Ryan McDonough

[Covert Rain]

The Mavericks relied heavily on their 3 headed PG (Terry, Kidd, JJ), they also used the prototypical stretch 4, the Heat played long stretches with a Bosh/LeBron front court, the Spurs used Diaw in the middle on a regular basis, their crunch time lineup was 2 combo guards, Diaw, Leonard and Duncan.

I also said that it lineups that BC would define as "small ball". And I have no doubt that if the Suns employed similarly sized players in those spots he'd rant and rave.

Well history is on BC's side. Look at all the titles in NBA history. Overwhelmingly playing a standard line up has proven to be the most successful. Again, no doubt some teams mix up the lineup with smaller guys to spark offense but I don't recall any using it as a primary lineup in the playoffs.

 

[Phrazbit]

Well history is on BC's side. Look at all the titles in NBA history. Overwhelmingly playing a standard line up has proven to be the most successful. Again, no doubt some teams mix up the lineup with smaller guys to spark offense but I don't recall any using it as a primary lineup in the playoffs.

To me thats as relevant as saying teams should run the wishbone in football because once upon a time it was the standard of offense.

The league adapts, teams are becoming smarter, most teams realize that its better to sacrifice some size for talent rather than running big men out there who can't play but get PT simply because of their size.

History shows talent wins, that has been the constant.

And again, I was talking about BC's version of small ball vs the idea of multiple plodding big men, no wing guys shorter than 6'6" and Saint Dragic at the point. Most of the teams that are winning right now are running what BC would consider "small ball", especially if it was the Suns doing it.

The days of almost every team starting a 7 footer, regardless of their talent, are dead. And thank god.

 

[Covert Rain]

And again, I was talking about BC's version of small ball vs the idea of multiple plodding big men, no wing guys shorter than 6'6" and Saint Dragic at the point. Most of the teams that are winning right now are running what BC would consider "small ball", especially if it was the Suns doing it.

The days of almost every team starting a 7 footer, regardless of their talent, are dead. And thank god.

OK, I gotcha. I also agree with that point. It used to be even if you had a no talent piece of garbage at center you would see teams stick with that guy by hook or crook. I agree that nowadays teams won't hesitate to push their PF at that spot for some spots in games to keep things moving.

Also, I think what has changed the game is there are many big men who can actually shoot beyond the paint now. I bet nothing is more annoying than a PF like Dirk for instance stepping behind the 3 point line and saying "you got to come out here and guard me".

 

[BC867]

Talent is the trump card. Its not about being big, its about being good and executing.

Of course talent is a qualification. As are 'good' and 'executing' (which are rather vague evaluations).

But where you are going head-to-head against opponents, it requires more than talent to be strong against playoff calibre teams.

It takes a balance of size and strength along with speed and finesse.

This isn't golf or bowling where you take turns in the limelight. It is constant body contact, leaning, holding. And refs with a long history of rewarding the aggressor and penalizing the victim, especially in the post-season. Like it or not.

That is yesterday's NBA. That is today's NBA. And that will be tomorrow's NBA.

And it has always left the Suns "a day late and a dollar short" as the old saying goes.

For once I would like to see my Phoenix Suns build a dominating team. Instead, they just move farther and farther away from it.

 

[Phrazbit]

Big does not = dominating, it just = big.

You can talk about yesterday vs today vs tomorrow, but the reality is the teams that have won titles the last 4 years (and the runner up in those years) play a style that you consider "small ball". They wear teams down the speed, skill and execution. They give virtually zero minutes to guys who provide little else but size. Those players are a dying breed, and with good cause.

As I said previously, some of the most disappointing years in Suns history were years where they built teams in the image of your dreams. Big, lumbering centers like Hod Rod Williams, Tsuckalitis, Shaq, Luc Longley... size at the sacrifice of talent. Those teams were massive disappointments, despite their construction around size and strength.

 

[Cheesebeef]

jury's completely out on McD. He gets one more off-season from me to see if this train is heading in the right direction before old school Cheese on fire comes back!

 

[Catlover]

jury's completely out on McD. He gets one more off-season from me to see if this train is heading in the right direction before old school Cheese on fire comes back!

What will it take to convince you it's headed the right direction? I ask because I can easily see us take a clear step forward and still miss the playoffs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What will it take to convince you it's headed the right direction? I ask because I can easily see us take a clear step forward and still miss the playoffs.

there can't be a clear stop forward without making the playoffs, IMO. We were a game out of the playoffs last year, and with 10 games to go, we're 2.5 games out of the playoffs. If they don't get there next year, that's a major problem. That means it will have taken more then three years not just to rebuild, but to rebuild to even a middling playoff team. And that's three years where we've been armed with a cache of draft picks AND a major off-season with huge cap room.

 

[sunsfan88]

Not sure if this has been posted already but here's Bill Simmons on the Suns FO and Hornacek:

Phoenix Suns (39-40)

Tao of Dom: “Running ain’t freedom. You should know that.”

They turned last season’s delightfully entertaining, unexpectedly promising and precociously young run-and-gun Suns team into this season’s sullen, disjointed mess of a whatever-the-hell-happened-here. They turned Eric Bledsoe into a borderline max guy. They antagonized Goran Dragic by bringing in a third point guard, played him out of position for three months, took it personally when he bitched to the press, then panic-downgraded from Dragic (I voted him second-team All-NBA last season) to Brandon “You’re Gonna Have To Overpay Me So This Doesn’t Look Like a Total Disaster” Knight. They essentially flipped Dragic, Isaiah Thomas, Tyler Ennis, Miles Plumlee and that famously tasty Lakers pick (top-five protected in 2015, top-three protected in 2016 or 2017) for Knight and three non-lottery picks (Cleveland’s 2016 first-rounder and Miami’s 2017 and 2021 first-rounders).

Buried under everything: Jeff Hornacek’s mysterious free fall from “2014 Coach of the Year Candidate” to “Possessed by the Spirit of Vinny Del Negro.” No 2014-15 team blew more winnable games in dumber/unluckier/more inexplicable ways than the Suns. They were a 50-win team that somehow went .500. Then again, they STILL would have been a top-six seed in the East. Nail the lottery pick in June, sign Knight for a fair price and maybe they’re back in business. Stay positive, Suns fans. And definitely don’t read this footnote.

He also writes this footnote:

I can’t type this strongly enough: I absolutely HATE everything that Phoenix did. There’s just no way that the Suns are better off than they were 10 months ago. If you’re gonna deal Dragic, then keep Isaiah Thomas and that Lakers pick and don’t do the Knight deal. If you’re gonna deal Thomas, then just keep Dragic and the Lakers pick. But how do you end up with no Dragic, no Thomas and no Lakers pick? What the hell just happened?????

IMO Simmons absolutely nailed this analysis.

 

[slinslin]

How does Bill Simmons know that the Heat picks are non-lottery? They are almost completely unprotected...

Bill Simmons is an entertainer, an expert he is not.

R.McD recognized that this team lacked talent and needed to bottom out and get younger. My only complaint with him that even though he said before the season that he felt we lacked talent despite our season last year that the unexpected success obviously stopped him from going through with the rebuild and instead he started making trades for the short term (B.Wright) when he should have recognized the mirage that this playoff chase ALWAYS was and should have stripped the roster more to tank for a high pick.

And by that I mean he should have traded Tucker and Thomas/Dragic much earlier so that Hornacek would be forced into playing Warren and Goodwin and the Suns would be looking at a top 6 pick right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

In regard to the article (I would like to see a link) keeping Dragic was not an option even if the Suns traded IT. I thought this was discussed at the time of the trade. However, the Suns should have kept IT and the Lakers pick. The only thing I can figure out for the Knight trade, is the Suns valued Knight more than the Lakers pick. Also the 2021 Heat pick is reportedly unprotected.

 

[mojorizen7]

If you’re gonna deal Thomas, then just keep Dragic and the Lakers pick. But how do you end up with no Dragic, no Thomas and no Lakers pick? What the hell just happened?????

What happened was a giant rubber stamp on maintaining mediocrity in a league where you have to either buy a great "win now" team via FA....or bottom out in order to draft an elite player you can build around.

The Suns remain in No Mans Land. Why? Bad luck? Stubbornness? Incompetence?

 

[Lefty]

Does anyone know what McDonough's plan is? It feels a little like Towers, who did not have a plan.

 

[SirStefan32]

Does anyone know what McDonough's plan is? It feels a little like Towers, who did not have a plan.

Acquire assets, then hope to land a major free agent before pissing the said assets away. It hasn't worked out that way so far.

 

[Phrazbit]

McD is eons better than Towers.

Towers inherited a bounty, a young team set to contend for years and he utterly destroyed it as fast as could be imagined. McD inherited a dumpster fire and there is absolutely no disputing that things have improved since. People might not like where things are at the moment but its unquestionably better than it was 2 years ago.

Not saying McD is Jerry West either, but being better than Towers is a low bar. Lance Blanks was worlds better than Towers.

And yes, I think they have a plan, but the plan got knocked off the rails last year when the team was surprisingly good. We ALL saw the plan when they were doing things like trading Gortat 5 minutes before the season started and handing the starting center spot over to Plumlee, who had hardly played previous and looked like trash when he had. I think we're going to see that plan come back into motion this off-season.

If they can't land a major player then I think they're going to blow this roster to pieces.

As for what Simmons said. Its humorous that Miami's picks are both supposedly "non-lotto" despite their nearly non existent protection and Miami's current situation as an old, crappy team that is in the lotto already.

 

[hcsilla]

Lance Blanks was worlds better than Towers.

He wasn't. He is one the worst GM's ever.

 

[Phrazbit]

He wasn't. He is one the worst GM's ever.

You will never catch me defending Lance Blanks, he was a terrible GM, I remember him once saying he didn't bother to watch college basketball, that takes a special level of awful. But Kevin Towers was so bad that it felt like he was a mole, sent by another team team to destroy from within.

This is a Suns forum so ranting on KT is out of place, so I will keep it brief. In short, he inherited a young, outstanding, playoff team along with one of the most loaded farm systems in baseball, in a few short years they were an old team, with a payroll twice as large, a depleted farm system and they were the worst team in baseball.

Towers reign in Arizona may have been THE worst GM stint of all time.

 

[sunsfan88]

Acquire assets, then hope to land a major free agent before pissing the said assets away. It hasn't worked out that way so far.