Sanders Off Season Plan

[Solar7]

I’m with you guys on Gunter. I’d bring him back. I’d love a dominant DE at some point, but I think that right now, he and a Shelby Harris type along with growth from Zach Allen and maybe another rookie could hold down the fort.

Right now we need semi-capable bodies at the position more than anything.

 

[Chopper0080]

You can sign

Austin Hooper
Shelby Harris
Stephen Weatherly
Jordan Jenkins
Corey Littleton
Justin Simmons

If you wanted to. This would allow you to focus on WR, OL, OLB and CB in the draft. The cap only limits you to the degree you let it.

 

[Ronin]

Now we find somebody who can manipulate the cap like prag(sp?) has been doing for the 49ers. I think he’s been doing since the Nate clements days.

I hope can find somebody like that.

 

[Solar7]

You can sign

Austin Hooper
Shelby Harris
Stephen Weatherly
Jordan Jenkins
Corey Littleton
Justin Simmons

If you wanted to. This would allow you to focus on WR, OL, OLB and CB in the draft. The cap only limits you to the degree you let it.

You can also continue to blow the salary cap out your ass for mediocre players that are all backloaded, if you do that.

Sorry, I want Keim gone, and I want someone new in here to rebuild this team. I don't want to assemble a team that's still third place at best in the NFC West and then 2-3 years down the line have no capability to sign anyone because we have $73 million in dead cap, an exercise we just went through.

Unfortunately Keim has no reason to think he's going to be able to stick around ...again... so he can just waste resources!

...again!

 

[Cheesebeef]

You can also continue to blow the salary cap out your ass for mediocre players that are all backloaded, if you do that.

Sorry, I want Keim gone, and I want someone new in here to rebuild this team. I don't want to assemble a team that's still third place at best in the NFC West and then 2-3 years down the line have no capability to sign anyone because we have $73 million in dead cap, an exercise we just went through.

Unfortunately Keim has no reason to think he's going to be able to stick around ...again... so he can just waste resources!

...again!

here's the thing... you keep bashing EVERYONE'S plan and they're all pretty different so here's my question:

What/who DO you want the team to go after this year?

 

[Chopper0080]

You can also continue to blow the salary cap out your ass for mediocre players that are all backloaded, if you do that.

Sorry, I want Keim gone, and I want someone new in here to rebuild this team. I don't want to assemble a team that's still third place at best in the NFC West and then 2-3 years down the line have no capability to sign anyone because we have $73 million in dead cap, an exercise we just went through.

Unfortunately Keim has no reason to think he's going to be able to stick around ...again... so he can just waste resources!

...again!

You are thinking way too linearly.

The moment Fitz goes our cap is +11 mil. (Corey Littleton)

Patrick Peterson isn't under contract in 2021 which frees up +14 mil. (Any top FA)

We cut Robert Alford prior to the 2021 season, we add +7.5 mil. (Austin Hooper)

The moment we cut David Johnson we add +7 mil in 2021 and +12 mil in 2022. (More Hooper and Shelby Harris)

Chandler Jones is off the books in 2022 which frees up +20 mil.

Cutting Justin Pugh preceding the 2022 season gives us +10 mil.

###

We have 13 players under contract in 2022...

the cap has gone up 20% in the past 3 years...

are on the verge of a new CBA which could sky-rocket player contracts...

and people on here are worried about future cap problems.

 

[Chopper0080]

I swear, some people on this board could write a book on "How to waste the advantage of having a starting QB on a rookie contract".

 

[Solar7]

here's the thing... you keep bashing EVERYONE'S plan and they're all pretty different so here's my question:

What/who DO you want the team to go after this year?

I've said it in other threads, but here's the rough layout again, and this is my semi-perfect world where I'm being realistic and hopeful no one has wild demands I'm not thinking of. I'm aware there are variables to some of these things, and I'm happy to lay them out at the end.

OL

- Franchise Humphries
- Re-sign Gilbert or Justin Murray to a cheap one year deal but that goes off the table if Conklin comes available
- Don't re-sign AQ Shipley - kick the tires on Conor McGovern or make C a very viable pick in the 2nd round
- Aim to draft one of the top 3 OL choices at #8​

RB

- Let Drake walk unless he takes a dirt cheap deal on a short contract (or we can move on from DJ)
- Retain David Johnson unless we can work something out with his salary and move him
- Draft a young guy in the 3rd round or let a remaining post-draft RB function as part of a committee​

WR

- See how much people are really willing to pay AJ Green - if it's not major, bring him in
- Bring back Byrd/Cooper
- Only consider WR in the 1st if somehow the other guys I'm talking about come together in a financially feasible way - I prefer Lamb
- Otherwise open up the 2nd round to WR as well​

Defense

- Bring back OLB Cassius Marsh
- Sign one 3-4 OLB of these four: Dupree, Judon, Golden, Beasley (the top two are long term answers, second two are shorter prove it deals)
- Bring back Gunter
- Sign DE Shelby Little from the Broncos
- Depending on how OLB went, bring in someone like DE Arik Armstead (my whole point at DE is to build a rotation of guys with upside, with the hope someone develops, while giving us flexibility in the draft)
- Sign ILB Jamie Collins with the hope he's cost effective, or move on to someone else with starting experience that gives us a chance to draft Simmons if he's there (I wish Bynes wasn't gone)​

Special Teams, etc.

- Bring back Gonzalez, retain Lee, etc.
​

Sorry if I seem wishy washy, there's just so many dependencies as the dominoes begin to fall. Like, Conklin is my #1 choice to spend the most money on, and I'm assuming we can only get one high-end-ish FA. If he isn't, I'm looking to pay Dupree and address OL in the draft, etc.

As we get closer to actual free agency, I'm sure we'll know which doors are closed, and I can refine this.

​

 

[Chopper0080]

"Let's focus on finding value players" is not the mentality of teams who are devoid of talent. It is the mindset of teams who are paying a QB 25 mil and are struggling to find ways to retain their top end players. I know what situation we aren't in.

 

[Solar7]

You are thinking way too linearly.

The moment Fitz goes our cap is +11 mil. (Corey Littleton)

Patrick Peterson isn't under contract in 2021 which frees up +14 mil. (Any top FA)

We cut Robert Alford prior to the 2021 season, we add +7.5 mil. (Austin Hooper)

The moment we cut David Johnson we add +7 mil in 2021 and +12 mil in 2022. (More Hooper and Shelby Harris)

Chandler Jones is off the books in 2022 which frees up +20 mil.

Cutting Justin Pugh preceding the 2022 season gives us +10 mil.

###

We have 13 players under contract in 2022...

the cap has gone up 20% in the past 3 years...

are on the verge of a new CBA which could sky-rocket player contracts...

and people on here are worried about future cap problems.

All I see is "cut cut cut cut" and absolutely zero solutions. Until this team can draft more than one starter a year, we will be in this mess. You're cutting six starters in two years when we have a whopping three players in their rookie deals that are guaranteed to start in 2020 alone.

Can't take advantage of a rookie QB deal when you're looking at signing free agents just to have enough players to attend training camp.

 

[Solar7]

"Let's focus on finding value players" is not the mentality of teams who are devoid of talent. It is the mindset of teams who are paying a QB 25 mil and are struggling to find ways to retain their top end players. I know what situation we aren't in.

It is when we're already bumping up against the cap even with a cheap QB. For the millionth time, it's bad drafting. I'd agree with you in other situations, but we have no young value players to make up the belly of the team.

We have 51 active players, but the vast majority of them are futures guys with no chance.

 

[Chopper0080]

All I see is "cut cut cut cut" and absolutely zero solutions. Until this team can draft more than one starter a year, we will be in this mess. You're cutting six starters in two years when we have a whopping three players in their rookie deals that are guaranteed to start in 2020 alone.

Can't take advantage of a rookie QB deal when you're looking at signing free agents just to have enough players to attend training camp.

This is a garbage argument.

Are you advocating to pay keeping Robert Alford at 9 mil in 2021 or you prepared to eat 1.5 mil because he will probably not be worth it at the time?

Are you advocating to keep David Johnson?

Are you advocating paying Pugh 12 mil in 2022 or are you considering that it might be worth eating 2 mil in dead cap to save 10?

This is why you structure 5 years contracts for veterans this way. So you can get out of them once their value drops.

Are you stating that it is a bad practice to move on from 30+ year old players? Of course you aren't.

The concept is called "cycling" and it is what good teams do. You sign good players and structure the contracts so you can move on once their play declines which enables you to sign younger players and repeat. All this while you are drafting players to fill out your roster and hopefully become the players you give these contracts to.

 

[Chopper0080]

It is when we're already bumping up against the cap even with a cheap QB. For the millionth time, it's bad drafting. I'd agree with you in other situations, but we have no young value players to make up the belly of the team.

We have 51 active players, but the vast majority of them are futures guys with no chance.

Three things...

1-We are not bumping up against the cap.

2-The solution to bad drafting isn't to NOT sign good players.

3-You have to add talent. If you struggle to add that talent in the draft, you are forced to add it in free agency.

 

[Solar7]

This is a garbage argument.

Are you advocating to pay keeping Robert Alford at 9 mil in 2021 or you prepared to eat 1.5 mil because he will probably not be worth it at the time?

Are you advocating to keep David Johnson?

Are you advocating paying Pugh 12 mil in 2022 or are you considering that it might be worth eating 2 mil in dead cap to save 10?

This is why you structure 5 years contracts for veterans this way. So you can get out of them once their value drops.

Are you stating that it is a bad practice to move on from 30+ year old players? Of course you aren't.

The concept is called "cycling" and it is what good teams do. You sign good players and structure the contracts so you can move on once their play declines which enables you to sign younger players and repeat. All this while you are drafting players to fill out your roster and hopefully become the players you give these contracts to.

In a vacuum, I'm fine with your argument on each guy.

But instead of cutting them because we blew our wad on a bunch of guys in FA in 2020, the plan should be that we're cutting guys near the ends of their deal because we have ready youth in the wings.

You're talking about cutting players we have no replacements for. Am I cutting Alford and letting Peterson walk to start Byron Murphy in the slot and then paying $20 million in contracts to outside CBs? Because then I have an issue.

Chandler Jones is walking so I can start... who? 28 year old Jordan Jenkins on a bloated, backloaded contract?

Same with Pugh. Gotta find a new RG!

Cycling is fine when it's just a player or two and you have someone in the wings, not when you're slamming your salary cap year over year with overpaid guys. This team drafted so poorly last year that we're about to have four full spots with no OLBs, ILBs, or DEs (outside of a 4 game player and 7th round pick who both showed nothing).

 

[Dback Jon]

All I see is "cut cut cut cut" and absolutely zero solutions. Until this team can draft more than one starter a year, we will be in this mess. You're cutting six starters in two years when we have a whopping three players in their rookie deals that are guaranteed to start in 2020 alone.

Can't take advantage of a rookie QB deal when you're looking at signing free agents just to have enough players to attend training camp.

His name is Chopper...

 

[slanidrac16]

I've said it in other threads, but here's the rough layout again, and this is my semi-perfect world where I'm being realistic and hopeful no one has wild demands I'm not thinking of. I'm aware there are variables to some of these things, and I'm happy to lay them out at the end.

OL

- Franchise Humphries
- Re-sign Gilbert or Justin Murray to a cheap one year deal but that goes off the table if Conklin comes available
- Don't re-sign AQ Shipley - kick the tires on Conor McGovern or make C a very viable pick in the 2nd round
- Aim to draft one of the top 3 OL choices at #8​

RB

- Let Drake walk unless he takes a dirt cheap deal on a short contract (or we can move on from DJ)
- Retain David Johnson unless we can work something out with his salary and move him
- Draft a young guy in the 3rd round or let a remaining post-draft RB function as part of a committee​

WR

- See how much people are really willing to pay AJ Green - if it's not major, bring him in
- Bring back Byrd/Cooper
- Only consider WR in the 1st if somehow the other guys I'm talking about come together in a financially feasible way - I prefer Lamb
- Otherwise open up the 2nd round to WR as well​

Defense

- Bring back OLB Cassius Marsh
- Sign one 3-4 OLB of these four: Dupree, Judon, Golden, Beasley (the top two are long term answers, second two are shorter prove it deals)
- Bring back Gunter
- Sign DE Shelby Little from the Broncos
- Depending on how OLB went, bring in someone like DE Arik Armstead (my whole point at DE is to build a rotation of guys with upside, with the hope someone develops, while giving us flexibility in the draft)
- Sign ILB Jamie Collins with the hope he's cost effective, or move on to someone else with starting experience that gives us a chance to draft Simmons if he's there (I wish Bynes wasn't gone)​

Special Teams, etc.

- Bring back Gonzalez, retain Lee, etc.
​

Sorry if I seem wishy washy, there's just so many dependencies as the dominoes begin to fall. Like, Conklin is my #1 choice to spend the most money on, and I'm assuming we can only get one high-end-ish FA. If he isn't, I'm looking to pay Dupree and address OL in the draft, etc.

As we get closer to actual free agency, I'm sure we'll know which doors are closed, and I can refine this.

​

I would like to see you break your additions down to fit the cap. Conklin,Little, Dupree, Collins, and McGovern are not going to come cheap. Add Humphries To the cost too.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Its a solid plan. I would rather send DJ to Tampa with a later round pick, or possibly agreeing to take on part of his salary than drop fro #8 to #14 just to dump him.

I would then target Simmons in the 1st, and spend the money you had allotted for Littleton on another position.

Also, back to DJ....Tampa is going to be looking to get out of Cameron Brate's deal. We have need of a TE upgrade, they need a RB. Do you think there is a chance we could work out a deal of DJ and a 5th for Brate and it actually is a pretty good trade for both teams?

Imo, Simmons being there at #8 depends on whether or not Carolina takes a QB? If they don't take a QB then they will probably get him. They need a replacement for LK.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

He won’t.

Only way he does is if Carolina takes a QB?

 

[slanidrac16]

Only way he does is if Carolina takes a QB?

I just don’t see it happening.

 

[Solar7]

I would like to see you break your additions down to fit the cap. Conklin,Little, Dupree, Collins, and McGovern are not going to come cheap. Add Humphries To the cost too.

Like I said, those players are contingent of what happens as things cascade down. If I acquire Conklin, I'm well aware I'm not getting Dupree, Collins, and probably not McGovern. There's no way for me to break this down financially when the availability of these players is out of my hands.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You can sign

Austin Hooper
Shelby Harris
Stephen Weatherly
Jordan Jenkins
Corey Littleton
Justin Simmons

If you wanted to. This would allow you to focus on WR, OL, OLB and CB in the draft. The cap only limits you to the degree you let it.

That would be a haul. And if a few players already on the roster step up plus a draft pick plays well the Cardinals can contend for a playoff berth.

 

[Chopper0080]

In a vacuum, I'm fine with your argument on each guy.

But instead of cutting them because we blew our wad on a bunch of guys in FA in 2020, the plan should be that we're cutting guys near the ends of their deal because we have ready youth in the wings.

You're talking about cutting players we have no replacements for. Am I cutting Alford and letting Peterson walk to start Byron Murphy in the slot and then paying $20 million in contracts to outside CBs? Because then I have an issue.

Chandler Jones is walking so I can start... who? 28 year old Jordan Jenkins on a bloated, backloaded contract?

Same with Pugh. Gotta find a new RG!

Cycling is fine when it's just a player or two and you have someone in the wings, not when you're slamming your salary cap year over year with overpaid guys. This team drafted so poorly last year that we're about to have four full spots with no OLBs, ILBs, or DEs (outside of a 4 game player and 7th round pick who both showed nothing).

You are arguing to argue at this point.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I just don’t see it happening.

Carolina needs a QB. Cam Newton will be cut or traded imo. I don't believe they think Kyle Allen is the answer? They benched him late in the yr for the backup.

 

[Solar7]

You are arguing to argue at this point.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I feel like we see eye to eye on a lot of things, just not here.

 

[slanidrac16]

Like I said, those players are contingent of what happens as things cascade down. If I acquire Conklin, I'm well aware I'm not getting Dupree, Collins, and probably not McGovern. There's no way for me to break this down financially when the availability of these players is out of my hands.

So you saying we can’t do everything. That is true. That is why we ( us) have to accept the fact that we are only going to be able to accomplish 6 moves even though we need 10.

So moves and acquisition made this year have to be with the thoughts and ideas of how it’s going to lead into next year.

We need to accept the fact we may still desire an OLB but will be forced to live with Reddick or Marsh. Who knows? They might be adequate.

We need to accept the fact that we might have to live with the offense status quo. Yes we believe we need a wr1 but not at the cost of filling a major deficiency at DE, ILB , OLB or O-line which could fill that hole for years to come.

I have come to the conclusion that 98% of us will be unhappy with the moves made between now and training camp. Keim is going to get blasted by us, rightfully so because things should have not gotten this bad.

That being said I see a glimmer of hope because of the way things unfolded in 2019. We have 100 miles to go. Get your mind right and understand that if we can go 70 miles this year it will be a big accomplishment.