Semi-OT: Percy Harvin to Seahawks

[GatorAZ]

Unbelievable! We just keep getting further behind our competition. Great players make great plays. Who are our great players? Sure L.F. you say. A great WR who never sees the ball thrown to him. I am bummed out right now. If you want a championship team, you have to go out and pay for those kind of players, and keep getting them until you accomplish your goal. We seem to be playing checkers and everyone else is playing chess.

Quit whining, that was a dumb trade for Seattle.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Quit whining, that was a dumb trade for Seattle.

Dumb trade? I guess we will see. I remember a lot of other dumb trades I heard people say on here too, like RGIII, Eli Manning, and Clem Swetechekes.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

They also are getting a mid round pick next year, could be as high as a second..

Doesn't matter. It's still a steal for Seattle.

In a draft devoid of playmakers or impact players, the Seahawks give up the 25th pick along with the approx. 200th+ pick, and at the realistic best, a pick 50 or lower next year for a top 10 player who is still young, entering his prime, and probably only going to get better.

In other words they gave up the 25th pick in a bad draft for Harvin. Because the other two picks likely will have minimal impacts, or not even make it in the NFL.

 

[Goldfield]

I wouldn't call it dumb. They just improved. Now giving high picks AND a huge contract is risky. But if you want to win sometimes you need to take risks.

 

[Phrazbit]

Half of Harvin's value is in the return game and they already have an excellent return man. Yes, their weakest position offensively is at receiver but Harvin is hardly elite as a wide out. A 1st (25th overall), a big contract and another pick next year... I'd think they could us those assets give themselves better options without the huge risk Harvin carries.

 

[GatorAZ]

Dumb trade? I guess we will see. I remember a lot of other dumb trades I heard people say on here too, like RGIII, Eli Manning, and Clem Swetechekes.

Injury-prone diva who will get overpaid. I would rather have Austin/Patterson for 1/10 the price.

 

[Chopper0080]

Quit whining, that was a dumb trade for Seattle.

Until we see the contract, I don't understand how you can make that statement. I could understand it if Seattle gave him 15mil per year and a bunch of guaranteed money, but that hasn't happened yet.

Risky move, but not dumb IMO.

 

[CardsFan88]

Harvin is a stud when on field, but it injury prone, gets migraines, thus even if he's not injured he may not be available to play or able to be very good during those migraines, and wants a ton of money. Oh a lot of his injuries are lingering stuff that he plays through. But when he has them he isn't quite the same player. In other words, he missed 3 games, mostly because the guy is gutsy, but in those games injured, he wasn't generally a huge factor like he is when he's healthy.

On the other side it takes up a good chunk of their cap, hopefully strapping them a bit in other areas, and removes a draft pick, hopefully multiple ones, including at least one high one.

They did add a helluva weapon though.

 

[GatorAZ]

You don't trade 1st round picks, teams like the Raiders do. Bruschi made a great point. Sign the more reliable receiver in Wallace and don't give up picks. If that happened they'd probably be the favorite.

I just don't like it for the Hawks but I've never been a Harvin fan.

 

[Chopper0080]

Doesn't matter. It's still a steal for Seattle.

In a draft devoid of playmakers or impact players, the Seahawks give up the 25th pick along with the approx. 200th+ pick, and at the realistic best, a pick 50 or lower next year for a top 10 player who is still young, entering his prime, and probably only going to get better.

In other words they gave up the 25th pick in a bad draft for Harvin. Because the other two picks likely will have minimal impacts, or not even make it in the NFL.

I wouldn't say it was a steal, the Seahawks paid market value for a player who intended to hold out and they have to give a big paycheck to. It is risky, Harvin could continue to have injury issues ala Sidney Rice or he could stay healthy and continue to be a premeir playmaker. The took a gamble that could pay off huge, but there is still a chance it fails. Keep in mind they traded for and will give a big contract to a guy who has never started more than 14 games in a season and has never had a 1000 yard receiving year.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Half of Harvin's value is in the return game and they already have an excellent return man. Yes, their weakest position offensively is at receiver but Harvin is hardly elite as a wide out. A 1st (25th overall), a big contract and another pick next year... I'd think they could us those assets give themselves better options without the huge risk Harvin carries.

Who are the options? They are not going to find a player anywhere near the level of Harvin with those picks unless they get extremely lucky.

The next post mentions Austin and Patterson. Unless either of those 2 come in and set NFL rookie records, which I doubt happens, they will have nowhere near the impact of Harvin. AJ Jenkins went close to where Minny will be picking, did he have a catch this year? Or maybe they'll have the impact of the 26th pick in 2011, Jon Baldwin and his 41 career catches.

 

[kerouac9]

Half of Harvin's value is in the return game and they already have an excellent return man. Yes, their weakest position offensively is at receiver but Harvin is hardly elite as a wide out. A 1st (25th overall), a big contract and another pick next year... I'd think they could us those assets give themselves better options without the huge risk Harvin carries.

They have a good kick returner, no doubt, but the Seahawks' punt return unit was among the worst in the NFL: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

Harvin also hasn't regularly returned kickoffs in 2 years. Just 16 in the past two seasons. It's a bit of a stretch to say that "half" of Harvins value is in the Kick return game.

 

[Phrazbit]

Who are the options? They are not going to find a player anywhere near the level of Harvin with those picks unless they get extremely lucky.

The next post mentions Austin and Patterson. Unless either of those 2 come in and set NFL rookie records, which I doubt happens, they will have nowhere near the impact of Harvin. AJ Jenkins went close to where Minny will be picking, did he have a catch this year? Or maybe they'll have the impact of the 26th pick in 2011, Jon Baldwin and his 41 career catches.

If Mike Wallace signs for close to what Harvin does then I think this was clearly a reach on Seattle's part. Purely as a receiver I think there are a lot of options as good or better than Harvin. If they were in desperate need of a special teams ace (which Harvin truly is) then it would be a different story, but they dont need one.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I wouldn't say it was a steal, the Seahawks paid market value for a player who intended to hold out and they have to give a big paycheck to. It is risky, Harvin could continue to have injury issues ala Sidney Rice or he could stay healthy and continue to be a premeir playmaker. The took a gamble that could pay off huge, but there is still a chance it fails. Keep in mind they traded for and will give a big contract to a guy who has never started more than 14 games in a season and has never had a 1000 yard receiving year.

Harvin played all 16 games in 2011-12 and had 967 yards receiving. It's not 1000 but close enough. Plus, you can count on a couple hundred yards rushing.

 

[Shane]

Hes over hyped. Hes good but he is far from the "biggest playmaker n the NFL" as Cbus is trying to pass off.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If Mike Wallace signs for close to what Harvin does then I think this was clearly a reach on Seattle's part. Purely as a receiver I think there are a lot of options as good or better than Harvin. If they were in desperate need of a special teams ace (which Harvin truly is) then it would be a different story, but they dont need one.

I guess it's a matter of choice, but I'd take Harvin over Wallace every day. I think he brings alot more to the table.

 

[Phrazbit]

I am not saying its an idiot move, unless he gets hurt it clearly makes them better. But that is a ton to give up for an upgrade at punt returner and an 11 ypc "speed receiver' who struggles to stay on the field. I think the risk reward is really imbalanced.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I am not saying its an idiot move, unless he gets hurt it clearly makes them better. But that is a ton to give up for an upgrade at punt returner and an 11 ypc "speed receiver' who struggles to stay on the field. I think the risk reward is really imbalanced.

The contract could be an issue but the draft compensation probably won't be. Like I mentioned, you're likely looking at drafting a WR like Jenkins or Baldwin versus Harvin.

He has speed but I think he's more a big play WR and catches alot of shorts passes, thus the low YPC, than he is a straight over the top speed WR.

 

[Ronin]

It isn't as big a deal when you consider that the Seahawks have Wilson under contract for three more years for less than $1M a season--substantially less.

By the time Wilson's due for a contract upgrade (and they can't upgrade his contract for at least two more years), Syd Rice will be off the books.

I think it's a big deal if they are trying to win this year. The Seahawks are already over paying for a below average receiver, now your going throw bit time money at another receiver...
That money could've been used on upgrading the linebacking core or the pass rush....which was exposed during the Seahawks playoff run. Now they will mess out on John Abraham, Richard Seymour, etc,,,,,,which by all means is fine by me.

 

[Southpaw]

That gives Minnesota the #23 & # 25 pick in the draft. 2 good players or good trade value to a team that wants to trade down. Hmmm. Cards could do that trade.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

My first thought when I saw the trade go through was "Adrian Wilson has a new toy to crush"...then I remembered we cut him. Then I was sad...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Hes over hyped. Hes good but he is far from the "biggest playmaker n the NFL" as Cbus is trying to pass off.

Who is a bigger playmaker? If Harvin is not the biggest, he's in the top 5. At the age of 24 and 3 years into his career he's already in the top 40 for career all purpose yards in the entire NFL.

 

[kerouac9]

I think it's a big deal if they are trying to win this year. The Seahawks are already over paying for a below average receiver, now your going throw bit time money at another receiver...
That money could've been used on upgrading the linebacking core or the pass rush....which was exposed during the Seahawks playoff run. Now they will mess out on John Abraham, Richard Seymour, etc,,,,,,which by all means is fine by me.

There have to be players available to spend that money on. Seattle already had one of the best defenses in the NFL, and I don't believe they are going to lose anyone except maybe Alan Branch.

If you think that John Abraham and Richard Seymour are going to be difference makers, you should probably walk out of 2008 and into 2013.

 

[kerouac9]

Who is a bigger playmaker? If Harvin is not the biggest, he's in the top 5. At the age of 24 and 3 years into his career he's already in the top 40 for career all purpose yards in the entire NFL.

What's the metric or measure of "biggest playmaker"? I'm asking honestly.

If it's someone where I'm probably not going to change the channel if their side of the ball is on the field? I'd definitely put Calvin Johnson and RG3 ahead of Percy Harvin. I'd probably toss Julio Jones in there--that guy's pretty dynamic.

Defensively, I love watching J.J. Watt work.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Harvin hasn't returned an NFL punt

His kickoffs are way down the last two years vs his first two years - but he is a dynamic threat there

I think this move means the end of leon washington, although I'd rather not have harvin exposed too much to KRs

What he will hopefully provide is someone that needs to be accounted for. He plays a lot out of the backfield, a lot in quick hit scenarios, etc. Seattle has been more of a slow developing passing team, which is why I'm a little dubious about fit .... but the coaches know him so I would hope they have a plan.

I think it could make them a tough matchup in the redzone and in any short yardage situation - with lynch and harvin in the backfield with wilson it gives them a lot of flexibility to read and adjust - miller & rice are still good outlets and tate really made some strides last year ..... they now can spread you out and try to dictate a matchup

As for the cap - it doesn't hamstring seattle at all from making a move this year ... they came into the offseason at $18M under the cap and have a lot of performers on rookie deals ..... they'll have some decisions to make starting next year and need to spend wisely today to keep flexibility tommorrow

Ben Obomanu and his $3.25M number are gone - Flynn will not be a seahawk after this season .... throw in leon and you can pretty much allocate what you'd need to commit to harvin, pretty much resetting back to zero going into the very important next summer

Not to mention that this year it wouldn't make sense to cut Rice ... however, if needed next year they could drop him and save $7.3M towards the cap ... there is also the ability to restructure/extend miller if needed

Flexibility is there, still money to play with this year and still options for next year - although the conversations starts to get a little more difficult when looking at guys who will be due to get paid that they drafted vs the existing commitments of veterans on the team