Roster on Paper: Record Potential

RugbyMuffin

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And I think that about does it.

I would be downright shocked to see the Cardinals bring in anything more than a blocking tight end, or an extra veteran safety from here till game 1 of the upcoming season.

I understand that P.R. spin about this roster being "reloaded", it is wise to talk that way, IMO. You don't want to have the vibe around the organization that the upcoming season is already a wash. But, unless there are some incredible bounces, and luck this team is not making the playoffs. Thus this team is rebuilding. I don't care what the coaches, and team says, they gotta sell their product, but this organization is rebuilding.

Now, hold on! Hold on! No need to get the war torches, spears, and magic helmets. No need to call me the most negative fan ever, and certainly no need to got sick Mr. Green on me so he can tell me I should go die off somewhere for being such a HORRIBLE money paying fan of the team.

Just stating that I do not think this current roster is going to go to the playoffs. Winning is everything, I understand that, but winning is a process. For as much fun as 2008 and 2009 were, it was fleeting because it was pure luck and chance (like it many times is) that everything came together as it did. It was not a process, it was a, we fell ass-backwards into a HOF QB, and have 2 elite WR's that can carry this team.

Me ? I want some long term success. I think that, for what it is worth, there is a process going on to do that. Am I ready to stop calling the Cardinals the, "Same ol' Cardinals" ? Nope. The Cardinals have to show me, as Arians says, "on the grass". The front office has to show me that they will keep talent and not offload it the second they have success. So, there is absolutely NOTHING that at this current point and time that is going to change my opinion of this team and organization. Again, that is OK. I am happy with the direction, very happy actually, but that is all I can justify and give to the organization. That I like how they are handling things, understand why they did the things they did (fire Horton, and blow up last year's defense), and am exciting and somewhat confident in the up coming season.

What does all that blather mean ?

It means I think this team will hover around 8-8, and that is a HUGE accomplishment if this current roster, with all the turn over, with the complete and total clean out of the front office, GM, coaches, key players, etc., etc.

Before signing Carson Palmer, I gave this team 5 wins max, before the draft I gave this team 7 wins max.

After the draft, I have them for 8-8 next year, which would be a vast improvement over last year's complete debacle.

So, what do we have here in Arizona ?

1 - The Quarterback.

Did the Cardinals do the best they could with what was available this offseason ? I sure do.

A veteran QB whom I feel is due for some redemption. Carson Palmer is not an elite QB, and I don't think he ever was. Yet, he is close to it. Within a system, not only can he be effective, but he can thrive. Don't believe me ? Just look at some of the year's he had in Cincinnati when they had some support around him. The situation in Cincy became toxic, and while I have respect for Marvin Lewis, that front office is ...... strange. Not to mention the circus that Cincy become with Henry, Ochocinco, Houzmensah, etc., etc. Palmer's leaving of Cincy was weird, ONLY BECAUSE, he is a millionaire football player. Normally you don't hear about a NFL player who has put all his money in the right places and is "set for life". That is outside the norm, and personally, I think it is a good thing for us, and a good showing of the type of guy Palmer is. He put himself in the position where he was in charge.

Carson Palmer, DOES NOT HAVE TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

Just remember that. He left Cincy cause he didn't want to be there, and had that leverage. He was traded to Oakland, but didn't chose that either. His career in Oakland was solid, but filled with "bad decisions". I offer up my one excuse to Palmer's poor decisions. He was doing too much. The only other weapon on that offense was Darren McFadden, and he was hurt most of the time. It was all on Palmer, and any Cardinals fan will tell you, a shakey offensive line, and a bunch of do nothing running backs equals a poor offense. So why did the Raiders and Cardinals have comparible records. The Cardinals had much better WR's and worse QB's, and the Raiders had much better QB, and worse WR's. Neither had a good offensive line (edge to Raiders), and neither had good RB's.

Thus Carson Palmer FINALLY, FINALLY goes somewhere he chooses. And again, Carson Palmer WANTS to be here, or he simply would not come to AZ. Remember he is set for life, he can leave whenever he wants.

Thus I give a couple of wins to this team cause the combination of Palmer, the solid running back group, and improvement in the wide receivers he has to work with, will equate to an offense that look like it should be in the NFL.



2 - The Offensive Line

I am as impatient as the next fan, and as hopeful. But, again, like last year, we have to really see this line for what it is. Not only that, we have to realize the process that the Cardinals are taking.

Could we trade for Brandon Albert ? Sign him to a new contract ? Sure. But why in the heck would we do this.

Again, this team is going 8-8 AT BEST, and you add Albert, maybe it gets us a win or two AT BEAST. 10-6 ? Ain't going to get you in the playoffs in the NFC, not to mention that would be a HUGE stroke of luck for this team to get to 10-6.

Signing Brandon Albert, who was the LT for a horrible Kansas City team is going right back to the Daryn Colledge, and Adam Snyder mistakes of years before.

Thus what we have, is what we have, and again, while I like the direction things are going. This line is not there yet. It is not fault of the current regime. They were left with one of the worst group of interior linemen I have ever seen on a Cardinal roster....... that is saying something right there.


LT: Levi Brown
RT: Bobby Massie
OT: Nate Potter

Not the best set of tackles in the NFL, but it could be worse. By this time next year, at least one of the two tackle positions will be set. All signs point to Bobby Massie becoming a very good right tackle in the NFL. Nate Potter ? Call me crazy, but Nate Potter did about a good a job as I have ever seen Levi Brown do, and Levi Brown is what he is. For all the bashing of Levi Brown, that I do. The Cardinals did draft him, plug him into a starting role, and he has been on the field ever since. The production is not what you want from a 5th overall pick but he is what he is. Until there is someone better that is LT.

Not because Levi Brown is our left tackle, that is going to cause problems. The same problems we have seen from him throughout his 5 years in the league. He is not athletic for an NFL LT, he lacks fire, and he doesn't play to the whistle. So he gets beat around the edge, he gets beat to the spot in running plays, and just is a very average LT. Unless Nate Potter explodes onto the scene, snatches the job away from Levi Brown, and shows an improvement, Brown is our starter, and it is a weak point on the line.....yet not the weakest.


At guard, things of dramatically improved, and the dramatical improvement takes our group of guards from "getting dominated in a pee-wee football game" to maybe, just maybe NFL below average quality.

LG: Jonathan Cooper
RG: [I HAVE NO IDEA]

Cooper improves the pass blocking, run blocking, and depth on the interior line. He can play LG, RG, or OC and be the best on the roster, day 1 at those positions.

The interior line is just so bad. So bad that even with the chance to pick one of those OT's that were on the board at the top of the draft, I still thought that the Cardinals HAD TO go guard.

So, right guard, quite possibly the least important spot on an offensive line, yet the Cardinals are so unbelievably poor talent wise at the position right now, it will be the weak link on this line.

Daryn Colledge? I dunno, maybe he shows something next season, but he is pretty poor. When he is not strong enough, he is not quick enough, when he is not quick enough, he is not strong enough. Guy gives good sound bites but for his salary he should be a hell of a lot better at his position.

A change to that position ? I don't think so. Not this season. Unless Daryn Colledge has actually regressed from his poor play last season, I cannot see him not playing the other guard position.

Earl Watford ? Has a long way to go. Great potential, but he is a project. If he starts mid-way through the season, that will be great for this football team.

Senio Kelemete ? Blame Whiz and Grimm, but when you cannot get on the field before Rich Ohrnberger that is about as big a red flag as I can give a person in the NFL.

If Chilo Rachal ends up starting.....panic. He is a 1/4 step above the recently released Adam Snyder.

The real wild card, would be seeing Nate Potter put at right guard. To speculate a little bit on this thought, cause the effects of this what be an immense positive for this team, this would be the most exciting of the options. Nate Potter is a good athlete, and has good size to play in this scheme. Call me crazy, but if the Cardinals hit on Watford, Potter succeeds at guard, then they could move Cooper to center, and now you are talking about improving one more position on the line, that being LT. It is a wild card situation, with a lot of IF, and BUT in there, but you cannot tell me that is not a ideal situation.

Finally, the little bit of news that seems to be forgotten from last year. Sendlein has a challenge ahead of him this season. He ended last year on the IR with a torn MCL. How will Sendlein come back from that injury? I think he will be better in a zone blocking scheme but I have alway been questionable on Sendlein and his abilities.

Thus when you look at it, the Caridnals, on paper, right now, have 3 guys returning on the offensive line for this up coming season, and all three have HUGE question marks on them. Yeah, the Cardinals seem to have improved their offensive line, but in reality it is 2 out of the 5 positions.

It is will be better this year, but again, it will be the weak point that holds this offense back. I give a tip of hat to the current regime. I think they invested in the offensive line, but 1 year of investment rarely makes up for 5 years of neglect.

So, while there is improvement, the offensive line is still the weak link. Thus it is the top reason why this team max'es out at 8-8.


3- The Defense

The debate will be year long on Bowles vs. Horton. I am in the group that: A. Thinks last year's defense was elite, and special. B. Horton was the #1 reason for that.

Say what you will, and rage against the machine all your want. Bruce Arians took full responsibility for Horton being fired. He wants this to be HIS team. That is also the reason why some key veterans got released. I mean, how else do you justify releasing Adrian Wilson, and then signing Yeremiah Bell who is a year older ?

Maxing out at 8-8 ? Well here is reason number two. The defense from last year is gone. This is a new defense with new players, new schemes and new philosophies.

I have saved this statement for this section. I absolutely LOVE that Arians and company invest on the line of scrimmage. The Cardinals have a very stable, and highly talented defensive line, and they still went out in free agency and brought in even more talent.

Our defensive line group is stacked. Just stacked. I see no problems there.

The cornerback group is also stacked with talent. The depth, and the talent is going to give the Cardinals all the skill they need.

The concerns ? Linebacker and safety.

At least with the linebacking group, I see some direction. Daryl Washington acting like a complete fool is crushing. I have a lot of confidence in one Reggie Walker but he is no Daryl Washington. As for Washington himself, I worry more about the work he is putting into his football career based on the lack of respect he has given the situation he is in. Very serious & public domestic disputes, and the inability to stop smoking pot for another 7 years max is worrisome. I mean if he is not taking the amazing opporunity he is given seriously then you question his preparation for the season.

I think Kevin Minter was a quite steal in the draft. I, just like most draft guys, never gave him his due. He was always on my draft lists but never came up the top guy in the second round. That being said, he is a hell of a inside linebacker. He is a monster against the run, like we have yet to see out of a Cardinal SILB. Jasper Brinkley was an upgrade from Paris Lenon, and Minter will be an upgrade from Brinkley.

As for the outside linebacker position ? I think the Cardinals have a good group of outside linebackers. I think the group of Acho, Alexander, Schofield, and Okafor is as good a group as the Cardinals have had at the position. There is one big problem. No pass rushing specialist. Schofield is coming off ANOTHER injury. Schofield is pretty poor against the run, and if he loses what little pass rushing ability he has, then I just don't see a roster spot for him. Why keep him other then not having anybody better ? My personal favorite longshot this year is Dan Giordano. If there is anyone on the roster that may take a spot from Schofield it could be him.....if not more for the fact that Scofield's skills have regressed then Giordano being that good.

Safety........................................................ I dunno, I have to see the scheme, I have to see how they are used, cause right now, if I am playing the Cardinals ? THROW IT DEEP!

They lack OLB'er pass rush, and who knows about generating a pass rush with Todd Bowles scheme.

After that, we have a 35 year safety coupled with Rashad Johnson whom I am more comfortable as a role player then a starter. Tyrann Matheui ? Is a safety in name more then I see him being a pure safety.

To hope Tony Jefferson to come in as a UDFA and be effective this year is a little bit much.

I know it sounds crazy, but I would be one to throw a 1 year contract out to Charles Woodson, if not for leadership and mentoring more than anything.

These safeties are going to struggle, and with hope they are going to be better the last 8 games of the season, then the 1st eight where I can see some big plays killing this team consistently.

Finally, for a little tidbit. When I look down the road to the future, and look at the safeties we have on hand, and look at the cornerbacks we have on hand.....you heard it here first. Patrick Peterson is going to be a safety sooner rather than later.


So what does this all mean ? It means the Cardinals have a good, stable foundation of players. I think as a fan it is important to see this team for what it is, and regardless of the PR, realize the organization is rebuilding. What is rebuilding ? It is sifting through players to see who fits and who does not, IMO. It is not the end of the world if a player fails, and gets replace on the depth chart, actually, that is what you want to happen. You want have as many holes, and question marks filled by this season's end as possible.

So, instead of complaining about the lack of a top 15 LT, concentrate on the fact the Cardinals are setup to address the interior line. If they get at least 2 out of the three interior positions set for next season, that is a big deal.

Instead of complaining about the lack of a pass rushing OLBer, concentrate on the fact the Cardinals are going to get at least 2 good all around OLBers to rely on for next season, that is a big deal.

Instead of complaing about the lack of safety talent on the team, concentrate on the fact the Cardinals are going to get there cornerback group down for next season.

8-8 ? Yeah, it sounds bad, but not when you compare it to what was the situation at the end of last season. If this team goes 8-8, in this division, in this conference, then we should be really happy, and hopeful for the season following.

So, enjoy the process I say. It still sucks to lose, and it is frustrating, but when you see it relative to the process it is not that bad.

And remember it is 8-8 AT BEST. 10 loses this season ? That has a good chance of happening, but a competitive 10 loss season where holes are filled, and questions are answered is a positive.

At least for his poster.
 

Vermont Maverick

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Good stuff, Rugby.

I am warming to the idea of Potter as the RG. I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it because he seems to have LT feet, and I am not sure about his anchoring ability against DTs. But if he has added some strength, and he is one of our 5 best, I would like to see him get a chance to play and develop. It seems he would have the ability to pull in the run game. I don't know what I ultimately think of Cooper at Center, just looking at his skill set, he looks SO good at guard.

While I will not sit here and say Levi is elite, I think you are selling him short in the run game. He is very good at that aspect of the game.

I also have noticed the roster. The Cards have not given out 24, and I don't believe they will this year. I like the respect that shows for AW.
 

mwanamatapa

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Not sure how happy they are with the d-line, there's been talk of them bringing in Sedrick Ellis DT to bolster it.
 

BW52

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Still need more D-line options.A declining Dockett with a big salary is a worry.Even DD can`t fight age.
 

WildBB

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I am looking forward actually, to seeing what Levi can do with some real coaching help and scheme help.

Also looking forward to what that left side of the line can now do running the football.

We don't need Brandon Albert here. That I agree with.

Injuries play a key part in the game and season. It's time for Seattle and SF to get their over burden of some. :p

But I like this teams' overall depth. We've got 53 who can go in and get good results, I believe.
 

Catfish

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Very nice job Muffin. I think your analysis is spot-on. Simply put, as you so wisely summarized concerning the O-line, we improved two of the five slots. That IS, however a huge improvement from what was, and if that helps the run game while cementing the interior pass protection, we will have won a great battle. At least if the tackles force the speed rush to loop outside, we may now have a pocket for Palmer to step up into.

As for the defense, like you I really like the talent and depth at D-line and Corner back. The worst part of the 'D' IS Daryl Washington's fall from grace. Sadly, he WAS the bulk of the pass rush for the Cardinals last year, and we more than likely did not replace even his production by adding Okafor to the mix. His loss, even if it is just for the initial 4 games, is going to be crucial to this defense. He WAS the spy who could cover Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick from sideline to sideline, and for that alone, he will be sorely missed. To lose his pass rushing ability too, is almost unthinkable. After all, he did have 9 sacks last season. This will be one huge set-back for our defense this year, (and maybe for years to come), because he was such a wonderfully gifted players who was only nearing his prime. He will not be easily replaced, should his situation worsen, (and that is at least reasonably likely to occur). His kind of talent is not found more than once a decade or so.

I like the tentative bright spots you hinted at with Giordano and Jefferson coming in as UDFA's. No, they won't likely fill slots on the 'D' this year, but they could project to becoming solid performers in the near future.

All in all I feel that BA/Keim did a remarkable job of rebuilding/tooling this year. It's a shame that D-Wash didn't take care of his business like he should have, because this might have been something very special to see shaping up. As it is, I believe that all our defenders will benefit from the techniques taught by this coaching staff, and most will improve as tacklers, and that can't hurt anything.

I also see 8-8 as a possibility, and after all the years of losing football we have endured, that is a positive for me, because if this staff and FO continue to perform like they so far have, then 8-8 might just happen to be the floor of what we will see down the road, when they get the chance to complete their re-tooling effort. THAT would certainly be a welcome change, to see long term winning football here in the valley.
 

Duckjake

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Carson Palmer is not an elite QB, and I don't think he ever was.

3 seasons over 4000 yards passing. 32 TD passes in one season. Top 10 in yards last season. Top 10 in 40+ yard pass completions. Bottom 10 in sacks.

The only things holding Palmer back from being elite are his TD/INT ratio and winning seasons. I don't hold the wins against him like others do. Warner's last 8 NFL seasons Kurt was 36-44 as a starter.

On the other hand I do wonder why Oakland couldn't score more given the numbers Palmer posted. They were almost as inept at putting points on the board the 2nd half of the season as the Cardinals were.
 

WildBB

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I like the tentative bright spots you hinted at with Giordano and Jefferson coming in as UDFA's. No, they won't likely fill slots on the 'D' this year, but they could project to becoming solid performers in the near future.

Jefferson will have a big chip on his shoulder with something to prove.

Everyone is forgetting about Justin Bethel as well. He could take another step forward this season. He's showed some promise. He can make some plays.
 

PJ1

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Nice write up Rugby. I believe we will improve on the win total from last year but not by much. I do believe we will be far more competitive and should finish the season feeling confident for the following year.

I am looking for some big things from Housler and finally having a semblance of a running game. The Dwash loss will in fact be devastating to the D but we have added enough to keep it respectable.

Key thing for me is I wasn't looking forward to next season before free agency and the draft. Now I am really looking forward to seeing what this team can do.
 

Cheesebeef

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3 seasons over 4000 yards passing. 32 TD passes in one season. Top 10 in yards last season. Top 10 in 40+ yard pass completions. Bottom 10 in sacks.

The only things holding Palmer back from being elite are his TD/INT ratio and winning seasons.

those are two pretty HUGE things when looking at a QB, especially since the year he left Cincy, a rookie QB helped completely turn the team around and took them to back to back playoff appearances.
 

jeeperaz

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I think it's near impossible to look at our roster and make any type of accurate prediction.

If we only had the last 2 seasons to judge Fitz, what would we think of his talent? I guess Im trying to say that I don't think we know what we have.

While I'm not trying to compare our personnel to that of the 49'ers during the Mike Singletary years, look at what the Harbaugh coaching change did for that team. It's easy to say now the talent was there prior to JH taking over... but I would argue it wasn't so obvious at the time. Outside of Willis, Gore and Davis there just wasn't a whole lot special going on over there.

I truly believe our terrible offensive coaching the past few years caused the players to look/perform worse than they are... on both sides of the ball. Who knows how bad our o-line really is. Might we have an explosive running game in the waiting? Are Floyd and Housler going to have break out seasons? Can our defense be even better by virtue of not having to be on the field so much? With the right coaching... you never know.


:homer mode off
 

az jam

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Interesting analysis at this early part of the football year (i.e. post draft).
Really hard to make predictions as so very much can and will happen during training camp and the actual season. Bottom line for me is that I am much more optimistic with GM Keim and HC Arians running the show than I was with Graves and Whis. I think we will have an exciting team to watch while last year's offense was one of the worst that I have ever seen. Hopefully that will add up to more wins.
 

Dr. Jones

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I know how hard it can be to keep a level head after the draft completes (Maybe not the OP since he seems pretty level headed). The kool-aid is flowing and everyone's eyes become bigger than their stomach.

Truth is..... We are a better team in a better division. The top two teams in our division might just be the class of the entire NFC. With that being said, our best hope is 3rd place and an outside shot at the 2nd wild card birth. Unfortunately, our schedule starts and ends rough. Then you factor in the teams we play in the middle (Houston, NO, & Atlanta come to mind) and you have to conclude the following:

Our Ceiling has to be 7 or 8 wins. And our floor has to be 2 to 3. So after you shake out the fluke win factor and uncontrollable injuries, you find yourself with a 5 to 6 win team.
 
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Goldfield

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I think it's near impossible to look at our roster and make any type of accurate prediction.

If we only had the last 2 seasons to judge Fitz, what would we think of his talent? I guess Im trying to say that I don't think we know what we have.

While I'm not trying to compare our personnel to that of the 49'ers during the Mike Singletary years, look at what the Harbaugh coaching change did for that team. It's easy to say now the talent was there prior to JH taking over... but I would argue it wasn't so obvious at the time. Outside of Willis, Gore and Davis there just waiisn't a whole lot special going on over there.

I truly believe our terrible offensive coaching the past few years caused the players to look/perform worse than they are... on both sides of the ball. Who knows how bad our o-line really is. Might we have an explosive running game in the waiting? Are Floyd and Housler going to have break out seasons? Can our defense be even better by virtue of not having to be on the field so much? With the right coaching... you never know.


:homer mode off
this is how I feel. I want to be very
Optimistic but I have not seen what this coaching staff can do.

There is a reason they play the games. Everyone is penciling in Seattle and niners as top dawgs but things change, injuries happen. We have improved this team a lot imo. Other than safety.
 
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Duckjake

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those are two pretty HUGE things when looking at a QB, especially since the year he left Cincy, a rookie QB helped completely turn the team around and took them to back to back playoff appearances.

Sure and the St.Louis Rams were 12-4 with Mark Bulger at QB and Warner sitting. NE was 11-5 with Matt Cassel. The Steelers were 3-1 with Ben R suspended.

Meanwhile after his 2nd SB Warner was generating loss after loss. 3 TDs and 11 interceptions in 2002! 5-11, 5-11, 5-11 every year. Then suddenly he turned it around at age 36.

So there's no reason Carson Palmer who threw for over 4000 yards and more TDs than Interceptions can't turn t around with the offensive gurus we are supposed to have at Warner and Hardy.

By the way don't overlook those top 10 defenses in Cincy the last two seasons. We went 11-2 with crap at QB thanks to our defense.

I sure wish the Cards had been able to get Dalton. He'd have been a perfect guy to help straighten out the Double Deuce.
 
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HotSauce

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I look for the defense to take a step back without Horton while we find out if Bowles is a legit defensive coordinator. And especially, if Washington has to miss more than 4 games. IMO, offensive coordinators around the league might be licking their chops at creating matchups vs. just about everyone else in the LB core.

Carson Palmer is an upgrade, but even at his best, he's not even close to elite / Kurt Warner to me. Just a good QB when given time.
 

52brandon

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I understand your point, I do. But I don't expect as bad a season as you. Our division games will likely be the hardest. But I think we really have a good roster, and a great staff to get the best out of them... it'll take time for them all to click, but I think 8-8 is a reasonable expectation
 

52brandon

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I look for the defense to take a step back without Horton while we find out if Bowles is a legit defensive coordinator. And especially, if Washington has to miss more than 4 games. IMO, offensive coordinators around the league might be licking their chops at creating matchups vs. just about everyone else in the LB core.

Carson Palmer is an upgrade, but even at his best, he's not even close to elite / Kurt Warner to me. Just a good QB when given time.

I look forward to seeing Minter crush the ones dumb enough to go there. The little bastard was a tackling machine last year
 

HotSauce

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I look forward to seeing Minter crush the ones dumb enough to go there. The little bastard was a tackling machine last year

Versus the run perhaps. But, I'm referring to these guys, including Minter vs. the pass as you can't crush who you can't keep up with or catch.
 
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RugbyMuffin

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Versus the run perhaps. But, I'm referring to these guys, including Minter vs. the pass as you can't crush who you can't keep up with or catch.

Hmmmm... That is a good point. While I like Reggie Walker he is not known for his coverage ability
 
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