Run Defense Terrible since 2020. Coaching or Talent?

[QuebecCard]

Last year the Cardinals ranked 21st. Would they have won one more game last year if they ranked middle of the pack? This is a trend now

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A "trend" that ignores the injuries on the "D" line in 2020 is one not worth the term.

 

[Chopper0080]

Some of it is prep. Some of it is execution. Some of it is personnel. How you play vs a zone scheme and a back like Cook is very different than how you play vs a back like Henry and maybe more power concepts.

Vs zone you have to stay even with your blocker up front stringing the play out with your LBs coming up and making the tackles. The moment your front gets too far ahead or behind you create running lanes and cut your LBs off from the ball carrier. Same concept with your LBs. If they pursue too fast, the cutback lane is wide open and if they pursue too slow they get beat to the hole.

What I feel like I saw was a more aggressive use of Baker/Thompson to fill gaps and cutback lanes.

 

[Arz101]

A "trend" that ignores the injuries on the "D" line in 2020 is one not worth the term.

Cardinals were 23rd in 2019 rush defense rankings.

 

[Arz101]

Some of it is prep. Some of it is execution. Some of it is personnel. How you play vs a zone scheme and a back like Cook is very different than how you play vs a back like Henry and maybe more power concepts.

Vs zone you have to stay even with your blocker up front stringing the play out with your LBs coming up and making the tackles. The moment your front gets too far ahead or behind you create running lanes and cut your LBs off from the ball carrier. Same concept with your LBs. If they pursue too fast, the cutback lane is wide open and if they pursue too slow they get beat to the hole.

What I feel like I saw was a more aggressive use of Baker/Thompson to fill gaps and cutback lanes.

Is using Baker and Thompson so close to the box a recipe that is sustainable? Rams and 49ers will hit play action repeatedly to freeze Safeties trying to crash the boxes . And let us not forget the Cardinals CBs are the weakest group.

Vikings OC Klint Kubiak is new to business and this 2nd half tactic worked against the inexperience. Next week is Darell Bevell. Jags may not have the fire power but in NFC West this spells trouble.

 

[Arz101]

I am sure most of you have seen how close Cook was? On the final drive, Cook runs left and someone got half a tackle close to LOS and Cook was unable to stay on the feet. If he did that was a home run. There were a couple of plays like that in 2nd half. Cardinals got lucky is an understatement this Monday Morning.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We were 14th in rushing DVOA last year. I'm not super-concerned. Teams are passing more than ever; if you can lock down the pass the rush matters less.

I saw a stat head years ago who pulled the numbers for passing numbers and passing defense for every year during the Super Bowl era. He created a stat called passing differential...basically a stat that accounted for how well a team passed vs. how well they passed.

Over the Super Bowl era, the team that was first in the league generally won the Super Bowl.

 

[ajcardfan]

I am sure most of you have seen how close Cook was? On the final drive, Cook runs left and someone got half a tackle close to LOS and Cook was unable to stay on the feet. If he did that was a home run. There were a couple of plays like that in 2nd half. Cardinals got lucky is an understatement this Monday Morning.

No, a guy on our defense made a play that prevented a TD. That isn't luck, my good sir. Luck would have been Cook tripping with no contact.

 

[Rohinaz]

I am sure most of you have seen how close Cook was? On the final drive, Cook runs left and someone got half a tackle close to LOS and Cook was unable to stay on the feet. If he did that was a home run. There were a couple of plays like that in 2nd half. Cardinals got lucky is an understatement this Monday Morning.

But thats how all NFL games are. We scored 2 TDs on plays that likely no other QB would be capable of scrambling and spinning and WR finding open space. We also could have stopped a pick6 of more just went for the tackle instead of trying to knock the ball lose. Not to mention a 62 yards fg and a roughing the punter call, both dramatically impacted the game. He made the tackle on cook.

 

[Chopper0080]

Is using Baker and Thompson so close to the box a recipe that is sustainable? Rams and 49ers will hit play action repeatedly to freeze Safeties trying to crash the boxes . And let us not forget the Cardinals CBs are the weakest group.

Vikings OC Klint Kubiak is new to business and this 2nd half tactic worked against the inexperience. Next week is Darell Bevell. Jags may not have the fire power but in NFC West this spells trouble.

No. But playing defense is not about eliminating risk. Where defense becomes problematic is when you are predictable. That is why disguising coverages is so key. It is why blitzing is key. There are openings and ways to beat every coverage. The key is to hide those which causes the QB to hold the ball and gives you time to get him off his spot or get a sack.

Offense is all about timing and rhythm. Defense is about disrupting those.

 

[kerouac9]

No. But playing defense is not about eliminating risk. Where defense becomes problematic is when you are predictable. That is why disguising coverages is so key. It is why blitzing is key. There are openings and ways to beat every coverage. The key is to hide those which causes the QB to hold the ball and gives you time to get him off his spot or get a sack.

Offense is all about timing and rhythm. Defense is about disrupting those.

On the Ringer NFL Podcast last week (Wednesday, maybe), Dominique Foxworth and Kevin Clark talked about how defenses can slow down modern offenses and have a chance. Foxworth said that if he were a DC today he'd work on almost nothing but red zone offense. That's the place where the field is a little more even vs. modern dual-threat QBs because it's so much shorter.

 

[dscher]

Give credit to Vikings o line here?! Some weeks even the less talented guys get the better of the more talented ones...if it becomes a trend halfway through though, then we'll know more.

 

[QuebecCard]

Cardinals were 23rd in 2019 rush defense rankings.

There are simply too many variables to postulate year over year trends and to suggest how our run defence will fare this season. Our scheme to control an extremely quick cut back runner yesterday was simply wrong in the first half; the gap control was horrendous, and then we adjusted. The DC gets an "F" for the first two quarters and an "A" for the next two.

 

[Chopper0080]

On the Ringer NFL Podcast last week (Wednesday, maybe), Dominique Foxworth and Kevin Clark talked about how defenses can slow down modern offenses and have a chance. Foxworth said that if he were a DC today he'd work on almost nothing but red zone offense. That's the place where the field is a little more even vs. modern dual-threat QBs because it's so much shorter.

I agree. Red zone and 3rd down/4th down would be where I spend 90% of my time.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Many posters are purposefully ignoring the ranking from 2020 onwards... This team is not going far in NFC West without atleast 20-30% improvement in run defense.....

Methinks we are ignoring 2020, because of all the player turnover on the defense from last year. This team is nothing like last years' lineup. There is more beef and athleticism up front...speed at linebacker (except for Hicks)...length at Safety...There is less talent at CB, but at least these guys will tackle. Just like it's taken 3 years for KK to get the speed and hands needed to run his offense, Vance is just now getting all the pieces in place to run his defense better. Let's just see how things shake out for another couple of weeks.

 

[cardncubfan]

This deserves it's own thread. Also note that you can learn as much about a game/team in a win as in a loss.

This run D has the potential to de-rail this young season... Is this coaching or talent issue ?

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I don't think Derrick Henry agrees with any of this.

 

[football karma]

I agree. Red zone and 3rd down/4th down would be where I spend 90% of my time.

watching the Mannings on monday night football is pretty good

Peyton last week said the D coordinators basically run base defense on 1st and 2nd down-- and all week to week scheming is for 3rd down and Red zone

 

[oaken1]

In theory.... our defense is built to pass rush and our offense is built to stack points quickly.... mid the offense does what it’s supposed to do then opponents won’t be running on us for long.... then we turn loose the pass rush.

Don’t think it’s a huge issue unless we get in a situation where the opposition is trying to eat clock.... but then we adjust the scheme

 

[Arz101]

GTHO if you cannot see the issues right in front of you now with Cardinals run defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In theory.... our defense is built to pass rush and our offense is built to stack points quickly.... mid the offense does what it’s supposed to do then opponents won’t be running on us for long.... then we turn loose the pass rush.

Don’t think it’s a huge issue unless we get in a situation where the opposition is trying to eat clock.... but then we adjust the scheme

The problem is our passrush isn’t showing much

 

[oaken1]

The problem is our passrush isn’t showing much

Yeah....

In theory....

 

[Chopper0080]

The problem is our passrush isn’t showing much

It's because Vance can't scheme a free rusher for his life. Dude blitzes and his blitzes rarely get home.

 

[Jasper]

Problem is our Dline is relatively weak up the middle. Missing a true stud NT/DT. We never really replaced or drafted a replacement for DD, dumpster Dan, CC

 

[Chopper0080]

Problem is our Dline is relatively weak up the middle. Missing a true stud NT/DT. We never really replaced or drafted a replacement for DD, dumpster Dan, CC

Our NTs are fine. Zach Allen and Watt are not a great combo and for some reason we don't like to play Leki.

 

[Jasper]

Our NTs are fine. Zach Allen and Watt are not a great combo and for some reason we don't like to play Leki.

Watt actually gets penetration, haven't seen an highlight for Zach so far after three games.

 

[Arz101]

I swear it feels like Zaven Collins name has not been called on TV for a run or pass he stopped.