Scenario: Arians stays with staff changes?

[b8rtm8nn]

The DB coach also coaches the safeties. Marcus Cooper was brought in late last year and earned a big free agent contract this past off season. Jefferson was an UDFA and blossomed. The safety from Alabama that preceded Jefferson improved. Swearinger was even grabbed from the scrap heap and became a sought after free agent. I don't think anyone can complain about the DB's the Cards have put out there.

Other than Jaron Brown becoming serviceable, I don't see any WR's outperforming their abilities. Agree, John Brown has been hurt but he and JJ have regressed. Chad Williams is a wait and see. How many times do we hear of the WR's running the wrong route? These aren't rookies out there. If you're going to hold other coaches accountable for missed assignments, Drake is too.

My comment about firing the DB or CB coach was merely an example - I actually like all of our position coaches. I feel like our weaknesses are at the coordinator levels. Can't fix the offense without firing the head coach, but you can say that there approach to the run game (design wise) is garbage and needs to change, you can fire Bettcher (don't think they will) and should fire Amos. Bettcher needs to improve if they keep him next year, not certain how you handle that...but the assessment of his defense has to be on the table as not good enough to continue without changes. Firing position coaches won't fix it - we did very well with these coaches in the past - Bettcher is the change that occurred.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I know BA is stubborn but I think Keim is going to force him to make some changes if he wants to remain the Cards coach.

Staff changes I think are plausible:
Obviously, Amos Jones gets canned.
Pagano is going to be out in Indy. Bring him in as a co-defensive coordinator with Bettcher. I don't think they'll outright fire Bettcher, or demote him. I think a veteran like Pagano will be very helpful.

Fire Daryl Drake. I'll be honest, I had to look up to see who the Cards WR coach is. It's funny on the Cards website it mentions Drakes accomplishments as having coached LF. Drake has had zero impact on Larry's success and Larry would be just as great had I been coaching the WR's. I look at how no receivers have developed under Drake and you can even say almost all have regressed, starting with Michael Floyd.

I think those staff changes and BA stays as I don't think there will be sweeping changes.

Of course this is all dependent on BA wanting to stay and being open to changes.

Pagano wouldn't be co-DC...rather he'd be assistant HC- Defense. Bettcher would continue to be DC.

 

[cardpa]

Well, for those who think Jim Harbaugh would be a good HC here, you may have to rethink that idea.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...t-says/ar-BBFviPS?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

 

[oaken1]

Well, for those who think Jim Harbaugh would be a good HC here, you may have to rethink that idea.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...t-says/ar-BBFviPS?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

thats just crazy

 

[daves]

I've learned through the years that success in the NFL (and any business?) is a product of a LOT of factors, including talent, coaching, health, luck, culture, momentum, etc. Every player doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler, and every member of the coaching staff and front office doesn't have to be a genius.

A couple years ago, the Cardinals had gone from 10-6 (despite ridiculous injuries), to 11-5, to 13-3. Arians was a 2-time Coach of the Year, Keim had won Exec of the Year, Palmer and Honey Badger were offensive and defensive MVP candidates. They probably got too much credit then for the success that resulted when everything came together and went right.

Now things are going badly, and nearly everyone involved in the team is being called (by some) an incompetent idiot. Tendencies and personality traits that were hailed a few years ago are now reviled. Every mistake is magnified and dissected and fingers are pointed everywhere. Bettcher is a fat nincompoop, Arians is arrogant, Keim misses on most of his draft picks because he's trying to impress everyone by finding another diamond in the rough. The entire receiving corps should be cut and the WR and DB coaches fired.

To be sure, there are people who obviously deserve the axe - Amos foremost among them, since special teams have sucked ever since he arrived, even back in the good old days. And for being loyal to a fault to his coaches who have failed, Arians obviously deserves blame. We can ALL agree on these things.

Aside from that though, when luck, health, and momentum are NOT on the team's side and nothing seems to be working, it can be tough to know for sure who's doing a good job and who deserves blame. Just as we now know that the unbridled enthusiasm of 2015 was not warranted, we should also keep in mind that everyone associated with the team did not become an incompetent idiot in 2016.

Can the team be successful again with Arians and some of the same staff? Probably depends on a good draft and free agency, good health, and good luck. Or maybe once things have gone sour, they can never come back without a complete house cleaning. It will be interesting to see.

...dave

 

[cardncubfan]

I've learned through the years that success in the NFL (and any business?) is a product of a LOT of factors, including talent, coaching, health, luck, culture, momentum, etc. Every player doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler, and every member of the coaching staff and front office doesn't have to be a genius.

A couple years ago, the Cardinals had gone from 10-6 (despite ridiculous injuries), to 11-5, to 13-3. Arians was a 2-time Coach of the Year, Keim had won Exec of the Year, Palmer and Honey Badger were offensive and defensive MVP candidates. They probably got too much credit then for the success that resulted when everything came together and went right.

Now things are going badly, and nearly everyone involved in the team is being called (by some) an incompetent idiot. Tendencies and personality traits that were hailed a few years ago are now reviled. Every mistake is magnified and dissected and fingers are pointed everywhere. Bettcher is a fat nincompoop, Arians is arrogant, Keim misses on most of his draft picks because he's trying to impress everyone by finding another diamond in the rough. The entire receiving corps should be cut and the WR and DB coaches fired.

To be sure, there are people who obviously deserve the axe - Amos foremost among them, since special teams have sucked ever since he arrived, even back in the good old days. And for being loyal to a fault to his coaches who have failed, Arians obviously deserves blame. We can ALL agree on these things.

Aside from that though, when luck, health, and momentum are NOT on the team's side and nothing seems to be working, it can be tough to know for sure who's doing a good job and who deserves blame. Just as we now know that the unbridled enthusiasm of 2015 was not warranted, we should also keep in mind that everyone associated with the team did not become an incompetent idiot in 2016.

Can the team be successful again with Arians and some of the same staff? Probably depends on a good draft and free agency, good health, and good luck. Or maybe once things have gone sour, they can never come back without a complete house cleaning. It will be interesting to see.

...dave

Best post of the thread Dave.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've learned through the years that success in the NFL (and any business?) is a product of a LOT of factors, including talent, coaching, health, luck, culture, momentum, etc. Every player doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler, and every member of the coaching staff and front office doesn't have to be a genius.

A couple years ago, the Cardinals had gone from 10-6 (despite ridiculous injuries), to 11-5, to 13-3. Arians was a 2-time Coach of the Year, Keim had won Exec of the Year, Palmer and Honey Badger were offensive and defensive MVP candidates. They probably got too much credit then for the success that resulted when everything came together and went right.

Now things are going badly, and nearly everyone involved in the team is being called (by some) an incompetent idiot. Tendencies and personality traits that were hailed a few years ago are now reviled. Every mistake is magnified and dissected and fingers are pointed everywhere. Bettcher is a fat nincompoop, Arians is arrogant, Keim misses on most of his draft picks because he's trying to impress everyone by finding another diamond in the rough. The entire receiving corps should be cut and the WR and DB coaches fired.

To be sure, there are people who obviously deserve the axe - Amos foremost among them, since special teams have sucked ever since he arrived, even back in the good old days. And for being loyal to a fault to his coaches who have failed, Arians obviously deserves blame. We can ALL agree on these things.

Aside from that though, when luck, health, and momentum are NOT on the team's side and nothing seems to be working, it can be tough to know for sure who's doing a good job and who deserves blame. Just as we now know that the unbridled enthusiasm of 2015 was not warranted, we should also keep in mind that everyone associated with the team did not become an incompetent idiot in 2016.

Can the team be successful again with Arians and some of the same staff? Probably depends on a good draft and free agency, good health, and good luck. Or maybe once things have gone sour, they can never come back without a complete house cleaning. It will be interesting to see.

...dave

I will call you an idiot to your face next time i see you if you advocate bringing this crap heap back for one more run.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I've learned through the years that success in the NFL (and any business?) is a product of a LOT of factors, including talent, coaching, health, luck, culture, momentum, etc. Every player doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler, and every member of the coaching staff and front office doesn't have to be a genius.

A couple years ago, the Cardinals had gone from 10-6 (despite ridiculous injuries), to 11-5, to 13-3. Arians was a 2-time Coach of the Year, Keim had won Exec of the Year, Palmer and Honey Badger were offensive and defensive MVP candidates. They probably got too much credit then for the success that resulted when everything came together and went right.

Now things are going badly, and nearly everyone involved in the team is being called (by some) an incompetent idiot. Tendencies and personality traits that were hailed a few years ago are now reviled. Every mistake is magnified and dissected and fingers are pointed everywhere. Bettcher is a fat nincompoop, Arians is arrogant, Keim misses on most of his draft picks because he's trying to impress everyone by finding another diamond in the rough. The entire receiving corps should be cut and the WR and DB coaches fired.

To be sure, there are people who obviously deserve the axe - Amos foremost among them, since special teams have sucked ever since he arrived, even back in the good old days. And for being loyal to a fault to his coaches who have failed, Arians obviously deserves blame. We can ALL agree on these things.

Aside from that though, when luck, health, and momentum are NOT on the team's side and nothing seems to be working, it can be tough to know for sure who's doing a good job and who deserves blame. Just as we now know that the unbridled enthusiasm of 2015 was not warranted, we should also keep in mind that everyone associated with the team did not become an incompetent idiot in 2016.

Can the team be successful again with Arians and some of the same staff? Probably depends on a good draft and free agency, good health, and good luck. Or maybe once things have gone sour, they can never come back without a complete house cleaning. It will be interesting to see.

...dave

Well said and spot on.

Wasn't it couple years ago people were questioning whether Brady had lost it and needed replaced after a bad Monday night game? Fans are very fickle.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm not a big Cowherd fan but here's a good segment(about the first 5 minutes) where he talks about NFL coaches and expectations.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mitch]

I'm not a big Cowherd fan but here's a good segment(about the first 5 minutes) where he talks about NFL coaches and expectations.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This is an outstanding perspective. The college head coaching gig is more attractive, for one because the head coach has pretty much complete control of the team and yes has to answer to his AD, but that's better than answering to an owner like Jerry Jones or a GM. For two, you recruit your players and don't have to lose out on players via the draft or FA. For three, today the salaries for college head coaches are just as high if not higher than what NFL head coaches make. Most of all, the college coaching life is less demanding year-round---there are more opportunities to have a well-rounded family and social life.

 

[Chopper0080]

I've learned through the years that success in the NFL (and any business?) is a product of a LOT of factors, including talent, coaching, health, luck, culture, momentum, etc. Every player doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler, and every member of the coaching staff and front office doesn't have to be a genius.

A couple years ago, the Cardinals had gone from 10-6 (despite ridiculous injuries), to 11-5, to 13-3. Arians was a 2-time Coach of the Year, Keim had won Exec of the Year, Palmer and Honey Badger were offensive and defensive MVP candidates. They probably got too much credit then for the success that resulted when everything came together and went right.

Now things are going badly, and nearly everyone involved in the team is being called (by some) an incompetent idiot. Tendencies and personality traits that were hailed a few years ago are now reviled. Every mistake is magnified and dissected and fingers are pointed everywhere. Bettcher is a fat nincompoop, Arians is arrogant, Keim misses on most of his draft picks because he's trying to impress everyone by finding another diamond in the rough. The entire receiving corps should be cut and the WR and DB coaches fired.

To be sure, there are people who obviously deserve the axe - Amos foremost among them, since special teams have sucked ever since he arrived, even back in the good old days. And for being loyal to a fault to his coaches who have failed, Arians obviously deserves blame. We can ALL agree on these things.

Aside from that though, when luck, health, and momentum are NOT on the team's side and nothing seems to be working, it can be tough to know for sure who's doing a good job and who deserves blame. Just as we now know that the unbridled enthusiasm of 2015 was not warranted, we should also keep in mind that everyone associated with the team did not become an incompetent idiot in 2016.

Can the team be successful again with Arians and some of the same staff? Probably depends on a good draft and free agency, good health, and good luck. Or maybe once things have gone sour, they can never come back without a complete house cleaning. It will be interesting to see.

...dave

Just for the record...I have never liked Bettcher.

 

[Mitch]

I've learned through the years that success in the NFL (and any business?) is a product of a LOT of factors, including talent, coaching, health, luck, culture, momentum, etc. Every player doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler, and every member of the coaching staff and front office doesn't have to be a genius.

A couple years ago, the Cardinals had gone from 10-6 (despite ridiculous injuries), to 11-5, to 13-3. Arians was a 2-time Coach of the Year, Keim had won Exec of the Year, Palmer and Honey Badger were offensive and defensive MVP candidates. They probably got too much credit then for the success that resulted when everything came together and went right.

Now things are going badly, and nearly everyone involved in the team is being called (by some) an incompetent idiot. Tendencies and personality traits that were hailed a few years ago are now reviled. Every mistake is magnified and dissected and fingers are pointed everywhere. Bettcher is a fat nincompoop, Arians is arrogant, Keim misses on most of his draft picks because he's trying to impress everyone by finding another diamond in the rough. The entire receiving corps should be cut and the WR and DB coaches fired.

To be sure, there are people who obviously deserve the axe - Amos foremost among them, since special teams have sucked ever since he arrived, even back in the good old days. And for being loyal to a fault to his coaches who have failed, Arians obviously deserves blame. We can ALL agree on these things.

Aside from that though, when luck, health, and momentum are NOT on the team's side and nothing seems to be working, it can be tough to know for sure who's doing a good job and who deserves blame. Just as we now know that the unbridled enthusiasm of 2015 was not warranted, we should also keep in mind that everyone associated with the team did not become an incompetent idiot in 2016.

Can the team be successful again with Arians and some of the same staff? Probably depends on a good draft and free agency, good health, and good luck. Or maybe once things have gone sour, they can never come back without a complete house cleaning. It will be interesting to see.

...dave

While it may be extremely difficult for BA to bounce back from his mistakes the past couple of years, I have to say daves how much i respect this post and all of the thought you put into it. Rock on, my friend.

 

[pmacLean]

...
,,, snip a lot
....
we should also keep in mind that everyone associated with the team did not become an incompetent idiot in 2016.

...
...

...dave

I don't see why not.. an entire country appears to have lost it's mind and become incompetent in a single year... don't see why the management of a single team doing it is that odd.

 

[cardncubfan]

I don't see why not.. an entire country appears to have lost it's mind and become incompetent in a single year... don't see why the management of a single team doing it is that odd.

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