Rostered Players w/ Potential to be Traded

OP
OP
Chopper0080

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
28,261
Reaction score
40,231
Location
Colorado
Great points. But the guys we want to trade aren’t surpluses, they just stink.
Slight disagreement.

Isabella does stink but I don't think anyone expected Moore AND Dortch to look as good as they do. If Dortch was the zero he has been so far in the league with other teams, Isabella would be tougher to part with.

Same for Kirk. He isn't bad, but he looks different when you have Moore looking amazing for a role in the slot which is where we thought Kirk would be. Now the question becomes, can you afford to keep Moore on the bench in favor of Kirk in 3WR sets? He looks different for a team like Philly who is has struggled to find WRs and may value a vet who can play outside and inside right away for the year while their young WRs develop.

Hicks is meh unless you are adding him to a young LB room and you are willing to use him on early downs only. We have not spot because of having just given his spot to an unproven rookie after asking him to take a pay cut. The funny part is that adding a guy like Hicks to a young LB room is great but demoting him is where it gets sticky.

Justin Murray has a bunch of starts as a average to below average player. That isn't great unless you are worried about not having a player who can play both T and G and sometimes reach an average level of production. He is also cheap. Josh Jones, Sean Harlow and Max Garcia make him a bit more expendable than originally thought. Harlow may also be available as he is on a one year deal vs Murray who is on a 2 year deal.
 

AZman5103

Hall of Famer
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Posts
1,673
Reaction score
1,767
Location
Idaho
Kirk has value to someone, and if we shopped him I guarantee we could get a late round pick. Kirk for Ertz makes sense for both teams. If we have to throw in a late round pick on our side I would still do it
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,561
Reaction score
15,798
Location
Plainfield, Il.
I guess I will answer this since I started the thread. It isn't about our "trash" being "treasure" to someone else. It is about a team being willing to gamble on a player for a player they may be trying to move or a player who will be potentially cut.

Example. KC has 4 TEs they like. They probably aren't going to roster them all. Why not trade one to get something back and if the player doesn't work on that team, they can always add him back on the PS later. It is a very low risk move.

Another example. Maybe the Eagles KNOW they are not going to re-sign Miles Sanders and they really like the group of Gainwell, Howard, and BScott. Is it better to hold onto a player they know they are going to get rid of when they can acquire a player like Hicks or Kirk who could potentially fill an area of weakness on their roster?

Broncos has 5 RBs and probably will only carry 4.

David Njoku is a mystery.

Could the Chargers be interested in an inexpensive swing tackle in Justin Murray for a TE or fringe EDGE player.

Etc...

There are just many situations that arise where a team evaluates their roster and finds a surplus of depth at one position group which they will be unable to keep.
I get your concept, but at this point I think most teams would just wait for the final cut down dates.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
22,422
Reaction score
40,865
Location
UK
Slight disagreement.

Isabella does stink but I don't think anyone expected Moore AND Dortch to look as good as they do. If Dortch was the zero he has been so far in the league with other teams, Isabella would be tougher to part with.

Same for Kirk. He isn't bad, but he looks different when you have Moore looking amazing for a role in the slot which is where we thought Kirk would be. Now the question becomes, can you afford to keep Moore on the bench in favor of Kirk in 3WR sets? He looks different for a team like Philly who is has struggled to find WRs and may value a vet who can play outside and inside right away for the year while their young WRs develop.

Hicks is meh unless you are adding him to a young LB room and you are willing to use him on early downs only. We have not spot because of having just given his spot to an unproven rookie after asking him to take a pay cut. The funny part is that adding a guy like Hicks to a young LB room is great but demoting him is where it gets sticky.

Justin Murray has a bunch of starts as a average to below average player. That isn't great unless you are worried about not having a player who can play both T and G and sometimes reach an average level of production. He is also cheap. Josh Jones, Sean Harlow and Max Garcia make him a bit more expendable than originally thought. Harlow may also be available as he is on a one year deal vs Murray who is on a 2 year deal.

I often think fans don't account for scheme. Jordan Hicks played best in a 4-3. He simply doesn't look comfortable in our 3-4. I still think he has value to a team with the right system.

Same with Kirk. This scheme sucks for him. We largely have him running curls and comebacks to the sticks with the occasional post. I don't know why because a lot of his best work at A&M and his first 2 years here was YAC. We used to give him a bunch of bubble screens which he was good at and just stopped last year.

All these guys can make it somewhere if used correctly.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,357
Reaction score
29,703
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I often think fans don't account for scheme. Jordan Hicks played best in a 4-3. He simply doesn't look comfortable in our 3-4. I still think he has value to a team with the right system.

Same with Kirk. This scheme sucks for him. We largely have him running curls and comebacks to the sticks with the occasional post. I don't know why because a lot of his best work at A&M and his first 2 years here was YAC. We used to give him a bunch of bubble screens which he was good at and just stopped last year.

All these guys can make it somewhere if used correctly.
I fully expect Hicks to stick here this season and be productive. Isaiah Simmons could very well be our second- or third-best pass rusher. The first series of the Red and White practice had Hicks, Collins, and Simmons on the field at the same time.
 
OP
OP
Chopper0080

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
28,261
Reaction score
40,231
Location
Colorado
I fully expect Hicks to stick here this season and be productive. Isaiah Simmons could very well be our second- or third-best pass rusher. The first series of the Red and White practice had Hicks, Collins, and Simmons on the field at the same time.
With the personnel we have in our front 7, there is many different ways to implement different fronts.

A 4-3 w/ Hicks, Collins, and Simmons at LB and Jones and Watt at DE.

A 3-4 w/ Simmons outside and a 3/4 with Simmons inside.

So many guys have position flexibility it will be interesting to see if Vance takes advantage of it.

I will also admit that watching Simmons run down slot WRs brought back the S dream a bit.
 

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,224
Reaction score
14,211
I will also admit that watching Simmons run down slot WRs brought back the S dream a bit.
the play he made against KC on third down was sooo good. Its one of those invisible on the stat sheet plays: a tackle for a 4 yard gain on 3rd and 7 (IIRC) -- but it matters.
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,791
Reaction score
9,602
Location
milan-italy
I often think fans don't account for scheme. Jordan Hicks played best in a 4-3. He simply doesn't look comfortable in our 3-4. I still think he has value to a team with the right system.

Same with Kirk. This scheme sucks for him. We largely have him running curls and comebacks to the sticks with the occasional post. I don't know why because a lot of his best work at A&M and his first 2 years here was YAC. We used to give him a bunch of bubble screens which he was good at and just stopped last year.

All these guys can make it somewhere if used correctly.
Beside the scheme, Jordan Hicks level of play decreased a lot compared to his days in Philly
Never seen a player losing so much speed at 28
 
Last edited:

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,400
Reaction score
4,144
Location
Monroe NC
I would send Hicks and Kirk to Philly for Ertz. I think Ertz got a bad rap for just one bad season filled with injuries. I believe he can add a lot to our TE position and the offense.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
22,422
Reaction score
40,865
Location
UK
I fully expect Hicks to stick here this season and be productive. Isaiah Simmons could very well be our second- or third-best pass rusher. The first series of the Red and White practice had Hicks, Collins, and Simmons on the field at the same time.

I think the Cards want to keep him for sure but they did give him permission for a trade so if someone comes in with a decent offer it's going to be tough for them to say know without serious pissing Hicks off.

I do think Vallejo can take those snaps too if Hicks goes.
 

Rohinaz

All Star
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Posts
553
Reaction score
622
Location
Scottsdale
I would send Hicks and Kirk to Philly for Ertz. I think Ertz got a bad rap for just one bad season filled with injuries. I believe he can add a lot to our TE position and the offense.
Why? we need Hicks and Kirk. Im all for adding Ertz, but I dont think we should leave ourselves vulnerable at 2 other spots. Hicks is leading all our LBs in tackles. Kirk has made a bunch of great plays this year. I would offer up future picks or isabella
 

HomerPimpson

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Posts
1,312
Reaction score
2,770
Location
Phoenix
What team exactly wants Isabella? He's literally worth nothing in trade value.

He's so bad the entire team said yeah sit there and collect your check and then you're gone.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,561
Reaction score
15,798
Location
Plainfield, Il.
I would send Hicks and Kirk to Philly for Ertz. I think Ertz got a bad rap for just one bad season filled with injuries. I believe he can add a lot to our TE position and the offense.
Uh no. Philly if interested would get a 6th.
 
OP
OP
Chopper0080

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
28,261
Reaction score
40,231
Location
Colorado
The players they have that would be expendable are Isabella and Devon Kennard. Both are under-contract, play valuable positions, and are under-utilized. The argument is that Isabella has shown nothing and Kennard is expensive relative to his production but if you are a bad team with cap space they may be worth giving up a player you are not intending to re-sign for.

Kirk is a FA and will be valuable to our comp formula if he signs elsewhere as he should be coming off a productive year. I don't see a TE on the market good enough that you would sell low on Kirk for. Same with Hicks. His role in Arizona is greater than his trade value would bring.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,476
Reaction score
14,619
Talking about realistic TE targets, former fan favorite Dan Arnold already has half has many catches this year split between two teams than he had all of last year!

If you're not going to get a clear upgrade like a Geseki/Ertz, Dan Arnold would be a nice cheap addition, and far better than anything else we have on the roster.
 

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,224
Reaction score
14,211
alking about realistic TE targets, former fan favorite Dan Arnold already has half has many catches this year split between two teams than he had all of last year!
im not a fan of trading assets for Dan Arnold

i think some portion (not all, not even most, but a decent portion) of last years offensive struggles had to do with Maxx (or, a suitably good blocker, competent pass catcher) being out of the lineup

teams play a light box, and Maxx is a good blocker in the run game -- so advantage in running the ball. Forces defenses to choose personnel.

Arnold is a poor blocking, king sized WR who gives no run game advantage. Teams treat him like a big WR and feel free to play nickel with him in the game.
 

unseenaz

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Posts
6,797
Reaction score
5,582
Location
Gilbert
dan arnold lead jacksonville in targets and receiving yards this weekend, no chance jacksonville is gonna trade him so shortly after acquiring him.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,476
Reaction score
14,619
im not a fan of trading assets for Dan Arnold

i think some portion (not all, not even most, but a decent portion) of last years offensive struggles had to do with Maxx (or, a suitably good blocker, competent pass catcher) being out of the lineup

teams play a light box, and Maxx is a good blocker in the run game -- so advantage in running the ball. Forces defenses to choose personnel.

Arnold is a poor blocking, king sized WR who gives no run game advantage. Teams treat him like a big WR and feel free to play nickel with him in the game.
He has 15 catches this year already, what's your plan? Just not play a TE? Give reps to Darrell Daniels?

You wouldn't trade a conditional 6th or 7th to add another familiar weapon at a position of desperate need?
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
22,422
Reaction score
40,865
Location
UK
Foster Moreau is another one to consider. Doesn't see much of the field with Waller. Raiders raved about him in the offseason. Was good at LSU. Blocker first, receiver 2nd but can do both. Would be a great TE2 when Maxx is back. Plus, it's the Raiders. We always get a sweet deal.

Also Tyler Kroft from the Jets.
 
Last edited:

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,224
Reaction score
14,211
He has 15 catches this year already, what's your plan? Just not play a TE? Give reps to Darrell Daniels?
give up assets for a TE who can block as well as serve as a safety outlet
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Conner
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
36,483
Reaction score
34,436
Location
Charlotte, NC
Foster Moreau is another one to consider. Doesn't see much of the field with Waller. Raiders raved about him in the offseason. Was good at LSU. Blocker first, receiver 2nd but can do both. Would be a great TE2 when Maxx is back. Plus, it's the Raiders. We always get a sweet deal.

Also Tyler Kroft from the Jets.
The issue with Moreau would probably be compensation. The Raiders would probably want at least a 3rd rounder for a cost controlled asset. Then again, Moreau might actually be worth it.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
552,669
Posts
5,401,772
Members
6,313
Latest member
50 year card fan
Top