Rumor: Bledsoe trade to Lakers

[Neo]

Hornaceck played PG in college and did pretty well paired up with KJ and John Stockton.

 

[Covert Rain]

Hornaceck played PG in college and did pretty well paired up with KJ and John Stockton.

Right but Hornaceck was a SG in the NBA. He never was a primary PG like Dragic. In other words, I don't think teams looked at JH as a PG like they do Dragic. If you ask many teams (i.e. the Pacers) what they would bring Dragic in for...how many would play him at SG as his primary position?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think offensively at least Dragic and Thomas have the ability to spot up and be good off the ball and on defense Dragic and Bledsoe both have the ability to match up pretty well with bigger guards. I see no reason why this combination of 3 guards can't be successful even in the post season. The key for us is going to be finding someone who can do well protecting the rim. Maybe that is Plumlee or Len or a combination of both. The guards should at least be able to slow down the penetration well enough to give the big guys time to get over to contest shots.

 

[KloD]

Dumars had ability to play both but I think he was widely regarded as a SG. I would be curios to see his effectiveness stats at both though. By the way I am not saying there are no player in the history of the NBA that couldn't play both positions. Even if the argument can be made he was a "true" PG that would be an exception and not the rule.

I fail to see the importance of fitting into the norm? Besides that the best ideas in life often fall outside the norm, it's clear the Suns are trying to build something different. That doesn't equate to worse. They want playmakers on both sides of the court. They have not completed their front court, it's going to take time. They seem to envision using two combo guards on the court at all times rather than a traditional PG and SG. I realize it's different and many people will insist on seeing it successful before they jump on board.

You ask for an example, while Stockton was the ideal example of a traditional PG, Hornacek was a PG converted to a SG much like they are doing with Dragic. Of course Thompson and Bledsoe are shoot first PG's and not close to the playmaker of a Stockton, but what the Suns are trying to do is somewhat similar to what the Jazz did with two guys that can create on either side of the court. Please don't turn this into my comparing the players themselves, I'm not. I'm only comparing the idea. I just see this as a version of that, not the same, but a concept based on it.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I fail to see the importance of fitting into the norm? Besides that the best ideas in life often fall outside the norm, it's clear the Suns are trying to build something different. That doesn't equate to worse. They want playmakers on both sides of the court. They have not completed their front court, it's going to take time. They seem to envision using two combo guards on the court at all times rather than a traditional PG and SG. I realize it's different and many people will insist on seeing it successful before they jump on board.

You ask for an example, while Stockton was the ideal example of a traditional PG, Hornacek was a PG converted to a SG much like they are doing with Dragic. Of course Thompson and Bledsoe are shoot first PG's and not close to the playmaker of a Stockton, but what the Suns are trying to do is somewhat similar to what the Jazz did with two guys that can create on either side of the court. Please don't turn this into my comparing the players themselves, I'm not. I'm only comparing the idea. I just see this as a version of that, not the same, but a concept based on it.

To add to this. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason Jeff got the job was because of his history of playing on successful teams that had 2 guards that can create and thus it might very well have been the vision of McD the entire time to have 2 combo guards on the floor together.

 

[Covert Rain]

I fail to see the importance of fitting into the norm? Besides that the best ideas in life often fall outside the norm, it's clear the Suns are trying to build something different. That doesn't equate to worse. They want playmakers on both sides of the court. They have not completed their front court, it's going to take time. They seem to envision using two combo guards on the court at all times rather than a traditional PG and SG. I realize it's different and many people will insist on seeing it successful before they jump on board.

You ask for an example, while Stockton was the ideal example of a traditional PG, Hornacek was a PG converted to a SG much like they are doing with Dragic. Of course Thompson and Bledsoe are shoot first PG's and not close to the playmaker of a Stockton, but what the Suns are trying to do is somewhat similar to what the Jazz did with two guys that can create on either side of the court. Please don't turn this into my comparing the players themselves, I'm not. I'm only comparing the idea. I just see this as a version of that, not the same, but a concept based on it.

The importance of fitting into the "norm" is that traditional lineups have proven to be more effective. Also, you are right in that you will have to prove that this approach produces long term success and playoff success. We already know playing two PG's can drum up wins. Just like 7 seconds or less did. I think it remains to be seen if this is actually a recipe for success but history is not on our side if your end game is deep playoff runs and a title.

I am not saying it's impossible just improbable. I am a Dragic fan but would prefer to see him play PG when Bledsoe is on the bench and fill in SG when Bledsoe comes back in and the SG heads to the bench.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Geez, you'd been more guarded in your strange hate of Bledsoe lately but not here... you really let fly.

An "undersized" sg who cant shoot or generate offense... yet the Suns are make a huge leap whenever he is in the game. So... either you're absolutely wrong about his skill set or you're absolutely wrong that he "defies nothing".

I'd go with both. First off, he can't shoot? 48% from the field, 36% from 3? Thats a guy who can't shoot? Not everyone can be Curry out there but Bledsoe is well above average as a shooter. Among starting PGs he trails only Curry, Paul and Calderon in TS%. He is ahead of Lillard, Lowry, Parker and every other starting PG in the league. But I suppose none of them can shoot either.

If you insist on calling him a SG (even though he logged virtually all his minutes at the point), he has a better TS% than Affalo, Stephenson, Klay Thompson, Kevin Martin... ect ect ect.

And he does not generate offense for other people? Here we are with 2 guards, only .4 apart in assists per game, both of them score first guys, you'd think it must have really hurt the guys around them... but oh... whats this, basically every guy on the team had a career year offensively. I suppose thats ALL on Dragic though, his 5.9 assists per game are the mark of a guy who makes everyone around him better, while Bledsoe's 5.5 are a clear sign of a player who makes people worse.

seriously. that one sentence basically read like "Bledsoe is a complete non-entity that does nothing to help the team"...even though this team was CLEARLY MUCH better with him on the floor.

 

[Covert Rain]

seriously. that one sentence basically read like "Bledsoe is a complete non-entity that does nothing to help the team"...even though this team was CLEARLY MUCH better with him on the floor.

In a league full of garbage watered down PG's....how could anybody be sad to have Bledsoe or Dragic on our team and argue their value is a bit much.

 

[BC867]

Dumars and Thomas.

The difference is that Dumars never played the Point ahead of Thomas when they were both in the lineup.

Last season, Dragic accepted the role of Shooting Guard whenever he was in the lineup with Bledsoe. Because Goran is the better outside shooter.

But Goran is also the better pure Point Guard. And Floor General. That is what bothers me in this 2-Point Guard plan.

Eric Bledsoe is a tweener. Except for the strength in his 6'1"-192 lb. body and outstanding defensive skill, he is a Leandro Barbosa. 'Good that he can play both positions, but lacking when playing one or the other.

And his defense, which would be great if the rest fell into place, is offset by his history of injuries.

Even if we could afford to match Goran's next contract to Eric's, there is the motivational side of it. Goran Dragic will know that as long as Bledsoe is on the floor (or on the active roster), he (Dragic) will not be playing his natural -- and best -- position.

In fact, contract wise, Goran will lose the opportunity to repeat as All NBA player if Eric isn't disabled. Will that affect his ability to get a maximum contract, whether with Suns or another team?

For those reasons, I would like to see Bledsoe move on, and officially turn the offense over to Steve Nash's successor, Goran Dragic.

 

[Phrazbit]

I cant believe Bledsoe and Dragic being able to function together is still a question...

You wanna question the money, fine, you wanna worry about the injuries... I think its overblown, but okay. To question whether Bledsoe and Dragic and be an effective pairing? They were phenomenal together, arguably the best back court in the entire league last season.

I do not question if Dragic is being held back or if he is better as a "true pg"... he isnt! Dragic IS a combo guard, he is not and never has been a facilitator. His role with Bledsoe last season made him a better player!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I cant believe Bledsoe and Dragic being able to function together is still a question...

You wanna question the money, fine, you wanna worry about the injuries... I think its overblown, but okay. To question whether Bledsoe and Dragic and be an effective pairing? They were phenomenal together, arguably the best back court in the entire league last season.

I do not question if Dragic is being held back or if he is better as a "true pg"... he isnt! Dragic IS a combo guard, he is not and never has been a facilitator. His role with Bledsoe last season made him a better player!

agreed.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The difference is that Dumars never played the Point ahead of Thomas when they were both in the lineup.

Last season, Dragic accepted the role of Shooting Guard whenever he was in the lineup with Bledsoe. Because Goran is the better outside shooter.

But Goran is also the better pure Point Guard. And Floor General. That is what bothers me in this 2-Point Guard plan.

Eric Bledsoe is a tweener. Except for the strength in his 6'1"-192 lb. body and outstanding defensive skill, he is a Leandro Barbosa. 'Good that he can play both positions, but lacking when playing one or the other.

And his defense, which would be great if the rest fell into place, is offset by his history of injuries.

Even if we could afford to match Goran's next contract to Eric's, there is the motivational side of it. Goran Dragic will know that as long as Bledsoe is on the floor (or on the active roster), he (Dragic) will not be playing his natural -- and best -- position.

In fact, contract wise, Goran will lose the opportunity to repeat as All NBA player if Eric isn't disabled. Will that affect his ability to get a maximum contract, whether with Suns or another team?

For those reasons, I would like to see Bledsoe move on, and officially turn the offense over to Steve Nash's successor, Goran Dragic.

Westbrook, Rose, Wade, Dragic, Oladipo, Curry-- all "tweeners" (or combo/scoring guards) by most accounts. That is where the league is right now.

BTW. According to ESPN's PER ratings #4 pg is Isaiah Thomas, the #8 pg is Eric Bledsoe. Goran Dragic is #3 on the list of SG's along with Gerald Green as the #8 SG.

 

[Sci Fi]

BC867,

We basically agree on the situation as it relates to the Suns. (I really could care less how many two guards systems have been succesful in the past. I think the point is silly.)

Yes, Dragic is the better player at both positions and yes, it is possible that playing again as he did last year could affect his future contract, but to me all that really matters is how will the Suns plays best as a team. I think this would also be Goran's perspective. He seems more than willing to put the team above all else.

And that is really the reason I have a problem with Bledsoe. Remember last year at the beginning of the season when it was supposed to be a 2 guard system that plan was to attack with outlet passes to either player and each would take turns running the team. Well, that never played out and I think it hurt the Suns because Bledsoe just doesn't run the team as well. There should have been a better balance.

And that's really a big reason I'm excited for Thomas. I think he will play very well with Dragic and be able to share offensive duties more equally. I love his attitude and his style is very similar to Dragic. A true system with 2 guards attacking at all times would be truly what Hornacek envisioned. So I agree. Bledsoe should move on.

 

[Sci Fi]

I cant believe Bledsoe and Dragic being able to function together is still a question...

You wanna question the money, fine, you wanna worry about the injuries... I think its overblown, but okay. To question whether Bledsoe and Dragic and be an effective pairing? They were phenomenal together, arguably the best back court in the entire league last season.

I do not question if Dragic is being held back or if he is better as a "true pg"... he isnt! Dragic IS a combo guard, he is not and never has been a facilitator. His role with Bledsoe last season made him a better player!

I really don't see anyone questioning if they can work together. I think most just think the money is better spent elsewhere.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I cant believe Bledsoe and Dragic being able to function together is still a question...

You wanna question the money, fine, you wanna worry about the injuries... I think its overblown, but okay. To question whether Bledsoe and Dragic and be an effective pairing? They were phenomenal together, arguably the best back court in the entire league last season.

I do not question if Dragic is being held back or if he is better as a "true pg"... he isnt! Dragic IS a combo guard, he is not and never has been a facilitator. His role with Bledsoe last season made him a better player!

yes

 

[BC867]

Dragic IS a combo guard, he is not and never has been a facilitator. His role with Bledsoe last season made him a better player!

Do you believe that either would have made All-NBA as a "Guard" and a "Combo Guard"?

Dragic was chosen because of what he did when Bledsoe was lost for most of the 2nd half of the season. He was our Point Guard. He was the Suns floor leader. Just as a good Point Guard is supposed to be.

I'll say it again . . . Dragic was chosen All-NBA because of what he did when Bledsoe was in street clothes.

He would not have risen to that level, nor would have Bledsoe, if they were sharing the role.

Just as SSOL, it's a gimmick. It is not the foundation to constant improvement.

Unfortunately, and until we see otherwise, it is what we expect from our Phoenix Suns, with two Finals appearances in 46 years.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Do you believe that either would have made All-NBA as a "Guard" and a "Combo Guard"?

Dragic was chosen because of what he did when Bledsoe was lost for most of the 2nd half of the season. He was our Point Guard. He was the Suns floor leader. Just as a good Point Guard is supposed to be.

I'll say it again . . . Dragic was chosen All-NBA because of what he did when Bledsoe was in street clothes.

He would not have risen to that level, nor would have Bledsoe, if they were sharing the role.

Just as SSOL, it's a gimmick. It is not the foundation to constant improvement.

Unfortunately, and until we see otherwise, it is our Phoenix Suns, with two playoff appearances in 46 years.

He made all-nba as a combo guard. Yes. He is listed at ESPN as a 2 guard. He is not the distributor that Steve Nash was and never will be. I am not really concerned about all-nba as I am about wins and losses and the Suns were a .500 team without Bledsoe (and would have been similar without Goran), but they won 2/3's of their games with both of them playing.

Its not a gimmick, they are a great tandem, since both of them can distribute, we pass better with both of them. Bledsoe is a way better defender and can cover players that Goran cannot handle. He makes up for Goran's deficiencies. I hate this little holdout that Bledsoe is having here, but if I had to choose between the two, all things being equal, I would choose Eric. He is the more complete player.

 

[Phrazbit]

BC867,

We basically agree on the situation as it relates to the Suns. (I really could care less how many two guards systems have been succesful in the past. I think the point is silly.)

Yes, Dragic is the better player at both positions and yes, it is possible that playing again as he did last year could affect his future contract, but to me all that really matters is how will the Suns plays best as a team. I think this would also be Goran's perspective. He seems more than willing to put the team above all else.

And that is really the reason I have a problem with Bledsoe. Remember last year at the beginning of the season when it was supposed to be a 2 guard system that plan was to attack with outlet passes to either player and each would take turns running the team. Well, that never played out and I think it hurt the Suns because Bledsoe just doesn't run the team as well. There should have been a better balance.

And that's really a big reason I'm excited for Thomas. I think he will play very well with Dragic and be able to share offensive duties more equally. I love his attitude and his style is very similar to Dragic. A true system with 2 guards attacking at all times would be truly what Hornacek envisioned. So I agree. Bledsoe should move on.

I read this stuff and I am just baffled...

I can keep pointing out all the stats that take an absolute dump on this nonsense... but whats the point?

 

[JCSunsfan]

I read this stuff and I am just baffled...

I can keep pointing out all the stats that take an absolute dump on this nonsense... but whats the point?

I agree. I am just done talking about this. To me its just so obvious.

 

[Phrazbit]

Do you believe that either would have made All-NBA as a "Guard" and a "Combo Guard"?

Dragic was chosen because of what he did when Bledsoe was lost for most of the 2nd half of the season. He was our Point Guard. He was the Suns floor leader. Just as a good Point Guard is supposed to be.

I'll say it again . . . Dragic was chosen All-NBA because of what he did when Bledsoe was in street clothes.

He would not have risen to that level, nor would have Bledsoe, if they were sharing the role.

Just as SSOL, it's a gimmick. It is not the foundation to constant improvement.

Unfortunately, and until we see otherwise, it is what we expect from our Phoenix Suns, with two Finals appearances in 46 years.

Yes, I think Dragic is a combo guard. He is not a facilitator, he never has been one, he never will be one. He is just as far from being a "true PG" as Bledsoe is.

I dont care about Dragic's individual honors, the TEAM played much much much better with the Bledsoe/Dragic pairing than without it, Dragic was having a career year even before Bledsoe got hurt. Wins make for finals appearances, not all-NBA awards.

 

[Phrazbit]

He made all-nba as a combo guard. Yes. He is listed at ESPN as a 2 guard. He is not the distributor that Steve Nash was and never will be. I am not really concerned about all-nba as I am about wins and losses and the Suns were a .500 team without Bledsoe (and would have been similar without Goran), but they won 2/3's of their games with both of them playing.

Its not a gimmick, they are a great tandem, since both of them can distribute, we pass better with both of them. Bledsoe is a way better defender and can cover players that Goran cannot handle. He makes up for Goran's deficiencies. I hate this little holdout that Bledsoe is having here, but if I had to choose between the two, all things being equal, I would choose Eric. He is the more complete player.

Exactly.

 

[Sci Fi]

I read this stuff and I am just baffled...

I can keep pointing out all the stats that take an absolute dump on this nonsense... but whats the point?

What stats are you even talking about?

If you're trying to compare who ran the team better, look at +/- when each was off the court. This difference was highlighted in the national media several times.

Sorry, I'm not even sure what you're saying.

 

[Covert Rain]

Unfortunately, and until we see otherwise, it is what we expect from our Phoenix Suns, with two Finals appearances in 46 years.

DING DING DING.

Nobody is even debating if they can work together or even have success together. Maybe the Suns know something the rest of the league doesn't. Because all the talk regarding Dragic by other teams has talked about him as their PG not SG.

 

[Phrazbit]

What stats are you even talking about?

If you're trying to compare who ran the team better, look at +/- when each was off the court. This difference was highlighted in the national media several times.

Sorry, I'm not even sure what you're saying.

I'm not surprised.

I'm talking about the pairing for the two, not one vs the other. We were much better with both, the stats make this abundantly clear. This is not an either/or. This is a TEAM, we were a much better team with both.

 

[Phrazbit]

DING DING DING.

Nobody is even debating if they can work together or even have success together. Maybe the Suns know something the rest of the league doesn't. Because all the talk regarding Dragic by other teams has talked about him as their PG not SG.

Well, if Bledsoe leaves and his role is filled by Thomas then we're only getting smaller and now Dragic, instead of focusing most of his energy on offense, is always going to be covering the oppositions best guard.

This is yet another confusing thing about the stance the 'let Bledsoe walk' crowd is taking. Dragic will not move back to point if Bledsoe goes, for the majority of his minutes he will stay in his current role of combo guard/SG, only with a much heavier defensive responsibility.