Seattle game saves Vance Joseph's job

[Chopper0080]

The SB Falcons version of Alford most definitely is better than Murphy. Will we ever see that Alford again? Broken foot cost us that opportunity so we wait till next season. Alford dealt with nagging injuries the whole season after the Falcons SB run, that's why he was released imo. Murphy is a rookie & younger obviously, probably has more upside considering his age? Alford made plays that yr during the Falcons SB run that I've yet to see Murphy make. Time will tell. Murphy isn't afraid to tackle, he definitely has the leg up on Alford in that category. I will tell you this. It's a damn shame we didn't get to see this team with a healthy Alford, Gilbert & Butler. Plus Philon pulling a gun on a stripper, so stupid. With all those players on this team, I could see maybe 3-4 more wins. Hell, without them we could've won at least 4-5 more. Play or two here or there.

Wasn't that three seasons ago?

 

[az jam]

I don't agree with premise that one game or even two game make or break a coach or player for that matter. It's a season long evaluation.... IMO

I agree to an extant but your have to show improvement and the defense has the past two games. Last year nothing got any better.

 

[cardncubfan]

I think VJ's job is safe. If the defense showed zero improvement or had gotten worse then I would say he was gone. The last 2 games definitely showed improvement. I don't think it's a coincident that is was better with PP just covering one wr throughout the game. Next week will be telling. We'll see if there's any adjustments from the prior matchup.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think they were both safe. You can't continue to make wholesale changes every year & expect good results. I'm not 100% sold on VJ, but he did come into a very difficult situation. Kudos to him for having that side of the ball ready to play yesterday. I'm normally a "get the best draft pick possible guy", but beating Carroll is too much fun to watch. Upset with the Murray hammy issue, but Hundley was prepared to win that game. Hell, kudos to the entire team. You have to go back to 2015 to see a Cardinal team play that well!!

Imo VJ & SK were both safe. SK is buddies with MB & as long as fans are showing up, or he does something stupid again (DUI) he ain't going anywhere? You can hear it in the voice of KK, when asked a few weeks back about VJ's job. I don't remember his exact words but they were of a positive nature, basically, he ain't going anywhere. I've been down on VJ for a good bit now, but the last 2 games they've played well, he simplified the defense. Now guys have been communicating as to whom to cover, flying to the ball & making plays. PP said the other day he now gets the defense. Understands the techniques on different coverages that have been changed since training camp. Maybe PP is now relating those techniques to other DB's? Something has happened for sure. They damn sure wasn't getting it 3 games ago & before. There seemed to be 5 guys around the ball on every tackle Sunday. JT & BB were knocking the $#/+ out of guys. Kerr looked good, Walker looked good, Chris Jones looked good, even Reddick looked better. Simplifying the defense has helped, I can't figure out why VJ didn't do this earlier? Guys seem to know their responsibilities now & just fly to the ball, without over thinking what they're supposed to do. The FO knows we need better personnel on defense & want continuity. We can't keep changing DC's. All that being said, I look at the whole body of work, the entire season, not just the last few games. We've sucked all yr basically. Continuity..............players see the defense now working & come back next season thinking "I know this defense & it works". As opposed to "same ole defense that doesn't work". Changes their whole mindset if they start the season with something they are familiar with & know it works. We are currently 31st in total defense, just ahead of the Dolphins. If we get blown out by the Rams again, whatever confidence the players have gained in the last few games may be lost? VJ will be back IMO, whether we like it or not.

This... continuity

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Wasn't that three seasons ago?

Yes. Patriots won that one, then lost to the Eagles, then beat the Rams.

 

[ajcardfan]

This... continuity

Yes. I feel confident that the plan was to give these guys two years matter what. At some point, you have to keep some continuity or you become the Browns or the Redskins the first decade under snyder.

 

[slanidrac16]

Anybody notice some of the defensive personnel sets? On more than a few occasions we went with one d-lineman and 5 linebackers. Totally confused the Seahawks and kept Wilson “ in the box”. Pretty cool.

 

[JeffGollin]

A lot goes into coordination/position coaching. There are probably a multitude of back stories involving approaches, schemes, adjustments, teaching, personal relationships and evaluation.

Lots of opinion here, but a lot of it is based on little if any solid info. For example, Under VJ, we were man-handled early by LA, Baltimore and Seattle, but later on the defense looked good vs. Cleveland and Seattle (2). Peterson was slow to come back after his suspension. How do we know whether the recent upturn was due to VJ or whether it was due to other factors?

My bias always tilts toward coaching stability, and I liked the aggressiveness of the defense vs. Cleveland and Seattle under VJ, so I'd be inclined to keep him. But that's based on insufficient info.

 

[ajcardfan]

A lot goes into coordination/position coaching. There are probably a multitude of back stories involving approaches, schemes, adjustments, teaching, personal relationships and evaluation.

Lots of opinion here, but a lot of it is based on little if any solid info. For example, Under VJ, we were man-handled early by LA, Baltimore and Seattle, but later on the defense looked good vs. Cleveland and Seattle (2). Peterson was slow to come back after his suspension. How do we know whether the recent upturn was due to VJ or whether it was due to other factors?

My bias always tilts toward coaching stability, and I liked the aggressiveness of the defense vs. Cleveland and Seattle under VJ, so I'd be inclined to keep him. But that's based on insufficient info.

I think it is also fair to wonder if cutting Brock and Suggs was addition by subtraction. Attitude change...

 

[JeffGollin]

I think it is also fair to wonder if cutting Brock and Suggs was addition by subtraction. Attitude change...

Good point. But the question remains: Was cutting them "proactive?" Or should VJ or Keim be held accountable for signing guys who didn't work out?

Note - When we signed each of them, I had no misgivings. I thought both signings made sense. Go figure.

 

[CardNots]

Petersons game legs return
+
Goodbye Skaggs
+
Reddick utilization change
+
Jalen set free to hunt
+
Simplify scheme
=
Improved defensive play

Show me one more game, then I’ll believe.

was it VJ calling these shots? If so then I’m good with him staying.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Anybody notice some of the defensive personnel sets? On more than a few occasions we went with one d-lineman and 5 linebackers. Totally confused the Seahawks and kept Wilson “ in the box”. Pretty cool.

Plus the edge rushers never went too deep, kept the edges contained. I also noticed a bunch of twists from the interior DL. The twists confused the Seattle OL & caused RW to never be comfortable stepping up in the pocket.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

A lot goes into coordination/position coaching. There are probably a multitude of back stories involving approaches, schemes, adjustments, teaching, personal relationships and evaluation.

Lots of opinion here, but a lot of it is based on little if any solid info. For example, Under VJ, we were man-handled early by LA, Baltimore and Seattle, but later on the defense looked good vs. Cleveland and Seattle (2). Peterson was slow to come back after his suspension. How do we know whether the recent upturn was due to VJ or whether it was due to other factors?

My bias always tilts toward coaching stability, and I liked the aggressiveness of the defense vs. Cleveland and Seattle under VJ, so I'd be inclined to keep him. But that's based on insufficient info.

PP mentioned his game legs finally coming back to him. Then he was asked again if his slow start was about his game legs. He backtracked a little at that point from the legs to technique. Said he finally learned the techniques being asked of him on certain coverages from VJ that had changed since training camp. I have no idea. I hope if VJ is kept, he keeps the defensive calls simple moving forward. This defense will have many new faces next season, it needs to stay simple for the new guys. Otherwise we could be looking at another 13-14 games in next yr before they get it down?

 

[Chopper0080]

Continuity is the only reason to keep Vance but it is a good one. I struggle with Vance so it is always easy for me to argue to move on.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Continuity is the only reason to keep Vance but it is a good one. I struggle with Vance so it is always easy for me to argue to move on.

I think people forget the Vance Joseph has only been a DC for one year prior to being here (Miami), so this is his second year. I wasn't impressed with Bettcher his first two years, even though the results turned out decent, but felt like his success was due to having a strong coaching staff and getting to assume a defense that was already established.

I really don't know how good or bad Joseph can be next year, so it will be interesting to see if he stays but some of his coaches turnover and/or if he seems to change some of his approaches with experience and working with KK.

 

[football karma]

Petersons game legs return
+
Goodbye Skaggs
+
Reddick utilization change
+
Jalen set free to hunt
+
Simplify scheme
=
Improved defensive play

Show me one more game, then I’ll believe.

was it VJ calling these shots? If so then I’m good with him staying.

this is the Cardinals Underground theory

 

[TheCardFan]

Clancy is available.

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[Ronin]

Yes it did.

 

[Ronin]

Josh Weinfuss (@joshweinfuss)
12/30/19, 8:09 AM
“Vance will be back.” - Kliff Kingsbury.

 

[Ronin]

scott bordow (@sbordow)
12/30/19, 8:10 AM
Kingsbury said he never wavered on Vance Joseph

 

[PACardsFan]

scott bordow (@sbordow)
12/30/19, 8:10 AM
Kingsbury said he never wavered on Vance Joseph

I'm not a VJ fan, at least not yet. But firing a minority HC/DC after 1 year in consecutive years would have created quite the stir. We all know that Wilks definitely deserved to be fired. I think that VJ may have deserved the benefit of the doubt. Maybe. Give him more talent & let's see how it pans out. After last year's one & done coaching staff, this team does need some continuity.

 

[slanidrac16]

I'm not a VJ fan, at least not yet. But firing a minority HC/DC after 1 year in consecutive years would have created quite the stir. We all know that Wilks definitely deserved to be fired. I think that VJ may have deserved the benefit of the doubt. Maybe. Give him more talent & let's see how it pans out. After last year's one & done coaching staff, this team does need some continuity.

I kind of compare it to a guy building a house. He has a plan and a crew of 11. He orders his supplies. Turns out 4 of the 11 guys are real slugs. Then his supplier is out of several supplies and tools he needs.

things move a lot slower than promised. He replaces 2 of the 4 slugs and some of the supplies trickle in. Things move a little better but he is obviously behind schedule.

So, do you fire him and hire a new contractor 1/3 of the way thru the project?

I can’t think of one single poster that has claimed VJ had all the tools and supplies he needs, yet many have called for his head which I don’t quite understand.

some changes have already taken place and there may be more. We need to be a little patient and build on top of where we are now.

 

[GuernseyCard]

His return has been confirmed by the HC.

 

[GatorAZ]

#32 in opposing passer rating by nearly 6 points over #31.

 

[GatorAZ]

#32 in opposing passer rating by nearly 6 points over #31.