Saving Mr. Banks

[AZZenny]

Reifenstahl's visit was not long after Kristallnacht. Disney is widely quoted as telling her he admired her work but it would hurt his image and reputation to be seen professionally associating with her. Not entirely naive or ignorant, perhaps.

It is also well-documented that in the original 1933 Three Little Pigs animation, the big bad wolf appeared as a 'classic' yiddish-Jewish peddler complete with big schnozz and sidecurls and a strong 'Jewish' accent. Walt approved this, then after public pressure changed the wolf's appearance to that of a Fuller Brush man, but not the accent; that was later changed as well. Mickey Mouse in another cartoon used a lighter emblazoned with a swastika.

Again, the idea that Walt was naive or an innocent is baloney. I hope you all realize that just because sexism, racism, and anti-semitism were so common that it was 'normal' in the 30's and 40's and 50's (and 60's-70's-80's-90's-00's and 10's) may help explain why someone like Disney held those views, it certainly doesn't mean he wasn't a racist, sexist, bigot. He WAS - and he had a lot of ignorant company.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think it's incredibly presumptuous to assume because he did business he had insider knowledge of everything happening over there.

who's talking "insider" knowledge? I'm just saying someone who owned a company as big and successful as Disney wasn't as clueless about what was going on outside the states as Joeschmoe like Mao brought up.

Especially when biographies indicate had no interest in politics.

I've always found this to be a perplexing idea. a man who had no interest in politics was a founding member of the anti-communist group Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals, which was not only an anti-communist organization but also an anti-semitic one as well. Not just a member, but a founder of the organization. Sounds like someone interested in politics to me.

Also was he really a "a Titan" at that time? His first huge hit Snow White came out in 37?! He was a visionary but I don't think you could classify him that way at that time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really? The Disney cartoons and Mickey were in theaters since the early 30's and his empire was already building by the time Snow White became a hit. And Mickey was a huge sensation by the early 30's.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Reifenstahl's visit was not long after Kristallnacht. Disney is widely quoted as telling her he admired her work but it would hurt his image and reputation to be seen professionally associating with her. Not entirely naive or ignorant, perhaps.

It is also well-documented that in the original 1933 Three Little Pigs animation, the big bad wolf appeared as a 'classic' yiddish-Jewish peddler complete with big schnozz and sidecurls and a strong 'Jewish' accent. Walt approved this, then after public pressure changed the wolf's appearance to that of a Fuller Brush man, but not the accent; that was later changed as well. Mickey Mouse in another cartoon used a lighter emblazoned with a swastika.

Again, the idea that Walt was naive or an innocent is baloney. I hope you all realize that just because sexism, racism, and anti-semitism were so common that it was 'normal' in the 30's and 40's and 50's (and 60's-70's-80's-90's-00's and 10's) may help explain why someone like Disney held those views, it certainly doesn't mean he wasn't a racist, sexist, bigot. He WAS - and he had a lot of ignorant company.

bingo.

 

[Covert Rain]

Again, the idea that Walt was naive or an innocent is baloney. I hope you all realize that just because sexism, racism, and anti-semitism were so common that it was 'normal' in the 30's and 40's and 50's (and 60's-70's-80's-90's-00's and 10's) may help explain why someone like Disney held those views, it certainly doesn't mean he wasn't a racist, sexist, bigot. He WAS - and he had a lot of ignorant company.

I don't think anybody is calling Walt naive. In fact, I think we all agree during those times many of those attitudes towards women and other races were the societal "norm". It doesn't excuse it one bit but I think you have to put in on context of those times.

Saying he was a Nazi sympathizer and at the same time saying he was falsely accusing others of communism is both contradictory and crossing the line IMO. Many around him including several biographers say he was no such thing.

I guess you can just chalk this up to people believing what they want on either side.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think anybody is calling Walt naive. In fact, I think we all agree during those times many of those attitudes towards women and other races were the societal "norm". It doesn't excuse it one bit but I think you have to put in on context of those times.

Saying he was a Nazi sympathizer and at the same time saying he was falsely accusing other of communism is both contradictory and many around him including several biographers say he was no such thing.

note...I'm not even sure he was a Nazi sympathizer. the issue way back on page one was "Disney was uncorruptable"...and my main point was that working with Nazi's to put your product forward just seems like someone who's easily corruptible.

I just think there's a lot of smoke with good ole Walt from the negative images of Jews seen throughout Disney's early years to his foundation of anti-semitic groups to ties with Nazi figures that lead to believe there could have been a fire there.

 

[Covert Rain]

note...I'm not even sure he was a Nazi sympathizer. the issue way back on page one was "Disney was uncorruptable"...and my main point was that working with Nazi's to put your product forward just seems like someone who's easily corruptible.

I just think there's a lot of smoke with good ole Walt from the negative images of Jews seen throughout Disney's early years to his foundation of anti-semitic groups to ties with Nazi figures that lead to believe there could have been a fire there.

Fair enough but like I said in my previous post, Walt was not big during those years. He was struggling and had to take out a loan just to finish Snow White or he would have gone under. He didn't become a Titan of the Industry until after the success of Snow White and he could actually build a huge studio which came after.

I am just saying that to characterize him as this worldly figure with access to all knowledge of everything is stretching it. He was a struggling artist desperate to get his art out there. I don't think he had time to worry about politics or study up on societal crime in other countries. It was very much not part of the American consciousness at that time.

I can see why people would want to make that leap but one being racist and sexist to pro Nazi is a huge stretch IMO.

At any rate...who is going to get us back on target of the thread here?

 

[BigRedRage]

this thread rocks.

Some good things though:

Disney changed a lot in our country and around the world as far as story telling and animation go. Disney employees get pensions and are treated fairly well in comparison to other major companies. Other theme parks are fun but no one does it like Disney. You dont go on roller coasters in Disney world, you go through stories with thrills. Everything is created to fully emmerce you in what is happening and make you feel a part of the story vs just being a ride. Disneys visions and creations are beloved by many including me, it does not get much better than disney world.

He may have had some views people do not agree with then or now but the man did some great things for our world and our current generations are better off because of him vs being worse off IMO.

Where will Disney go in the future is the main question. Things have changed a bit from the top - they are not ahead of the game with everything anymore (some stands in epcot(the future world) Dont even take credit cards) and very much more a money grab than what Walt Disney created. Their films are not quite what they used to be either.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just read interesting rebuttal from ex-Disney employee about Walt's racism and sexism. Perhaps a sign that someone can change. Even though I don't disagree that in his early career it may have had some issues, it appears by the time he created Snow White things began to change.

Animator Floyd Norma (their first black animator) wrote

"He knew that talent had no color or ethnicity and he judged people by their ability to do their job and do it well. Walt Disney was a man of his time, but he was determined not to be imprisoned by it. He dreamed of a better world and even had the audacity to try and build it. Hardly an American to be vilified. Walt Disney deserves to be celebrated."

“While it is true the studio regarded women differently from men in the '30s, I found many young women who had nothing but good things to say about their years in Ink and Paint. Most loved Uncle Walt and never regarded him as a sexist.”

“Disney was actually one of the few places that employed women back then,” said the insider."

By the forties Disney hired Mary Blair, Retta Scott, Biana Majolie Sylvia Holland and tons of women filled the ranks of the animation department. Walt even hired Phyllis Hurrell to head up one of his production departments which was unheard of at that time.

In addition he hired Joe Grant, Dave Detiege, Lou Appet and Ed Solomon, Mel Levin, Robert and Richard Sherman who were all Jewish.

Other minorities he hired were Victor Haboush, Tyrus Wong, Dick Ung, Iwao Takamoto, Willie Ito, Ray Aragon and Ron Dias?

So, in short..maybe he did grow up racist and sexist and just was part of that societal norm. However, it appears to me it was more complex than that and part of him was willing to look past his own personal shortcomings as a person

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Meryl Streep rebukes Walt Disney: Anti-Semitic and 'a gender bigot'

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...emitic-20140108,0,7038803.story#ixzz2qNaLwthI

According to Variety and other news accounts, after a series of humorous quips and nods to Thompson's talent, Streep turned serious and called Disney "a gender bigot," noting that "some of his associates reported that Walt Disney didn't really like women." She quoted a letter that Disney's company wrote in 1938 to an aspiring female animator, which said, "Women do not do any of the creative work in connection with preparing the cartoons for the screen, as that task is performed entirely by young men."

Streep also said that Disney "supported an anti-Semitic industry lobbying group."

Streep's comments offer a markedly different perspective from the sparkly portrayal of Uncle Walt in "Saving Mr. Banks." In the film, Disney is portrayed by yet another beloved Hollywood star, Tom Hanks, as a wholesome, good-natured genius whose main concern is making merriment.

Hanks recently told the Times that "Saving Mr. Banks" is more about Travers than Disney, which is why the film didn't address some of the skeletons in Disney's closet.

Presumably, Streep's grudge against Disney isn't insurmountable, as she is set to appear in the upcoming Disney film "Into the Woods," based on the Stephen Sondheim and James Lapine musical.

---------------------------

I love Hollywood. "Disney was this and Disney was that. He was really awful. By the way, come see me in a Disney film really soon."

 

[Chaplin]

Meryl Streep rebukes Walt Disney: Anti-Semitic and 'a gender bigot'

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...emitic-20140108,0,7038803.story#ixzz2qNaLwthI

According to Variety and other news accounts, after a series of humorous quips and nods to Thompson's talent, Streep turned serious and called Disney "a gender bigot," noting that "some of his associates reported that Walt Disney didn't really like women." She quoted a letter that Disney's company wrote in 1938 to an aspiring female animator, which said, "Women do not do any of the creative work in connection with preparing the cartoons for the screen, as that task is performed entirely by young men."

Streep also said that Disney "supported an anti-Semitic industry lobbying group."

Streep's comments offer a markedly different perspective from the sparkly portrayal of Uncle Walt in "Saving Mr. Banks." In the film, Disney is portrayed by yet another beloved Hollywood star, Tom Hanks, as a wholesome, good-natured genius whose main concern is making merriment.

Hanks recently told the Times that "Saving Mr. Banks" is more about Travers than Disney, which is why the film didn't address some of the skeletons in Disney's closet.

Presumably, Streep's grudge against Disney isn't insurmountable, as she is set to appear in the upcoming Disney film "Into the Woods," based on the Stephen Sondheim and James Lapine musical.

---------------------------

I love Hollywood. "Disney was this and Disney was that. He was really awful. By the way, come see me in a Disney film really soon."

I read an article the other day -- forgive me, I can't recall where -- that pretty much rebuts everything Streep said. I think it used quotes from a couple Disney biographers.

 

[Covert Rain]

Meryl Streep rebukes Walt Disney: Anti-Semitic and 'a gender bigot'

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...emitic-20140108,0,7038803.story#ixzz2qNaLwthI

According to Variety and other news accounts, after a series of humorous quips and nods to Thompson's talent, Streep turned serious and called Disney "a gender bigot," noting that "some of his associates reported that Walt Disney didn't really like women." She quoted a letter that Disney's company wrote in 1938 to an aspiring female animator, which said, "Women do not do any of the creative work in connection with preparing the cartoons for the screen, as that task is performed entirely by young men."

Streep also said that Disney "supported an anti-Semitic industry lobbying group."

Streep's comments offer a markedly different perspective from the sparkly portrayal of Uncle Walt in "Saving Mr. Banks." In the film, Disney is portrayed by yet another beloved Hollywood star, Tom Hanks, as a wholesome, good-natured genius whose main concern is making merriment.

Hanks recently told the Times that "Saving Mr. Banks" is more about Travers than Disney, which is why the film didn't address some of the skeletons in Disney's closet.

Presumably, Streep's grudge against Disney isn't insurmountable, as she is set to appear in the upcoming Disney film "Into the Woods," based on the Stephen Sondheim and James Lapine musical.

---------------------------

I love Hollywood. "Disney was this and Disney was that. He was really awful. By the way, come see me in a Disney film really soon."

What I posted above was a direct rebuttal to Steep's comments from people who actually worked there and biographers. What is interesting is there seems to be a ton of misinformation out there. Disney definitely had some issues early in his career. I don't think anybody can deny that. However, some of it has been distorted.

I also agree with you on Streep's grudge. Let's not also forget that not only what you pointed out above but she also worked with Woody Allen and I don't recall her railing against him.

I just read another account that says the only reason Disney joined the MPA was because they were anti-communist and he put up with their anti-semitic members to further the cause of fighting communism. However, clearly his ACTIONS and hiring Jewish people was a contradiction to that group.

Per Douglas Brode, "There is zero hard evidence that Disney ever wrote or said anything anti-Semitic in private or public. His films feature a wide array of great Jewish actors in the most diverse roles imaginable, more so than any other studio of Hollywood's golden age, including those run by Jewish movie moguls. Disney, let's recall, was the first filmmaker ever to cast a Jewish actor, Ed Wynn, as Santa Claus, in Babes in Toyland. We ought to give Disney the benefit of the doubt. Such attacks, including the recent one by Ms. Streep, constitute the repetition of a vicious rumor that has no basis in anything that can be thought of as fact."

 

[Chaplin]

What I posted above was a direct rebuttal to Steep's comments from people who actually worked there and biographers. What is interesting is there seems to be a ton of misinformation out there. Disney definitely had some issues early in his career. I don't think anybody can deny that. However, some of it has been distorted.

I also agree with you on Streep's grudge. Let's not also forget that not only what you pointed out above but she also worked with Woody Allen and I don't recall her railing against him.

I just read another account that says the only reason Disney joined the MPA was because they were anti-communist and he put up with their anti-semitic members to further the cause of fighting communism. However, clearly his ACTIONS and hiring Jewish people was a contradiction to that group.

Per Douglas Brode, "There is zero hard evidence that Disney ever wrote or said anything anti-Semitic in private or public. His films feature a wide array of great Jewish actors in the most diverse roles imaginable, more so than any other studio of Hollywood's golden age, including those run by Jewish movie moguls. Disney, let's recall, was the first filmmaker ever to cast a Jewish actor, Ed Wynn, as Santa Claus, in Babes in Toyland. We ought to give Disney the benefit of the doubt. Such attacks, including the recent one by Ms. Streep, constitute the repetition of a vicious rumor that has no basis in anything that can be thought of as fact."

LOL, that's exactly what I was referring to. Apologies, I'm heavily medicated with the flu.

 

[UncleChris]

. Mickey Mouse in another cartoon used a lighter emblazoned with a swastika.

Nazi Swastika:

You must be registered for see images

Design on Mickey's lighter:

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Not a Nazi Swastika. The legs are pointing the wrong way and it is not tilted.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Not a Nazi Swastika. The legs are pointing the wrong way and it is not tilted.

Looks more like the swastika the 45th Infantry Division used as its emblem before WWII. Which came because it was based in Oklahoma and the swastika was used by Native Americans long before anyone heard of the Nazis. (It was changed to a Thunderbird.)

I must say..... I grew up in Anaheim and Walt employed a lot of parents. He died when I was in junior high school. He had such an impact on us I remember where I was when I heard he was dead. Anaheim/Orange County was so conservative our dentist had John Birch Society pamphlets in his waiting room. So it was out there. We knew who the radical conservatives were and it wasn't hard to see discrimination and racism and antisemitism. One thing I NEVER heard was Walt Disney and Nazi in the same sentence. Ever. And I grew up hearing Walt stories.

He made sure his black employees had pensions for God's sake. The older blacks who worked for him still talk about that. NO ONE in Orange County was doing that in the 50's and 60's. The only places you SAW blacks employed in Orange County was at Disneyland. And working as janitors at Sears.

 

[FischerKing]

Pardon the interruption, but I liked the movie.

Carry on...

 

[UncleChris]

Pardon the interruption, but I liked the movie.

Carry on...

Where the hell you been???

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Pardon the interruption, but I liked the movie.

Carry on...

 

[FischerKing]

Where the hell you been???

buried alive

 

[UncleChris]

buried alive

Missed ya!

 

[FischerKing]

Missed ya!

thanks.

 

[cardfaninfl]

The selection committee for the Oscars has given their opinion of Disney Pictures' attempt to canonize Uncle Walt by revisiting history with a story about his attempt to save a psychologically damaged woman author, who was facing financial ruin, from herself. (You know how those uppity broads can be. Especially the ones that lived in the country that stood up to the Nazis.)

 

[Covert Rain]

You know what is interesting is that I just read an article that talked about how she severely softened her stance towards Disney and the movie towards the end of her life. In fact, the article was quoting someone who said that he even sat down and they re-watched the movie together and she praised it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know what is interesting is that I just read an article that talked about how she severely softened her stance towards Disney and the movie towards the end of her life. In fact, the article was quoting someone who said that he even sat down and they re-watched the movie together and she praised it.

really? every article I've read has said the exact opposite. i mean...in her last will and testament, she stipulated that if a stage musical was to be made, that no one from the original film production was to be involved. This included the Sherman Brothers, the songwriting team behind the Poppins classics. She also stipulated that only English-born writers could be used, no Americans.

doesn't sound like a women who would heap praise upon a movie she scorned pretty publicly.

 

[Covert Rain]

really? every article I've read has said the exact opposite. i mean...in her last will and testament, she stipulated that if a stage musical was to be made, that no one from the original film production was to be involved. This included the Sherman Brothers, the songwriting team behind the Poppins classics. She also stipulated that only English-born writers could be used, no Americans.

doesn't sound like a women who would heap praise upon a movie she scorned pretty publicly.

Disney historian Brian Sibley who became friends with her while working on a sequel. In fact, he was working on a sequel with her. He stated "Received wisdom is that she hated the film, but when I worked with her on a [unfilmed] sequel, years later, we watched it together and I found that there was more that she liked than disliked—indeed, much of the material that came solely from the film [as opposed to her stories) was followed up or referenced in the treatment we wrote together and in my subsequent screenplay."

Sibley says that with Travers they rewatched (at London Studios) the entire film and Travers liked parts of the film and told him to make notes of those moments for possible inclusion in the treatment. Roy Disney and Sibley had convinced her to write a treatment for the sequel and that Roy advised to give her what she wanted including portraying Marry Poppins more accurately.

However, the project ended up getting shelved. That doesn't sound like someone who hated the film either. My guess is she hated the process and the people involved. However, she agree to write the treatment and it was under way in 1988.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Disney historian Brian Sibley who became friends with her while working on a sequel. In fact, he was working on a sequel with her. He stated "Received wisdom is that she hated the film, but when I worked with her on a [unfilmed] sequel, years later, we watched it together and I found that there was more that she liked than disliked—indeed, much of the material that came solely from the film [as opposed to her stories) was followed up or referenced in the treatment we wrote together and in my subsequent screenplay."

Sibley says that with Travers they rewatched (at London Studios) the entire film and Travers liked parts of the film and told him to make notes of those moments for possible inclusion in the treatment. Roy Disney and Sibley had convinced her to write a treatment for the sequel and that Roy advised to give her what she wanted including portraying Marry Poppins more accurately.

However, the project ended up getting shelved. That doesn't sound like someone who hated the film either. My guess is she hated the process and the people involved. However, she agree to write the treatment and it was under way in 1988.

sounds like someone who wanted money, not liked the first film.

and this is from a Disney historian? I'm sure there's no agenda/bias there.