RUMOR - Cardinals one of several teams interested in Austin Hooper

[slanidrac16]

Why are you ignoring that we don’t have any starting players (and even not backups) signed at DE, OLB, ILB, and that's just defense?

The more we watch the team whittle down the cap with Fitz, Humphries, Shipley, Drake, and now the thought of Hooper... the more likely we are to be starting street free agents or late round picks at these positions.

We just don't have the money. We don't even have the money to improve over Thompson & Alford. Those guys will have to play a big role.

You're upgrading the rest of the car when it doesn't even have a transmission. I get that we want these other parts and want Kyler to have weapons, but we have to be smart and realize that no matter what, we still have to fill these roster spots and field a team.

Kyler scoring 35 points a game will mean nothing when our defense trots out there as #32 again.

Ummm. If we average 35 pts a game next year , sign me up, even with the same exact defense!

 

[Solar7]

Ummm. If we average 35 pts a game next year , sign me up, even with the same exact defense!

It's not the exact same defense. It would be a defense starting absolute castoffs at four key positions on defense if we wastefully spend.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

When is the last time we drafted a stud TE?

And how is BPA at a position of need not a good idea?

In terms of NEED, where would you rank TE on our roster?

for me, TE is outside of top 5 need

 

[Veer]

I've made it clear I'm against signing Hooper. Way too rich for a receiving TE without elite traits. We should rather invest in OL/DL.

That said, Jacob Hollister of the Seahawks is very similar to Hooper. Not the biggest, strongest or fastest. But they have the same body types, smooth athleticism in their routes and a pair of dependable hands. Hollister got no shot with the Pats and was picked up by the Seahawks. Replaced the often-injured Dissly very well down the stretch. If I had to make a comparison for Hollister it would indeed be Hooper. Idk if Hollister is a FA, but most likely I think so. That would be smart business on a 3 year deal that costs a fraction of Hooper.

 

[BritCard]

I recall in various arenas the propositions of “play to your strengths” or “enhance your strengths rather than expend more energy trying to fill your weaknesses.” I think it holds true with sports. First, identify your strength. Can you make that strength top in the field? If so, do that before trying to fill weaknesses. Weaknesses are weaknesses for a reason - they are more difficult to build up do to your specific circumstances. The cards strength at present is definitely the offense. It’s middle of the pack. But if they add top tier weapons to it the hope is it’s jumps to elite. If you ignore it to instead build an atrocious defense to mediocre you’re essentially left with a team that’s mediocre all over. It seems smarter to build to a side of the team to elite and then follow by building defense to mediocre. For those reasons and hoopers age and skill set I am all for signing him.

Through the last 8 games we scored 23.9 points per game. Which would have been good enough for 13th in the league.

In that same stretch we lost by a single score to the Rams, Steelers, 49ers twice and the Bucs. 3 of those we had the lead deep into the 4th and our defense couldn't stop them.

I could happily role with this offense as it is. Natural growth from Kliff, Kyler and several young players and more comfort with the scheme will see it above average.

Our defense however is trash and will costs us several wins if we don't spend major resources on it.

You wouldn't say to a boxer "You're great at punching. Lets do more punching and forget about the blocking stuff". Because it's hard to punch when your flat on your ass.

 

[BritCard]

I've made it clear I'm against signing Hooper. Way too rich for a receiving TE without elite traits. We should rather invest in OL/DL.

That said, Jacob Hollister of the Seahawks is very similar to Hooper. Not the biggest, strongest or fastest. But they have the same body types, smooth athleticism in their routes and a pair of dependable hands. Hollister got no shot with the Pats and was picked up by the Seahawks. Replaced the often-injured Dissly very well down the stretch. If I had to make a comparison for Hollister it would indeed be Hooper. Idk if Hollister is a FA, but most likely I think so. That would be smart business on a 3 year deal that costs a fraction of Hooper.

Good call. He is FA and would be a good cheap pickup. Had 350 yards last year in limited time and 3 TDs. I would much rather pay him $1.5m than pay Hooper $10m.

 

[Veer]

Good call. He is FA and would be a good cheap pickup. Had 350 yards last year in limited time and 3 TDs. I would much rather pay him $1.5m than pay Hooper $10m.

I'd pay Hollister even more. You can bet the Seahawks will be interested in keeping him. Dissly at this point has suffered a major injury almost everytime he stepped on the field. I'm not surprised at all the Seahawks are looking into Hooper. Hollister though has proven in the few games he's started that he is a legit weapon and has good chemistry with Russell Wilson.

I think Hollister could be worth a nice 2 or 3 year contract with more than 10m guaranteed. He was a draft sleeper of mine and I'm glad he finally got his chance to prove his outstanding talent.

 

[TheCardFan]

Hollister is a RFA - Seahawks will most likely put a 2nd round tender on him.

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I think you can get a guy like Hollister in the draft this year and I am excited to see what K2 can do with Dan Arnold.

 

[Veer]

Hollister is a RFA - Seahawks will most likely put a 2nd round tender on him.

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I think you can get a guy like Hollister in the draft this year and I am excited to see what K2 can do with Dan Arnold.

You right, the Seahawks won't let him walk after he revived their TE position down the stretch. However, Dan Arnold is an abysmal run blocker compared to Hollister or Hooper. And even those two aren't great blockers by any means, just serviceable ones. With Arnold you basically signal pass. Given the decent success KK found in the run game, I highly doubt we go away from it just for the sake of Air Raid. Dan Arnold will be on the field on 3rd downs and RZ passing situations mostly.

 

[Chopper0080]

In terms of NEED, where would you rank TE on our roster?

for me, TE is outside of top 5 need

Getting weapons for Murray is #2 behind protecting Murray. If I deem Hooper as the 2nd best FA receiving weapon behind Amari Cooper, that is a high priority.

 

[football karma]

would rather make a run at Hunter Henry of the Chargers

 

[wa52lz]

I'd pay Hollister even more. You can bet the Seahawks will be interested in keeping him. Dissly at this point has suffered a major injury almost everytime he stepped on the field. I'm not surprised at all the Seahawks are looking into Hooper. Hollister though has proven in the few games he's started that he is a legit weapon and has good chemistry with Russell Wilson.

I think Hollister could be worth a nice 2 or 3 year contract with more than 10m guaranteed. He was a draft sleeper of mine and I'm glad he finally got his chance to prove his outstanding talent.

Not sure that Hollister is any improvement over Maxx Williams. This year in he had 59 Targets and went 41-349 3tds, 8.5 yds/rec and 69.5% catch rate. Williams rookie year he was targeted 48 times and put up 32-268-1 8.4 yds/rec and 66.7% catch rate. After that he was hurt in 2016 and then 2017-2018 in Baltimore he was splitting time with Watson and Boyle and then Boyle, Andrews and Hurst. Then this year he was in an offense that didn't utilize the TE that much the first part of the year. If you look at is stats over the last 3 seasons- 54 Targets for 46-431-3 9.87 yds/rec and 85% catch rate. Very comparable to Hollister. There is nothing in their histories that would make me believe that being utilized the same one would be much better then the other. They're basically the same size and age (Williams is a year younger and 7lbs heavier), Williams seems to be the better blocker (at least by what has been written about them), Williams 40 time at the combine was 4.78 and Hollister ran 4.64 at his pro day.

 

[slanidrac16]

It's not the exact same defense. It would be a defense starting absolute castoffs at four key positions on defense if we wastefully spend.

What I’m saying is any offense scoring 35 points will make any defense better even if we had the same defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Through the last 8 games we scored 23.9 points per game. Which would have been good enough for 13th in the league.

In that same stretch we lost by a single score to the Rams, Steelers, 49ers twice and the Bucs. 3 of those we had the lead deep into the 4th and our defense couldn't stop them.

I could happily role with this offense as it is. Natural growth from Kliff, Kyler and several young players and more comfort with the scheme will see it above average.

Our defense however is trash and will costs us several wins if we don't spend major resources on it.

You wouldn't say to a boxer "You're great at punching. Lets do more punching and forget about the blocking stuff". Because it's hard to punch when your flat on your ass.

So you’re all in on mediocre on both sides of the ball, got it.


Your analogy really isn’t a good one. A boxer whose best shot at winning is a punchers chance shouldn’t spend their practice seeking to float like a butterfly and dance defensively around the ring. It wouldn’t enhance their chance to win. They need to be in close quarters. So instead of investing a LOT of time on defense they invest minimal amount of time required to cover up in close quarters to maximize their ability to knock out their opponent.

In other words, maximize the offense and put in a more modest investment on the defense to improve incrementally. And not incidentally there’s more variability in the performance and rankings of defenses from year-to-year so being so poor this past season isn’t hardwired for next year. Particularly given how young a lot of pieces were (three safeties all relatively young, rookie cb, rookie defensive lineman). So it may only take a couple smaller, but smart (I know, I know . . . Bluto) adds, and sone growth by the youth to get to mediocre.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'd pay Hollister even more. You can bet the Seahawks will be interested in keeping him. Dissly at this point has suffered a major injury almost everytime he stepped on the field. I'm not surprised at all the Seahawks are looking into Hooper. Hollister though has proven in the few games he's started that he is a legit weapon and has good chemistry with Russell Wilson.

I think Hollister could be worth a nice 2 or 3 year contract with more than 10m guaranteed. He was a draft sleeper of mine and I'm glad he finally got his chance to prove his outstanding talent.

Another name I like is Mycole Pruitt from the Titans. Yet, that would relay on Dan Arnold to develop into a better player that he currently is.

That could be dynamic with Williams, Pruitt, and Arnold.....I stress COULD

 

[RugbyMuffin]

What I’m saying is any offense scoring 35 points will make any defense better even if we had the same defense.

Its the NFL, you cannot be great in all areas. This current roster is centered around the offense, and the once mighty defense has been, impressively, dismantled into one of the worst in the league.

Best chance to win is to load up on offense and hope and pray the defense holds up enough.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

IMO, TE is one of the hardest positions to scout. Top-shelf generational prospects often end up being ordinary players or washing out of the NFL altogether. Meanwhile, George Kittle was a 5th round pick, and the greatest Cardinal of all time, Jim Dray, was drafted in the 7th round.

Approve this post. 100%

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't have sky high expectations. I'd just like to see what we have first.

I prefer to go shopping after I know what's in the cupboard, or I'm wasting money.

Agreed on Butler.

As for what is in bold, you must LOVE (sarcasm) Keim then. Man knows how to waste money. He is even better at getting rid of proven talent to waste more.

 

[BritCard]

So you’re all in on mediocre on both sides of the ball, got it.


Your analogy really isn’t a good one. A boxer whose best shot at winning is a punchers chance shouldn’t spend their practice seeking to float like a butterfly and dance defensively around the ring. It wouldn’t enhance their chance to win. They need to be in close quarters. So instead of investing a LOT of time on defense they invest minimal amount of time required to cover up in close quarters to maximize their ability to knock out their opponent.

In other words, maximize the offense and put in a more modest investment on the defense to improve incrementally. And not incidentally there’s more variability in the performance and rankings of defenses from year-to-year so being so poor this past season isn’t hardwired for next year. Particularly given how young a lot of pieces were (three safeties all relatively young, rookie cb, rookie defensive lineman). So it may only take a couple smaller, but smart (I know, I know . . . Bluto) adds, and sone growth by the youth to get to mediocre.

You are advocating to go all in on offense and just let the defense keep on sucking. Nobody makes the play offs that way.

I'm advocating for letting the offence remain top half of the league and bringing the defense up to match it. Resulting in a TEAM that is top half of the league and can make the playoffs.

 

[TheCardFan]

From PFF:

29. TE AUSTIN HOOPER
Hooper has developed into a solid receiving option, but he’s more of a dependable, complementary piece rather than a mismatch creator. Since 2016, Hooper has gained 75.5% of his receiving production on targets defined as holes in zones or underneath the defense (think drag routes, flat routes) — by far the highest percentage in the league. Add to it that Hooper has just a 58.9 receiving grade against single coverage since 2016, and it’s clear that his production has largely been a product of the situation in Atlanta. All that said, Hooper is a mid-tier run blocker who can take advantage of being surrounded by good playmakers on the outside, and he has value as a complementary piece in the passing game.

 

[TheCardFan]

FWIW

8. TE HUNTER HENRY
Since entering the league in 2016, there have been two constants in Henry’s career: injuries and production. When healthy, he’s one of the best receiving tight ends in the game, and his 90.5 receiving grade against single coverage is eighth-best in the league since 2016. Henry is also a solid run blocker, posting above-average seasons in two out of his three full years. Any team looking for his services is going to get a mismatch weapon who can win in-line, in the slot or on the outside. That versatility is extremely valuable in today’s NFL.

 

[BritCard]

From PFF:

29. TE AUSTIN HOOPER
Hooper has developed into a solid receiving option, but he’s more of a dependable, complementary piece rather than a mismatch creator. Since 2016, Hooper has gained 75.5% of his receiving production on targets defined as holes in zones or underneath the defense (think drag routes, flat routes) — by far the highest percentage in the league. Add to it that Hooper has just a 58.9 receiving grade against single coverage since 2016, and it’s clear that his production has largely been a product of the situation in Atlanta. All that said, Hooper is a mid-tier run blocker who can take advantage of being surrounded by good playmakers on the outside, and he has value as a complementary piece in the passing game.

Hell man, Keim sure to give him $10m now.

 

[Solar7]

What I’m saying is any offense scoring 35 points will make any defense better even if we had the same defense.

Maybe I shouldn't have said 35 points, since I was just trying to illustrate a point. The best offense in the league put up 33 PPG last year. The point is, we won't have the same defense because we don't have those players signed, and adding Hooper will break the bank at a non-need position.

I might be mixing you up with another poster, but I feel like you and I have had the discussion multiple times, or you've brought up that you don't really know who we have under contract very well. Only two DEs that took any snaps last year are on the roster. One played four games, the other is a 7th round pick. At OLB, we don't even have Cassius Marsh or Brooks Reed. We have Haason Reddick who is not a starting caliber player. Same with ILB. The medley of guys we tried to play there are unsigned.

Sign Austin Hooper and you have to get creative just get backup quality players in those spots. We will be fielding essentially the worst players in the league at those positions.

I implore you, go look up the roster and see how desperate the situation is.

 

[DumboD]

Maybe Arnold can add some weight and improve his blocking. He's listed at 6-6, 220. But it doesn't appear Hooper adds much more than Arnold and Maxx Williams combined. So I say pass and put the money in areas it's more badly needed....as has already been pointed out in this thread.

 

[Solar7]

So you’re all in on mediocre on both sides of the ball, got it.


Your analogy really isn’t a good one. A boxer whose best shot at winning is a punchers chance shouldn’t spend their practice seeking to float like a butterfly and dance defensively around the ring. It wouldn’t enhance their chance to win. They need to be in close quarters. So instead of investing a LOT of time on defense they invest minimal amount of time required to cover up in close quarters to maximize their ability to knock out their opponent.

In other words, maximize the offense and put in a more modest investment on the defense to improve incrementally. And not incidentally there’s more variability in the performance and rankings of defenses from year-to-year so being so poor this past season isn’t hardwired for next year. Particularly given how young a lot of pieces were (three safeties all relatively young, rookie cb, rookie defensive lineman). So it may only take a couple smaller, but smart (I know, I know . . . Bluto) adds, and sone growth by the youth to get to mediocre.

I don't think the argument is "be mediocre on both sides," but admit that you have to give your defense at least something to work with. It's not like we have the money to make "modest investments" on defensive holes if we're paying Hump, AQ, Drake, and figuring out the right tackle spot.

You fill up those salaries, add Hooper, and you're looking at, what, maybe $10 million left? To fill four starting and backup positions on the defense...? That's scary.

You're looking at hoping this team somehow develops so much offensive firepower with a new pass catching TE and, I dunno, a rookie WR, that we're going to just win shootouts. I don't see a team that has had success doing that in a while. Their defenses were at least something.