Salary cap considerations

[Griffin]

If I am not mistaken, should both Amare and Frye decide not to pick up their player options for next season as they have already stated, we are looking at 43.1M in committed contracts. With the salary cap set at approximately $56.1M for next season, that would leave the Suns roughly $13M to work with (the Suns would have to renounce the rights to all their free agents first though). Not enough to give a max to a top-tier free agent, but certainly enough to go after a player like David Lee without having to do any sign-and-trades. In fact, that should be enough to sign Lee and re-sign Frye and/or Amundson.

A sign-and-trade that sends Amare to a team under the cap would create a trade exemption that the Suns could use to acquire another player via trade, but it is unlikely that we'd be able to trade for someone like Dirk using the exemption, so this only seems like a good option if we are also getting some young talent and/or draft picks in return.

The point is, even if we let Amare walk without compensation, we should have enough room under salary cap to sign someone to replace him. I would love to see the Suns go after Lee in such scenario. I also don't see a reason why Lee would not want to play here if the Suns make a serious push for him. But if not, who else could be gotten in that $8-13M/year range?

 

[elindholm]

I get $43.1M in salaries, plus the minimum cap holds for the next five roster spots, which probably brings it up to $45-something. Which numbers are you using?

 

[Griffin]

I get $43.1M in salaries, plus the minimum cap holds for the next five roster spots, which probably brings it up to $45-something. Which numbers are you using?

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

I meant to type 43.1M.

 

[elindholm]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

I meant to type 43.1M.

Ah, got it. So yes, the minimum holds bring the space down to between $10M and $11M, I would guess. That number isn't as appealing as it looks, because the Suns would have to renounce both Frye and their MLE in order to get there, which means Frye is gone (unless they re-sign him with part of that same money, in which case why bother to renounce him in the first place).

Unless the Suns want to jettison Frye, they have only a bit more than MLE money to work with.

 

[Griffin]

Ah, got it. So yes, the minimum holds bring the space down to between $10M and $11M, I would guess. That number isn't as appealing as it looks, because the Suns would have to renounce both Frye and their MLE in order to get there, which means Frye is gone (unless they re-sign him with part of that same money, in which case why bother to renounce him in the first place).

Unless the Suns want to jettison Frye, they have only a bit more than MLE money to work with.

Yeah, re-signing Frye in this scenario would be difficult. The cap holds are about $470K each, so if we renounce all the free agents, we have $11.1M to work with (although each cap hold is removed as soon as you sign someone to an offer). So, say we sign Lee to a deal that starts at $9/year (is that within his market value?) that leaves about $2.5M. That might be just enough to re-sign Amundson, Jones, and second round rookies to round out the roster. However, should we let Amare walk, I like this team much better with Lee than with Frye.

 

[Cheesebeef]

David Lee? I just don't get it. Losing Amare and signing Lee is losing Dice and signing Googs all over again.

 

[joshstmarie]

David Lee? I just don't get it. Losing Amare and signing Lee is losing Dice and signing Googs all over again.

Yea cause googs was SUCH a bad signing when he was Avging 20/9/4 before he was injured right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yea cause googs was SUCH a bad signing when he was Avging 20/9/4 before he was injured right?

yeah, he was a bad signing if you want to compete for a title. On the other hand, if you enjoy watching a 50 win and one and done playoff team that had no shot whatsoever of ever winning anything, then he'd be perfect... just like David Lee.

 

[elindholm]

That might be just enough to re-sign Amundson, Jones, and second round rookies to round out the roster.

Those guys are going to be playing for the minimum, so the Suns could sign them regardless, even if they use up all of their cap space first.

However, should we let Amare walk, I like this team much better with Lee than with Frye.

The Suns would need another big in either scenario, so I guess the question is, which is easier: Finding a Lee substitute for "Lee money" or finding a Frye substitute for "Frye money"? It seems like a tough call to me. I got very frustrated with Frye as the regular season wore on, but he kept his head up throughout the postseason even when the going got rough, and that earned my respect.

 

[Griffin]

I got very frustrated with Frye as the regular season wore on, but he kept his head up throughout the postseason even when the going got rough, and that earned my respect.

I would like to keep both Frye and Amundson, but that may prove to be difficult.

The ironic part is that it seems the Suns will have a lot more flexibility if they are over the salary cap than under it. If we sign and trade Amare to a team below salary cap, we can use the trade exemption to trade for a max player or a lesser contract, possibly via sign-and-trade again. Then, since the trade exemption counts against the cap, we still can use the mid-level exemption or part of it to re-sign Frye and use Amundson's early bird rights to give him a raise. Same if we re-sign Amare. But if we simply let him walk and go under the salary cap, our options become very limited.

 

[Irish]

I'm going to be interested in learning what kind offers Fry gets. A year ago he came to Phoenix after being almos totally ignored by the rest of the NBA. He did some good stuff, but IMHO most teams are going to start catching on to the way plying with Nash and Stat makes guys look better than they are. Stephen Hunter was a classic examble and Marion stopped getting All Star stats in Miami and Dallas.

Fry's value came mostly for being able to spread the floor after teams were packing the paint to stop Steve and Amare. Can he get those looks on other teams?

 

[taz02]

Resign Amare, Use the MLE to resign fry and trade barbosa for tyson chandler.

 

[SunsTzu]

Suns would have to renounce both Frye and their MLE in order to get there, which means Frye is gone (unless they re-sign him with part of that same money, in which case why bother to renounce him in the first place).

The Suns don't have Frye's Bird or Early Bird rights so there is no reason not to renounce him if he opts out(actually not sure they even have to bother renouncing him in this situation). They'll either have to use the MLE or cap space to re-sign him regardless. I personally wouldn't want to pay him significantly more annually than he is currently making.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns don't have Frye's Bird or Early Bird rights so there is no reason not to renounce him if he opts out(actually not sure they even have to bother renouncing him in this situation). They'll either have to use the MLE or cap space to re-sign him regardless.

Oops, you're right, thanks for the correction.

 

[elindholm]

I would like to keep both Frye and Amundson, but that may prove to be difficult.

I don't see any particular challenge in keeping Amundson. It's unlikely that he'll get an offer for more than the minimum, and he seems happy in Phoenix, so he's theirs if they want him.

The ironic part is that it seems the Suns will have a lot more flexibility if they are over the salary cap than under it.

But really that just comes down to, the Suns have more flexibility if they get something for Stoudemire than if they get nothing for him. Which we already knew.

Then, since the trade exemption counts against the cap, we still can use the mid-level exemption or part of it

I'm not sure what you mean by the trade exemption counting against the cap (it doesn't). Maybe you mean that the Suns could still have that money to spend after using the MLE, which is true.

But if we simply let him walk and go under the salary cap, our options become very limited.

At least they still have the rights to Vujanic.

 

[Irish]

IMHO, If they keep Amare, the real issue is Luxuary Tax and not cap space.

As for trading Barbosa, I'm not clear on why everyone is so obsessed with trading him. Do we have any evidence he has any trade value? Has anybody made an offer?

I figure the real debate within the Suns management will be over the future of J-Rich. Hoopshype has him getting $14.4 million next year, the last year of his contract. If they decide to tear appart the team, he might bring in some valuable rookie contracts.

 

[SunsTzu]

IMHO, If they keep Amare, the real issue is Luxuary Tax and not cap space.

Not really. The problem would be possible implications of the impending CBA. Suns won't be near tax range regardless of what happens this offseason.

 

[joshstmarie]

yeah, he was a bad signing if you want to compete for a title. On the other hand, if you enjoy watching a 50 win and one and done playoff team that had no shot whatsoever of ever winning anything, then he'd be perfect... just like David Lee.

Hilarious. Just like amare, or even mcydess for that matter.

 

[Irish]

Not really. The problem would be possible implications of the impending CBA. Suns won't be near tax range regardless of what happens this offseason.

The contract debate is about the later years. I agree the Suns will not be dumping contracts in the near future, but once Dragic, Lopez and maybe Clark are eligible to get new contracts, the budget will start getting tight.

The first big test will be J-Rich when he come off contract summer of 2011.

 

[SunsTzu]

but once Dragic, Lopez and maybe Clark are eligible to get new contracts, the budget will start getting tight.

No way to know that at this point. Chances are the only contracts that will really hurt future finances are the ones that have already been signed or will be signed this off season. This is the main reason I believe the Suns haven't(and most likely won't) signed Amare to the max. Not because of the current financial structure but because of the possible crippling effect it would have on the new CBA(keeping in mind teams have already received preliminary copies of the new proposed CBA).

 

[Yuma]

If we "can't" resign Amar'e according to Sarver, then I would let Amundson walk, and maybe resign Frye. Watching us play the Lakers, who we have to beat if we ever want a championship, we need to get bigger. Frye would be OK as a small forward for us. If Amar'e walks, obviously we need a new PF, and possibly another PF or Center that we can match up the different bigs the Lakers have. We could get by with B level bigs that play good defense. If AMar'e walks, I really don't see how Nash would play well on offense without a pick and roll guy like Amar'e, imho.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hilarious.

what's hilarious? If you think adding David Lee to this team does anything but makes us a one and done playoff team for the foreseeable future, just as Googs did to us, well, then agree to disagree. But are you really going to argue that the 27-23 Kidd-Googs team was title worthy or the next year when Kidd-Googs-Penny were healthy and they were a 53 win team?

A frontline of Grant Hill-David Lee-Robin Lopez is probably the least imposing front-line of any playoff team I can think of in the West.

 

[82CardsGrad]

A frontline of Grant Hill-David Lee-Robin Lopez is probably the least imposing front-line of any playoff team I can think of in the West.

No doubt... and also, the cheapest...

 

[slinslin]

If we let Amare walk signing David Lee is a catastrophe. It will be better to sign only players on cheap deals with potential than handing out any bigger contracts before the new CBA.

If Amare walks we need to set up our rebuilding process NOW which means more than anything trading Barbosa because besides Nash he is the only non-rookie contract that lasts a year into the new CBA.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

It's also possible that maybe Sarver isn't in this for the long haul either. If we start seeing a lot of cash driven moves, maybe the Suns are being put into a position for sale, thoughts on that possibility? Just pure conjecture on my part.