Sean Salsbury said Denny's job is safe but not the players

[Lefty]

Sean said the Cardinals will not be able to recover from this loss and that the season is over for them. He said Denny Green's job is safe but not for some players. He also said something like practice is going to be hell for the players this week.

 

[vinnymac]

practice should have been hell for players from the beginning. i guess james isn't going to have those cake walk practices. hopefully the offensive line are going to be doing bear crawls and wind sprints all day long.

 

[Jasper]

Denny was truely pissed. I think Rowen should be considered insecure for those idiot up the middle 1 yard gain 1st downs something like 4-5 times in a row.

I actually think this loss would make us stronger and more wild next game.

 

[AZCB34]

Denny was truely pissed. I think Rowen should be considered insecure for those idiot up the middle 1 yard gain 1st downs something like 4-5 times in a row.

I actually think this loss would make us stronger and more wild next game.

Rowen's play calling was horrible after it went to 14-0 but at what point will Denny be held accountable for the plays being called within his offensive system? I mean, I saw him with a headset on last night and it even had one of those neat little things that lets you talk to other people. At what point does he not step up and ask his coaches, during the game, WTF is going through their minds when they are calling plays.

Denny saying "The Bears are what we thought they were" is great but it seems to me that he and his coaches don't know what their own team really is and that is a passing team. I know teams must run the ball but reality has this way of dictating what people do.

People are excited Denny showed anger at the presser but he is failing this team and worst of all, he is failing you, the hardcore Cards fans

 

[football karma]

To a certain degree -- up by 17 with a quarter to play and the Bears offense showing nothing --

I think Denny was more than happy to run it three times, punt it and let his defense hold the game. I think with having a rookie qB winging it in such a situation makes a interception return or a sack/fumble return (which is exactly what happened) far more likely than Edge fumbling it ( which happened).

Its easy to say in a loss that Denny was way to conservative, but had Leinart thrown two 4th quarter interceptions for TDs we would all be hollering for him to have run the ball more.

 

[AZCB34]

Its easy to say in a loss that Denny was way to conservative, but had Leinart thrown two 4th quarter interceptions for TDs we would all be hollering for him to have run the ball more.

But throwing the ball is what the Cards really are. At what point do you finally acknowledge you are just not a good running team? This is week 6 and they still haven't figured out they cannot run with a piss poor run blocking OL and a RB that has no apparent burst anymore.

Charels Barkley thought the Cards were being too passive...CHARLES BARKLEY thought they were being too passive because he knows what kind of team the Cards really are.

 

[Dr. Jones]

When it was 2nd and 3 on the last drive you can see Denny mouth the words "Let's give it to Edge" on the TV.

He was fine with our play calling.

 

[vinnymac]

what is this to conservitive bs. they put the ball up in the air 42 times. they ran the ball over forty times. they lost the game because of a couple of fumbles. those plays should have never have happen. you can say the miss field goal. rackers should have not been in that situation. it is what it is. the cardinals lost. they should be 4-2 right now, but they are 1-5 with a five game losing streak. hopefully they can use the raidiers as a stepping stone in the right direction.

 

[football karma]

But throwing the ball is what the Cards really are. At what point do you finally acknowledge you are just not a good running team? This is week 6 and they still haven't figured out they cannot run with a piss poor run blocking OL and a RB that has no apparent burst anymore.

Charels Barkley thought the Cards were being too passive...CHARLES BARKLEY thought they were being too passive because he knows what kind of team the Cards really are.

I cant disagree-- I also understand Denny's playcalling

I do think that last night Leinart proved he can be trusted with the football--

at this point, I think you have to throw out the "he is a rookie QB, so I cant ask him to do too much". I think Matt has proven that he is just as trustworthy as almost any veteran QB.

 

[BigRedArk]

But throwing the ball is what the Cards really are. At what point do you finally acknowledge you are just not a good running team? This is week 6 and they still haven't figured out they cannot run with a piss poor run blocking OL and a RB that has no apparent burst anymore.

Charels Barkley thought the Cards were being too passive...CHARLES BARKLEY thought they were being too passive because he knows what kind of team the Cards really are.

You cannot pass every down though. After a short while the D will wise up and stop that.

 

[AZCB34]

You cannot pass every down though. After a short while the D will wise up and stop that.

And how do you do that? You drop men out of the box and then what can happen to the running game? It may actually start working.

I am not saying the Cards should never run it but you have to understand what kind of team you really are and what your REAL strength is and the Cards went away from their strength (passing) and tried to jam it down the Bears throats when the Bears had 8-9 men in the box. That is like carrying a plugged in toaster and walking through a car wash...you are going to get your ass zapped.

The Cards are still a passing team and if the way to win it is passing alot more than running it, then so be it. You do what works for you.

 

[BigRedArk]

And how do you do that? You drop men out of the box and then what can happen to the running game? It may actually start working.

I am not saying the Cards should never run it but you have to understand what kind of team you really are and what your REAL strength is and the Cards went away from their strength (passing) and tried to jam it down the Bears throats when the Bears had 8-9 men in the box. That is like carrying a plugged in toaster and walking through a car wash...you are going to get your ass zapped.

The Cards are still a passing team and if the way to win it is passing alot more than running it, then so be it. You do what works for you.

But we did pass the ball in the second half last night didn't we?

 

[Wild Card]

You cannot pass every down though. After a short while the D will wise up and stop that.

BRA:

Like the Chicago defense did, with the game on the line, when Leinart completed 4 of 5 to move the Cardinals in range for what should have been the game-winning FG?

You're correct that the Cards can't pass every down. But they can use the pass to set up the run, and not become predictable in their play calling based on down and distance. This OL isn't good enough to make the running game go if the opponent's defense knows what's coming.

Last night, the Cardinals offense went conservative far too soon, for far too long. And it cost them the game.

WC

 

[AZCB34]

But we did pass the ball in the second half last night didn't we?

Of course but I think they were trying to run the ball too much when they are clearly a pass first team. The Bears were putting 8 men in the box against the run. and forcing the Cards into 2nd and 3rd and long. The Cards went away from what got them where they were in the 1st quarter and it cost them. I presonally think Edge's little tantrums has altered the play calling thought process and it hurt the team last night.

Leinart, as someone else has pointed out, has already proven...in his two starts, that he can be trusted with hanging onto the ball. Alot of QBs would have fumbled on that sack...hard to fault him there. The true playmakers on this team are at QB and WR.

 

[BigRedArk]

BRA:

Like the Chicago defense did, with the game on the line, when Leinart completed 4 of 5 to move the Cardinals in range for what should have been the game-winning FG?

You're correct that the Cards can't pass every down. But they can use the pass to set up the run, and not become predictable in their play calling based on down and distance. This OL isn't good enough to make the running game go if the opponent's defense knows what's coming.

Last night, the Cardinals offense went conservative far too soon, for far too long. And it cost them the game.

WC

I don't know maybe you have to have a good mix between throwing and running to keep the opponents D on their heels? Maybe we should just take what the D gives us and exploit that be it the run or the pass. What I am trying to say is that with hindsight perhaps it is too easy to say we should have done this or that on offense. Maybe if we can just eliminate the turnovers? Maybe cover punts better?

 

[BigRedArk]

Of course but I think they were trying to run the ball too much when they are clearly a pass first team. The Bears were putting 8 men in the box against the run. and forcing the Cards into 2nd and 3rd and long. The Cards went away from what got them where they were in the 1st quarter and it cost them. I presonally think Edge's little tantrums has altered the play calling thought process and it hurt the team last night.

Leinart, as someone else has pointed out, has already proven...in his two starts, that he can be trusted with hanging onto the ball. Alot of QBs would have fumbled on that sack...hard to fault him there. The true playmakers on this team are at QB and WR.

We should have been able to gain more yards when we passed with 8 in the box though in the second half shouldn't we? Why didn't we? Or gained enough to win the game. If we pass the ball more in the second half we don't milk the clock either. I thought we had a good mix of both running and throwing in the 1st quarter and had the Bears D on their heels. That is what might work better for us I contend. Not one or the other.

 

[conraddobler]

If's and buts.

The bottom line is that this was a fluke, the biggest fluke in history and it took a team scoring 2 defensive touchdowns and a punt return for a touchdown to pull it off.

The strategy of running was correct, the plays called you can argue with in terms of running straight up the gut, not varying it better sure but you're just missing the point.

I truly believe that if they don't get those fumbles run all the way back they don't score a td anyway and we win still.

This was a good loss, it wakes everyone up, it's like an achoholic bottoming out, they have no where else to go but to realize the problems and fix them.

 

[AZCB34]

I don't know maybe you have to have a good mix between throwing and running to keep the opponents D on their heels? Maybe we should just take what the D gives us and exploit that be it the run or the pass. What I am trying to say is that with hindsight perhaps it is too easy to say we should have done this or that on offense. Maybe if we can just eliminate the turnovers? Maybe cover punts better?

It is very easy to use hindsight but how many people who were at the game or watching in real time kept asking themselves why they were trying to pound the ball when it was clear they couldn't.

I agree with you 100% that the Cards cannot just chuck the ball all over the place but the Bears were offering up the passing game by crowding the box and the Cards kept wanting to run right into the teeth of the Bears D calls.

I will say this though. Even though I think the Cards coaches blew the game with their passive approach after having a 14-0 lead and the players could executed a running play to save their jobs, I firmly believe the Cards outcoached the Bears coaches almost the enitre game (Bears seemed to make some good adjustments defensively). And for me to give Denny any kind of credit for his coaching acumen is painful because he flat out sucks as HC.

 

[ajcardfan]

It is very easy to use hindsight but how many people who were at the game or watching in real time kept asking themselves why they were trying to pound the ball when it was clear they couldn't.

On Sunday night, Shanahan's play calling was even more conservative than Green's with even less of a lead. Why? He knew there was no way in hell the Raiders could drive the field for a TD on their defense. It was the right strategy for Denver. It was right for us because Grossman was a BASKET case and they were doing NOTHING on our defense. We did try to come out throwing on a drive in the 3rd and at 10:54 in the fourth and both times punted after running less than a minute off the clock.

Like conrad said, I heard a couple of national guys say the exact same thing. It was fluky as hell that they not only cause two fumbles but they bounce perfectly for easy scores. Even then, we still wind up with a very makeable FG to win and last year's Pro Bowl kicker misses it.

 

[AZCB34]

We should have been able to gain more yards when we passed with 8 in the box though in the second half shouldn't we? Why didn't we? Or gained enough to win the game. If we pass the ball more in the second half we don't milk the clock either. I thought we had a good mix of both running and throwing in the 1st quarter and had the Bears D on their heels. That is what might work better for us I contend. Not one or the other.

That is the wierd question...why did the passing game that looked unstoppable in the first quarter and most of the first half look weaker in the second half? The only thing I can think is they were facing alot more 2nd and long and 3rd and long and they didn't really face that alot early in the game.

I am not advocating chucking the ball all over the field by any meanss. If you know anything about my posts on this board and football philosophy, you will know I am a run often kind of guy becasue it has been proven time and again that winning teams run the ball and stop the run. The Cards simply cannot run the ball well and we have known that for 6 weeks now.

The Cards got away from what was working for them and to be honest, I don't think it was anything the Bears suddenly started doing different. They made adjustments defensively but I wonder how well the Cards adjusted from there.

 

[AZCB34]

On Sunday night, Shanahan's play calling was even more conservative than Green's with even less of a lead. Why? He knew there was no way in hell the Raiders could drive the field for a TD on their defense. It was the right strategy for Denver. It was right for us because Grossman was a BASKET case and they were doing NOTHING on our defense. We did try to come out throwing on a drive in the 3rd and at 10:54 in the fourth and both times punted after running less than a minute off the clock.

Like conrad said, I heard a couple of national guys say the exact same thing. It was fluky as hell that they not only cause two fumbles but they bounce perfectly for easy scores. Even then, we still wind up with a very makeable FG to win and last year's Pro Bowl kicker misses it.

OK, I will not pursue this subject anymore. I just think the Cards got away from what made them successful last night (too early for sure) and I think it was one fairly major reason the Cards lost this fluky game.

 

[conraddobler]

On Sunday night, Shanahan's play calling was even more conservative than Green's with even less of a lead. Why? He knew there was no way in hell the Raiders could drive the field for a TD on their defense. It was the right strategy for Denver. It was right for us because Grossman was a BASKET case and they were doing NOTHING on our defense. We did try to come out throwing on a drive in the 3rd and at 10:54 in the fourth and both times punted after running less than a minute off the clock.

Like conrad said, I heard a couple of national guys say the exact same thing. It was fluky as hell that they not only cause two fumbles but they bounce perfectly for easy scores. Even then, we still wind up with a very makeable FG to win and last year's Pro Bowl kicker misses it.

Exactly in fact we could have punted on first down out of bounds and won the game easily.

It was the correct strategy, there is no ifs about it, the strategy was correct the worst thing you could do there is a pick 6, what they did was so flukeish I doubt we ever see that again in our lifetime, it was like the Philly fumble that caused kneel downs times 3, it was a fluke.

 

[CardinalChris]

It just isn't that hard, guys. Our big players didn't make the plays star players make on winning teams. Our all-pro kicker missed. Our stud RB who never fumbles did. I can almost excuse the punt return for a TD because they are scrubs who do stupid things. HOWEVER, our big name guys, heck even just ONE of them makes a play and we win. Our big-time guys need to start making big-time plays.

 

[JC_AZ]

You cannot pass every down though. After a short while the D will wise up and stop that.

A mix of both is necesary to beat any defense, but there is NO RULE that is ALWAYS required to set up the pass with the run...if your strength is doing the reverse (as demonstrated in EVERY GAME this year... except Seattle), then DO WHAT WORKS. In the first half AGAIN, we started with the short-quick passes that moved us down the field and our running game actually got a few chunks to move the chains...IT WAS WORKING!!!! Then, as we seem to believe is the SOP, we go run up the middle, use the clock and get 3rd and LONG for the rest of the game....what kind of thinking is that? Damn Bears fans behind me were calling our plays for the whole second half and they were WASTED! Ya think that maybe Ron Rivera and the #1 ranked D in the NFL did not have a clue what was coming? DO WHAT WORKS, and when the figure it out.. ADJUST! Every team we play sees how we go 'turtle' after we get a lead and they gain confidence in their ability to come back...until Rowen and DG recognize that we need to go full throttle to win games... we will continue on the same path. You don't fix failure by continuing on the same path that led you there TWO times before!

 

[CardLogic]

We did try to come out throwing on a drive in the 3rd and at 10:54 in the fourth and both times punted after running less than a minute off the clock.

I have seen this statement or something similar several times and it is blatently FALSE!!!

During the entire 3rd and 4th quarters there were only two Cardinal's possessions in which they did not handoff to James on first down. The first was their second series of the half, a drive early in the 3rd when the Cardinals went 49 yards and scored a field goal. The other was the Cardinals last possession of the game where they drove into FG range and Rackers missed.

The remainder of the entire half the Cardinals handed the ball to James on first down - including ELEVEN STRAIGHT FIRST DOWN TRIES!

Here is what that looked like: