scout.com: All the Right Moves

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,878
Reaction score
7,066
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Seeing as how he's the "Cardinals Insider" for Scout.com, and every single article he's written for them has been on the Cardinals, we can't really say he's unbiased.
Exactly. I dare anyone to read their favorite college team's articles on scout.com and seriously tell me they're objective. That is a fan site, it's basically ASFN that costs people a few bucks a month.

Here's the issue: It takes time.
Well, Brad it's been over 30 years for Bill Sr, almost a decade for Mikey, and this is Rod Graves' fifth attempt at an offseason with no improvement. Sorry for the impatience.:rolleyes:
 

Zeno

Ancient
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
15,605
Reaction score
5,479
Location
Fort Myers
There's alot of ways to look at it. No answer I give will satisfy your hunger NOW to win. Your not alone. I wan't to win as bad as any of you. I'm a realist though. Signing everyones castoffs isn't gonna do it , unless your NE and have been knocking on the door AND been THERE allready.

Again nothing I can tell you is gonna ease the pain, but it's the reality. You can have a short run or you can do things the right way and build your championships like NE and Dallas of yesteryear did. Through the young talent they accumulated and solid coaching.

Yes now they are breaking the bank. But they're knocking again. We're still a yr. or two away. Sorry, reality bites.

The problem not everyone out there is a "castoff" you telling me a player like Reggie Kelly wouldn't help this team immediately? That Ken Hamlin wouldn't help this team immediately? That Adalius Thomas couldn't help this team immediately? That re-signing Leonard Davis somehow would have HURT this team? Because him being gone has not all of a sudden made us a better football team thats for sure.

All we've done is re-sign a back-up RB and a special teamer and paid a back-up center top 10 money for his position to compete with our starter from last year.

Why haven't we heard Marc Columbo's name at all? I'd sure feel a lot more comfortable with him starting then Gorin/Ross or stinking Gandy.

Why haven't we heard Hamlins name?

If the excuse is money then thats an awful lame excuse that most fans aren't going to buy. This front office has not show us they have the ability to field a winner--especially when they say that the prices in free agency have caught them by surprise, do some stinking research/homework.
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
The other thing is. We've only been in the new stadium going on our second yr. That means, we've really only had the REAL MEANS to compete in this league for - yes , you got it - 2 yrs!

Well considering it was the B's fault for moving their team without having a stadium deal in place then taking more then a decade to get one is their fault to begin with. I give them no sympathy or let them use it as a valid excuse.
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
It takes time....yeah tell that to New Orleans from drafting #2 to being the #2 seed in the NFC in one season. Jets from drafting #4 to playoffs in 1 season, Titans from #3 to .500 football in 1 season(which would be better than all but 1 season we've had in AZ).

That be patient garbage is just that garbage. A good front office and coaching staff can turn around a team in a season or 2.

Takes time my rear end.

Yeah , but no one wanted to be exiled here. They knew we really couldn't compete (before the new stadium came to be).

We couldn't attract the talent or the coaches. No real top caliber coaches wanted this situation.

As for those other teams. Lets see if it's sustainable before we rant about what they've really accomplished.

NO did have a dream run season. But I put that on early season emotion coming back home. A solid head coach pickup and everything falling in their favor with Brees and Bush coming there. Everyone will be ready for them now. It'll be interesting. They'll all play tougher schedules this coming season.
 

Zeno

Ancient
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
15,605
Reaction score
5,479
Location
Fort Myers
Yeah , but no one wanted to be exiled here. They knew we really couldn't compete (before the new stadium came to be).

We couldn't attract the talent or the coaches. No real top caliber coaches wanted this situation.

As for those other teams. Lets see if it's sustainable before we rant about what they've really accomplished.

NO did have a dream run season. But I put that on early season emotion coming back home. A solid head coach pickup and everything falling in their favor with Brees and Bush coming there. Everyone will be ready for them now. It'll be interesting. They'll all play tougher schedules this coming season.


Are you fricking kidding me!?!?!? You think New Orleans had a great situation to go to? Their owner was threatening to move the team AFTER the hurricane and their city is a mess! They had just fired a coach and given a head coach his first gig.

The only credence you may have is nobody wants to work for an incompetent owner and a clueless GM...then I can understand why they stay away.
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
The problem not everyone out there is a "castoff" you telling me a player like Reggie Kelly wouldn't help this team immediately? That Ken Hamlin wouldn't help this team immediately? That Adalius Thomas couldn't help this team immediately? That re-signing Leonard Davis somehow would have HURT this team? Because him being gone has not all of a sudden made us a better football team thats for sure.

All we've done is re-sign a back-up RB and a special teamer and paid a back-up center top 10 money for his position to compete with our starter from last year.

Why haven't we heard Marc Columbo's name at all? I'd sure feel a lot more comfortable with him starting then Gorin/Ross or stinking Gandy.

Why haven't we heard Hamlins name?

If the excuse is money then thats an awful lame excuse that most fans aren't going to buy. This front office has not show us they have the ability to field a winner--especially when they say that the prices in free agency have caught them by surprise, do some stinking research/homework.

I hear, your frustrated. I can relate. Let's see what the next two weeks brings. Again they said they'd be aggressive, going after depth. In this market after the stars sign it should be our turn. It'll happen - soon. It's not gonna be where everyone goes - yeah it's gonna turn us around now. It's gonna be solid players who push starters who're not afraid to battle to win spots. Not so called starters who are handed their jobs.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
40,330
Reaction score
24,954
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
There's alot of ways to look at it. No answer I give will satisfy your hunger NOW to win. Your not alone. I wan't to win as bad as any of you. I'm a realist though. Signing everyones castoffs isn't gonna do it , unless your NE and have been knocking on the door AND been THERE allready.

Again nothing I can tell you is gonna ease the pain, but it's the reality. You can have a short run or you can do things the right way and build your championships like NE and Dallas of yesteryear did. Through the young talent they accumulated and solid coaching.

Yes now they are breaking the bank. But they're knocking again. We're still a yr. or two away. Sorry, reality bites.

The other thing is. We've only been in the new stadium going on our second yr. That means, we've really only had the REAL MEANS to compete in this league for - yes , you got it - 2 yrs!

I'm sorry, but your dinosaur-type thinking that certainly worked perfectly about 10 years or more ago is exactly the type of thinking that keeps us perpetual losers in the NFL. Sadly, I believe your attitude is the prevalent attitude at Cards HQ.

There IS no rebuilding any more in the NFL. You have a very, very small window to win before you lose your best players. It is very easy to quickly turn a team around. How many teams each year come out of nowhere to compete? How many teams turn it around in one year? Quite a few. Patience, in this context, is synonymous with being hoodwinked. The FO WANTS you to buy into the idea of patience. It'll allow them to continue accellerating bonuses and being parsimonious to the point of idiocy while fans like you keep gobbling down the spoon-fed excuses.
 

CardShark

DEAL WITH IT!
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Posts
2,584
Reaction score
0
Location
Florence, Arizona
I'm sorry, but your dinosaur-type thinking that certainly worked perfectly about 10 years or more ago is exactly the type of thinking that keeps us perpetual losers in the NFL. Sadly, I believe your attitude is the prevalent attitude at Cards HQ.

There IS no rebuilding any more in the NFL. You have a very, very small window to win before you lose your best players. It is very easy to quickly turn a team around. How many teams each year come out of nowhere to compete? How many teams turn it around in one year? Quite a few. Patience, in this context, is synonymous with being hoodwinked. The FO WANTS you to buy into the idea of patience. It'll allow them to continue accellerating bonuses and being parsimonious to the point of idiocy while fans like you keep gobbling down the spoon-fed excuses.

I have to agree.
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
Are you fricking kidding me!?!?!? You think New Orleans had a great situation to go to? Their owner was threatening to move the team AFTER the hurricane and their city is a mess! They had just fired a coach and given a head coach his first gig.

The only credence you may have is nobody wants to work for an incompetent owner and a clueless GM...then I can understand why they stay away.

They chose other better situations because the word was out that we really could not compete. The situation was bad here and everyone knew it. The only ones that came back then were Buddy's boys (Joyner his washed up buddy ?) and I'm not even gonna get into all that now. But the best we could do were 2nd and 3rd tier FA's. I'm not gonna get into who would coach here. But they weren't lining up for it.

NO situation is a total anomoly. Young coach that lights it on fire his 1st yr. in the league with Brees exceeding everyones expectations. Deuce coming back big from career threatening injury . Bush falling into their laps. The emotion of the fans of them coming back home. It was a dream run for them.
 

Wildfire

Registered
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Posts
261
Reaction score
46
Location
Flower Mound, TX
It is very easy to quickly turn a team around. How many teams each year come out of nowhere to compete? How many teams turn it around in one year? Quite a few.

It's amazing that here we sit, another year of Free Agency under way, and we want the Cards to sign every player ever memtioned as a free agent.

Maybe Whiz has taken a look at the players that he has on the roster and the ones that have come in and decided that he didn't want any part of them for his team. It's his decison to make.

The classic example is LD, and I'm glad he's long gone.

I believe that Whiz has re-signed and signed the players that HE wants to build HIS team with. I also don't think that it's "easy" to turn any team around without a great coach and a great staff around him, but we've got them this year.

Why don't we give Whiz his opportunity to turn the Cards around, he just may do it this year.

If you want to say I drink Kool-Aid, well I guess I've been drinking it for 40+ years.
 

AntSports Steve

Cardinals Future GM
Joined
May 16, 2002
Posts
1,119
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Arizona
The L.Davis thing... I'm glad he's gone.... It sure would have been damn nice to have this replacement on the roster last year if they were planning on letting him go. I don't care if he's gone, I want to know who is going to take his place? Right now it looks like Gandy or Ross. Or, coaching them up....

I've heard coaching them up for years and years. And Ross and Gandy have already proven that they get QBs killed. I'd like to enjoy the rein of Matt L for a little longer than Rosenbach.

Also another thing makes me mad. Why would the Cards spend huge $$$s on Edge and then leave the OL in flux? Are they trying to ruin their own free agents chances? Edge ran hard and kicked @ss for as good as he could. But damn, that OL the first 8 games made life horrible.

So, they finally figure out a OL that works and now they stepped backwards with "what appears to be No Plan" in place. It sure would be nice to see the newspaper tomorrow saying "Cards trying to contact Dallas OT". It sure would show everyone that they are trying to win now.

Throw the kitchen sink at him. 7M for 7 years sounds good to me.
 

AntSports Steve

Cardinals Future GM
Joined
May 16, 2002
Posts
1,119
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Arizona
Why don't we give Whiz his opportunity to turn the Cards around, he just may do it this year.

The Cards front office handicaps all their coaches. They didn't give McGinnins any good players and screwed him on the cap.

D. Green, he wanted more players and an OL and they "Turned off the money".

The Cards do everything they can to screw their coaches. This year, they pushed 2008 bonus into this season so the coaches won't be able to get top talent.

If Whiz wins, it will be despite the front office.

But, back to the quote. Why doesn't the Cardinal front office give Whiz his opportunity to turn the Cards around?

The front office is screwing the fans, players and coaches out of wins.
 
Last edited:

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
Well if thats the case we don't need any new players. There are plenty of mediocre players in Arizona already.

No, we don't have mediocre players in AZ, our players downright suck. We are trying to uprgrade to mediocre

Just how long does it take to "build through the draft" 10,15,20 years?


I wish. Cause it has been about 40 years and the Cardinals haven't built anything.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
I'm sorry, but your dinosaur-type thinking that certainly worked perfectly about 10 years or more ago is exactly the type of thinking that keeps us perpetual losers in the NFL. Sadly, I believe your attitude is the prevalent attitude at Cards HQ.

There IS no rebuilding any more in the NFL. You have a very, very small window to win before you lose your best players. It is very easy to quickly turn a team around. How many teams each year come out of nowhere to compete? How many teams turn it around in one year? Quite a few. Patience, in this context, is synonymous with being hoodwinked. The FO WANTS you to buy into the idea of patience. It'll allow them to continue accellerating bonuses and being parsimonious to the point of idiocy while fans like you keep gobbling down the spoon-fed excuses.

How come all the hysterical sky is falling fans are ranting and raving and acting like fools? You people were willing to give ******* Green a little time to see what he could do yet you people have a tantrum a week into free agency and you won`t even give Whis and crew a chance.Let Whis have some time already.It isn`t the end of the world or the end of Free agency.Lighten up people.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
40,330
Reaction score
24,954
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
How come all the hysterical sky is falling fans are ranting and raving and acting like fools? You people were willing to give ******* Green a little time to see what he could do yet you people have a tantrum a week into free agency and you won`t even give Whis and crew a chance.Let Whis have some time already.It isn`t the end of the world or the end of Free agency.Lighten up people.

Right, who is left in FA that will start at LT? Who on our roster? Who that we KNOW we can get in the draft that we KNOW can be our starting LT from day one? Whoops, gee, not really anybody, huh? Where's that famous plan?

I'm giving Whiz all the benefit of the doubt in the world. He's the coach. We're jacking up FA, and we have been told without a shadow of a doubt that it falls on Graves.
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,600
Reaction score
7,948
One point the guy forgot to make was that Graves came out and said "we are going to be very aggressive in free agency." It sounds to me like Graves mis-read the market AGAIN.I'm sure his idea was to get a guy like Gurode,or someone else, that never hit the market. Well, there's always the June 1st cuts that he likes to rely on.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
The situation was bad here and everyone knew it. The only ones that came back then were Buddy's boys (Joyner his washed up buddy ?)

And amazingly Buddy posted the 2nd best record ever in Arizona and had the highest ranked defense in 25 years.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
Perhaps we wouldn't have quite the issue with the Oline if we didn't get rid of LJ Shelton, Pete Kendall, and even Anthony Clement???

Funny that there is another thread talking about how awful those guys were and calling them the "Big Red Lie".
 

blindseyed

I'm saying you ARE stuck in Wichita
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Posts
8,100
Reaction score
5,908
Location
Verrado
It's not the fans they should be worried about enduring theu another losing season, it's Q and Fitz and good players that are going to bolt as soon as their contracts are up
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
I think Keller is onto something at least in concept.

But like others here, I can't help noticing how quickly teams llike NO and the Jets (and for that matter, Dallas under Parcells) were able to turn things around.

And as a (really) old timer, I can't help but be concerned about a pattern starting to repeat itself. It goes like this:

1. The Cardinal front office tells the public that it's operating on sound football knowledge and doesn't plan to "do anything really crazy."

2. They implore us to be patient, because they "have a plan."

3. Fans - who have accurately figured out which areas on the roster need shoring up - keep waiting and waiting and waiting for the front office to take action.

4. But at some tipping point in time, it becomes more and more apparent that little if anything is going to happen.

There were sporadic exceptions to this pattern during the past 3 years, but I'm getting that sinking feeling in my stomach that, once again, we are reverting to our old ways and closing in on that tipping point.

Even if we do sign Mike Gandy, are we all that confident that an offensive line consisting of Gandy, M Brown, Johnson, Lutui and Wells will be good enough to protect Leinart and open up holes for Edge? And (given the deafening silence of the last 2 days and loss of Kelly) what if we don't sign Gandy? Then what?

Yup. Keller has his point, but my concern is that the Cardinals are operating too far south of "caution" than even Keller would concede.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
557,518
Posts
5,447,770
Members
6,335
Latest member
zbeaster
Top