RUMOR - Cardinals one of several teams interested in Austin Hooper

[Solar7]

Its the NFL, you cannot be great in all areas. This current roster is centered around the offense, and the once mighty defense has been, impressively, dismantled into one of the worst in the league.

Best chance to win is to load up on offense and hope and pray the defense holds up enough.

Hope and pray isn't a great strategy when the defense was already 32nd and we're now arguing to make it worse so we can sign a TE, when our TEs played fine last year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't think the argument is "be mediocre on both sides," but admit that you have to give your defense at least something to work with. It's not like we have the money to make "modest investments" on defensive holes if we're paying Hump, AQ, Drake, and figuring out the right tackle spot.

You fill up those salaries, add Hooper, and you're looking at, what, maybe $10 million left? To fill four starting and backup positions on the defense...? That's scary.

You're looking at hoping this team somehow develops so much offensive firepower with a new pass catching TE and, I dunno, a rookie WR, that we're going to just win shootouts. I don't see a team that has had success doing that in a while. Their defenses were at least something.

Add Hooper on offense, and a receiving group of Fitzgerald, Kirk, Hooper, Cooper/Byrd, Isabella, and Butler doesnt look nearly as desperate.

In some ways it kills the idea of adding WR round one and then you can add cheaper talent through the draft.

Go Brown and then a young edge rusher round 2. Use the rest of the free agent dollars on guys like Vernon Butler and Jordan Jenkins. Resign Drake....one thing about Drake is that there are other FA options at RB, he shouldnt get a huge contract. 2021 David Johnson can be released much easier.

 

[slanidrac16]

Maybe I shouldn't have said 35 points, since I was just trying to illustrate a point. The best offense in the league put up 33 PPG last year. The point is, we won't have the same defense because we don't have those players signed, and adding Hooper will break the bank at a non-need position.

I might be mixing you up with another poster, but I feel like you and I have had the discussion multiple times, or you've brought up that you don't really know who we have under contract very well. Only two DEs that took any snaps last year are on the roster. One played four games, the other is a 7th round pick. At OLB, we don't even have Cassius Marsh or Brooks Reed. We have Haason Reddick who is not a starting caliber player. Same with ILB. The medley of guys we tried to play there are unsigned.

Sign Austin Hooper and you have to get creative just get backup quality players in those spots. We will be fielding essentially the worst players in the league at those positions.

I implore you, go look up the roster and see how desperate the situation is.

I don’t really want Hooper. I’m more infatuated with another TE into the group and I’m not sold on Daniels. I know there is no way we are spending 9 m on Hooper.
As far as other players I really think a guy like Marsh, Hundley, Shipley, Byrd And/or Cooper, Gonzalez along with a couple of our DL guys will be retained.
The big question is humphries which I think he will be a Cardinal. That’s 9 players bringing our roster up to 45. Other than Humphries none of those players are going to break the bank and stop us from adding 3 or players in F/agency.
I also think DJ will be moved and we will end up saving some us his cap hit. I’m thinking about 6m. We’ll see.

 

[slanidrac16]

Its the NFL, you cannot be great in all areas. This current roster is centered around the offense, and the once mighty defense has been, impressively, dismantled into one of the worst in the league.

Best chance to win is to load up on offense and hope and pray the defense holds up enough.

Honestly that is one way to attack it. However, poor VJ will be hung out to dry by us.

 

[Solar7]

Add Hooper on offense, and a receiving group of Fitzgerald, Kirk, Hooper, Cooper/Byrd, Isabella, and Butler doesnt look nearly as desperate.

In some ways it kills the idea of adding WR round one and then you can add cheaper talent through the draft.

Go Brown and then a young edge rusher round 2. Use the rest of the free agent dollars on guys like Vernon Butler and Jordan Jenkins. Resign Drake....one thing about Drake is that there are other FA options at RB, he shouldnt get a huge contract. 2021 David Johnson can be released much easier.

This still strikes me as not enough money to add the other guys you’re talking about, and puts us in a precarious position in the draft where we’ll have to reach instead of going BPA.

I mean, I’m sure if this rumor was about us going for Amari Cooper or AJ Green, I’d probably relent in the argument, I just don’t think Hooper is a difference maker. Hunter Henry would make me more excited.

 

[DVontel]

This still strikes me as not enough money to add the other guys you’re talking about, and puts us in a precarious position in the draft where we’ll have to reach instead of going BPA.

I mean, I’m sure if this rumor was about us going for Amari Cooper or AJ Green, I’d probably relent in the argument, I just don’t think Hooper is a difference maker. Hunter Henry would make me more excited.

The guy that has big durability problems that Hooper doesn’t?

 

[DVontel]

Not to mention the dude is playing with a good group of talent around him as well. Keenan, Mike Williams, Ekeler/Gordon, etc.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Maybe Arnold can add some weight and improve his blocking. He's listed at 6-6, 220. But it doesn't appear Hooper adds much more than Arnold and Maxx Williams combined. So I say pass and put the money in areas it's more badly needed....as has already been pointed out in this thread.

He actually fared alright blocking... and you need to load that position with talent if that becomes your strong point

 

[Solar7]

The guy that has big durability problems that Hooper doesn’t?

I’m not excited about either. But at least I think Henry is a top-end option that isn’t wholly made by his surrounding cast.

Henry’s surrounding cast is good, but in a world where they’re all healthy, he’s a top option over some of the others, and Hooper is a complementary piece. Health is a big issue though. I wouldn’t spend at the TE position.

 

[Solar7]

He actually fared alright blocking... and you need to load that position with talent if that becomes your strong point

Loading a position with talent doesn’t work unless you can justify their lack of snaps or how many are on the field at once. Is KK’s offense going to become predicated on 2-TE sets, or was that just a matter of adapting to personnel?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You are advocating to go all in on offense and just let the defense keep on sucking. Nobody makes the play offs that way.

I'm advocating for letting the offence remain top half of the league and bringing the defense up to match it. Resulting in a TEAM that is top half of the league and can make the playoffs.

Lol. Oooookay. Here comes the putting words in my mouth hyperbole argumentation.

I said concentrate on the offense and I support signing hooper. Nowhere did I say “go all in on offense” and nowhere did I say “let the defense keep sucking,” I clearly advocated making an investment on defense just a more modest one.

I’m happy to keep the conversation going, but not if you resort to these tactics.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

FWIW

8. TE HUNTER HENRY
Since entering the league in 2016, there have been two constants in Henry’s career: injuries and production. When healthy, he’s one of the best receiving tight ends in the game, and his 90.5 receiving grade against single coverage is eighth-best in the league since 2016. Henry is also a solid run blocker, posting above-average seasons in two out of his three full years. Any team looking for his services is going to get a mismatch weapon who can win in-line, in the slot or on the outside. That versatility is extremely valuable in today’s NFL.

I’d have interest in Henry too. Likely greater interest than in hooper.

 

[Solar7]

Lol. Oooookay. Here comes the putting words in my mouth hyperbole argumentation.

I said concentrate on the offense and I support signing hooper. Nowhere did I say “go all in on offense” and nowhere did I say “let the defense keep sucking,” I clearly advocated making an investment on defense just a more modest one.

I’m happy to keep the conversation going, but not if you resort to these tactics.

I think where he’s coming from is that if we sign Hooper, along with some of the considered re-signings, we frankly can’t work out the math on the other guys.

Don’t wanna speak for him, but I personally don’t think we can afford to “upgrade” at any position where we have a starter. Someone who is a replacement for an empty roster spot can represent a better player than last year’s starter though.

 

[BritCard]

Lol. Oooookay. Here comes the putting words in my mouth hyperbole argumentation.

I said concentrate on the offense and I support signing hooper. Nowhere did I say “go all in on offense” and nowhere did I say “let the defense keep sucking,” I clearly advocated making an investment on defense just a more modest one.

I’m happy to keep the conversation going, but not if you resort to these tactics.

Like when you said I was advocating for mediocrity on both sides of the ball?

I thought you were pushing for all out offensive free agency when you said

"I recall in various arenas the propositions of “play to your strengths” or “enhance your strengths rather than expend more energy trying to fill your weaknesses.” I think it holds true with sports. First, identify your strength. Can you make that strength top in the field? If so, do that before trying to fill weaknesses. Weaknesses are weaknesses for a reason - they are more difficult to build up do to your specific circumstances. The cards strength at present is definitely the offense. It’s middle of the pack. But if they add top tier weapons to it the hope is it’s jumps to elite. If you ignore it to instead build an atrocious defense to mediocre you’re essentially left with a team that’s mediocre all over. It seems smarter to build to a side of the team to elite and then follow by building defense to mediocre. For those reasons and hoopers age and skill set I am all for signing him."

It reads like you are suggesting major offensive investment to make the offense elite which would take more than Hooper and much of our cap space. But if not I apologise.

 

[daves]

Good call. He is FA and would be a good cheap pickup. Had 350 yards last year in limited time and 3 TDs. I would much rather pay him $1.5m than pay Hooper $10m.

Reality check: OTC has Hooper valued at $8.2M/year, and Hollister at $5.2M/year. Not that OTC is the ultimate authority on the matter, but those numbers seem a lot more realistic than yours. Guess we shall see what the market bears.

...dave

 

[JeffGollin]

I couldn’t agree more. I’m loving two tight end sets. The defense personnel is set for the pass you run it down their throats. If they come up to stop the run you have a mismatch to throw. It also reduces your 3 Wr sets to perhaps reduce the need for a wr.

I confess to a built-in bias of feeling heavy dependance on the TE is boring.

That said - I think the emergence of physical freaks at the position is transforming the role of the TE to kind of Super-Blocker/Receiver who can take over football games. If and when we get one or two of those guys, we can be a TE-heavy offense also. Till then, we should run an offense that gets the most of the guys we've got.

 

[BritCard]

Reality check: OTC has Hooper valued at $8.2M/year, and Hollister at $5.2M/year. Not that OTC is the ultimate authority on the matter, but those numbers seem a lot more realistic than yours. Guess we shall see what the market bears.

...dave

He has 49 receptions and 450 yards in 3 years. I would think his money ceiling is what Maxx Williams just got.

Turns out he's RFA anyway sadly.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Loading a position with talent doesn’t work unless you can justify their lack of snaps or how many are on the field at once. Is KK’s offense going to become predicated on 2-TE sets, or was that just a matter of adapting to personnel?

Oh, please. You cannot tell me Kingsbury did not see the progression of what he was doing. I think we need to give professionals a little more credit in their profession having the realization that they cannot rebuild this roster overnight and that they're seeing something which did work. This is a contact sport, people get dinged up and you need depth. I am all for a Hooper, Arnold, Williams TE group... and our coaching staff is more than capable to allocate justification of usage, geez

 

[DVontel]

If we don’t go for a Hooper, I hope we go for TE in the draft. Josiah Deguara in round 5 would be a great pick.

 

[Solar7]

Oh, please. You cannot tell me Kingsbury did not see the progression of what he was doing. I think we need to give professionals a little more credit in their profession having the realization that they cannot rebuild this roster overnight and that they're seeing something which did work. This is a contact sport, people get dinged up and you need depth. I am all for a Hooper, Arnold, Williams TE group... and our coaching staff is more than capable to allocate justification of usage, geez

Kingsbury adapted just fine. Does that mean it's what he wants to do optimally in his offense? Not so sure.

This isn't "depth," this is spending a significant amount of money on a player who will be counted on to be a star instead of a contributor. He's going to make roughly $10m per season.

Our coaching staff isn't capable of anything until they start winning some actual games against real opponents. The only feather in their cap is Seattle.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Kingsbury adapted just fine. Does that mean it's what he wants to do optimally in his offense? Not so sure.

This isn't "depth," this is spending a significant amount of money on a player who will be counted on to be a star instead of a contributor. He's going to make roughly $10m per season.

Our coaching staff isn't capable of anything until they start winning some actual games against real opponents. The only feather in their cap is Seattle.

Carry on Solar... because Williams is not getting a butt load of money and having two stud TEs for what works equates points as the Patriots once found out

 

[Solar7]

Carry on Solar... because Williams is not getting a butt load of money and having two stud TEs for what works equates points as the Patriots once found out

Maxx Williams is getting a decent check. He is not a stud TE, he is serviceable. Hooper will get a butt load of money and is not a stud TE.

The Patriots had two stud TEs because they drafted and developed them, not threw them tons of money in free agency after seeing them perform on a stacked offensive roster. Remember, this team drafts and develops no one.

 

[Chopper0080]

You are advocating to go all in on offense and just let the defense keep on sucking. Nobody makes the play offs that way.

I'm advocating for letting the offence remain top half of the league and bringing the defense up to match it. Resulting in a TEAM that is top half of the league and can make the playoffs.

I am pretty sure he is advocating to help the offense go from average to above average and the defense from bad to average. It is not realistic to believe you can take a bad offense or defense and make it great in a single off-season. It is more likely to move it a smaller degree and build over time.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Maxx Williams is getting a decent check. He is not a stud TE, he is serviceable. Hooper will get a butt load of money and is not a stud TE.

The Patriots had two stud TEs because they drafted and developed them, not threw them tons of money in free agency after seeing them perform on a stacked offensive roster. Remember, this team drafts and develops no one.

So that is your basis for discussion, that you will examine every move as the status quo of a past hindrance. That you will admit Kingsbury adapted but let your paranoia run rampant and claim he will be stubborn and do it all over again with a spread full set when he acknowledge that did not work which prompted him to use more TEs and backs. Usually people who are judged as innovative do not go backwards. Would you not say that Kugler has not developed this OL. Would you not say that Kingsbury and Clements have not done some advantageous tutelage with Murray... but then again you cited already this offseason will be abysmal, so I will not yank your chain and let you embrace your theme

 

[Chopper0080]

Loading a position with talent doesn’t work unless you can justify their lack of snaps or how many are on the field at once. Is KK’s offense going to become predicated on 2-TE sets, or was that just a matter of adapting to personnel?

How is our TE position anywhere close to being "loaded with talent"?