Shaq for MVP!

[cobbler]

Why the hell is this still a topic of discussion? Who cares about Kobe and Shaq?

Because some people sensitive over a comment about Shaq'a history of whining thought for some reason bringing the Kobe and Shaq fued was relevant. I have no clue why.

 

[Covert Rain]

You are really stretching now. Fired, relieved from his coaching positon, not retatined as coach, WHATEVER you want to call it. PJ was NOT happy about it and it took him totally by surprise. No matter what other position he was later offered, he was most definetly let go as the coach ie. FIRED. There is no shortage of articles or sportcasts that referred to PJ's removal as his being fired either. What an absurd post.

Stepping down by his own decision.....yeah...whatever you want to call it. He was not fired and you know it. He quit. He walked away. It was his decision.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmafp/is_200406/ai_n6842093

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123143,00.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jun/22/sports/sp-62521

I found about 6 or 7 others. Please.

Not one single article says Phil Jackson Fired.

And PJ's comments in the book were related to Kobe's being uncoachable and his asking the management to trade him. Had nothing to do with retaining Shaq or Shaq's extension demands which were absurd.

Obviously you didn't read the book. The Last season was about the tensions that surrounded the 2003–04 Lakers team and his experience. Funny how it failed to mention he was fired. It's funny for a person who destroyed the team in Shaq....he didn't mention it. Funny how the focal point of his remarks were about Kobe. Really Cobbler...now your getting absurd.

And yes, many companies fire personel from their positions and offer them lesser roles.

LMAO. Oh boy. Typically when you get laid off your offered another position, not when your fired. There was zero indication that he was laid off and zero indication he was fired. Nowhere can I find a quote from Phil Jackson in his book or article that says "I was surprised I was fired" or anything to that effect.

Look does Shaq say stupid things? Yes. But so did Kobe if you read alot of the history of things Kobe has said. Nobody is absolving Shaq or the Lakers managment or Phil for that matter in what happened. However, to pretend Kobe wasn't a major factor in the breakup is pure fantasy.

Why the hell is this still a topic of discussion? Who cares about Kobe and Shaq?

Because some like to sugar coat history to justify their hate of other players.

 

[cobbler]

There is no sense in going all over this again and again and again. The bottom line is as you said...they all had a part. The facts are that Jim Buss went to Jerry and wanted PJ out of the coaching position. PJ and Jerry met and they agreed that PJ would not return as coach. He DID NOT walk away.There were many articles that used the word fired. Many broadcasts as well. Do you honeslty think they wouldn't have worded it as his stepping down to his stature, reputation, and the fact he was dating the daughter? Come on. I clearly remember the broadcast where PJ commented that exit talks took him by surprise.

Soooo, to please you... well just say.... PJ was not retained as the coach. Feel better?

The facts are, the Lakers wanted to go a different direction that didn't involve the triange. Let's not forget, that Shaq DEMANDED a trade long before the Kobe signing and the PJ "non retention" . Jerry made a business decision based on the money, ages of Shaq, and years involved. There was no guarantee Kobe was still not going to leave and in fact he came very close to doing just that even after the Shaq trade. Jim Buss wanted to get back to a more up tempo game since they had already made the Shaq decision, and in doing so, wanted a different coach.

Again, I make a comment about Shaq being whiney when he doesnt get his way. Somthing he has PROVEN with 3 teams. And now its all about Shaq/Kobe/PJ etc. Enough already...

All in all... the Lakers made the right decision!


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How did you deal with that when Phil Jackson left the team? I know it is tough because you have your boyfriend on one side and your dad and organization on the other.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JB: Yeah, you know sometimes when I'm talking with my dad, I said 'when Phil got fired', he says 'he didn't get fired, his contract wasn't renewed.' I go, 'okay, whatever.' That was probably that toughest time of my life. It
really was because I saw that Phil wasn't really ready to go and I think he felt he had more to do with this organization. But now when you look back at it, it really worked out for the best. Phil needed some time off. I
didn't know what was going to happen to our relationship. As it turns out our relationship became stronger because we did have that distance between us and now he's back (laughing).[/FONT]

 

[Covert Rain]

There is no sense in going all over this again and again and again. The bottom line is as you said...they all had a part. The facts are that Jim Buss went to Jerry and wanted PJ out of the coaching position. PJ and Jerry met and they agreed that PJ would not return as coach. He DID NOT walk away.There were many articles that used the word fired. Many broadcasts as well. Do you honeslty think they wouldn't have worded it as his stepping down to his stature, reputation, and the fact he was dating the daughter? Come on. I clearly remember the broadcast where PJ commented that exit talks took him by surprise.

Soooo, to please you... well just say.... PJ was not retained as the coach. Feel better?

The facts are, the Lakers wanted to go a different direction that didn't involve the triange. Let's not forget, that Shaq DEMANDED a trade long before the Kobe signing and the PJ "non retention" . Jerry made a business decision based on the money, ages of Shaq, and years involved. There was no guarantee Kobe was still not going to leave and in fact he came very close to doing just that even after the Shaq trade. Jim Buss wanted to get back to a more up tempo game since they had already made the Shaq decision, and in doing so, wanted a different coach.

Again, I make a comment about Shaq being whiney when he doesnt get his way. Somthing he has PROVEN with 3 teams. And now its all about Shaq/Kobe/PJ etc. Enough already...

All in all... the Lakers made the right decision!


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How did you deal with that when Phil Jackson left the team? I know it is tough because you have your boyfriend on one side and your dad and organization on the other.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JB: Yeah, you know sometimes when I'm talking with my dad, I said 'when Phil got fired', he says 'he didn't get fired, his contract wasn't renewed.' I go, 'okay, whatever.' That was probably that toughest time of my life. It[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]really was because I saw that Phil wasn't really ready to go and I think he felt he had more to do with this organization. But now when you look back at it, it really worked out for the best. Phil needed some time off. I[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]didn't know what was going to happen to our relationship. As it turns out our relationship became stronger because we did have that distance between us and now he's back (laughing).[/FONT]

Obviously you did not read some of the articles above, have no sense of the actual time table or facts whatsoever. You might just be the most uninformed Lakers fan I have met. Then again, I think your more dillusional (especially when it comes to Shaq) then uninformed. It's a tight race.

There are so many things wrong with so many statements you have made in this thread I could throw a dart and hit one. I think your officially taken the crown of the silliest troll on this board.

 

[cobbler]

Obviously you did not read some of the articles above, have no sense of the actual time table or facts whatsoever. You might just be the most uninformed Lakers fan I have met. Then again, I think your more dillusional (especially when it comes to Shaq) then uninformed. It's a tight race.

There are so many things wrong with so many statements you have made in this thread I could throw a dart and hit one. I think your officially taken the crown of the silliest troll on this board.

I read them. Even the one about his leaving the Bulls. hahaha Maybe you should have read that one dufus as it has nothing to do with our discussion. I know what happened. You may want to believe that he walked away... but if you read the meat of the reply by Jeanie, the President of the Lakers, gf of PJ, and daughter of Jerry, she said how it was. They agreed for PJ to step down rather than call it a firing or non renewal (whatever you wish to call it in your pea brain). Your highlighted part was in reference....to... well it worked out cause PJ needed time off. Not that he walked cause he needed time. How ignorant can you be? The part you should have highlighted was:

Yeah, you know sometimes when I'm talking with my dad, I said 'when Phil got fired', he says 'he didn't get fired, his contract wasn't renewed.' I go, 'okay, whatever.' That was probably that toughest time of my life. It
really was because I saw that Phil wasn't really ready to go and I think he felt he had more to do with this organization

... but leave it to you to pick out the hindsight reference that it worked out for the best cause he needed time off for why he stepped down. hahahahaha

And as a season ticket holder for 25 years who has actually talked to Jerry on quite a few occassions due to his sponsoring part of my basketball career, regardless of your doubts and ignorance, I know what I've been told. Laugh all you wan't, pull out the ole troll comments all you want, but you have no clue what your talking about. But then again, of course YOU and some media hacks know far more what was going on than the actual people involved. hahahaha

I've had enough fun with you for one night... take care!

 

[jagu]

Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - Center

Howard 1 with 25.91
Shaq 2 with 23.51

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=c&seasonType=2&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtrue%26pos%3dc%26seasonType%3d2

 

[Ryanwb]

Shaq is shooting 72% from the free throw line since they tweeked his shooting. He's an incredible 17/20 in the last 3 games

 

[jagu]

If only he discovered this earlier in his career....

 

[Covert Rain]

I read them. Even the one about his leaving the Bulls. hahaha Maybe you should have read that one dufus as it has nothing to do with our discussion. I know what happened. You may want to believe that he walked away... but if you read the meat of the reply by Jeanie, the President of the Lakers, gf of PJ, and daughter of Jerry, she said how it was. They agreed for PJ to step down rather than call it a firing or non renewal (whatever you wish to call it in your pea brain). Your highlighted part was in reference....to... well it worked out cause PJ needed time off. Not that he walked cause he needed time. How ignorant can you be? The part you should have highlighted was:

Yeah, you know sometimes when I'm talking with my dad, I said 'when Phil got fired', he says 'he didn't get fired, his contract wasn't renewed.' I go, 'okay, whatever.' That was probably that toughest time of my life. It
really was because I saw that Phil wasn't really ready to go and I think he felt he had more to do with this organization

... but leave it to you to pick out the hindsight reference that it worked out for the best cause he needed time off for why he stepped down. hahahahaha

And as a season ticket holder for 25 years who has actually talked to Jerry on quite a few occassions due to his sponsoring part of my basketball career, regardless of your doubts and ignorance, I know what I've been told. Laugh all you wan't, pull out the ole troll comments all you want, but you have no clue what your talking about. But then again, of course YOU and some media hacks know far more what was going on than the actual people involved. hahahaha

I've had enough fun with you for one night... take care!

We know we know. Your "spoke" with Dr. Bus. Phil didn't mean anything he said about Kobe, all the articles about Phil walking away were wrong and Kobe had nothing to do with the Lakers break up. Oh and the sky is yellow and the world is flat. Maybe you missed all that light reading between the book and articles where there was a contract extension offer on the table that Phil didn't wan't to sign so they broke off talks until the end of the season. By the end of the season with Phils problems with Kobe and not feeling like the organization was backing him, the obvious declining of his part on signing the extension......the word "duh" comes to mind. What could the organization do? However, it sounds like Phil knew for some time he didn't want to come back. They agreed to part ways be end of season. That is not being fired. LMAO.

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There is a reason he requested Kobe be traded not once but twice. He never made such a request about Shaq did he? He never made all those comments about Shaq did he? Yep, Shaq is a bigger malcontent. lol.

I would like to say you couldn't possibly be more clueless but we all know this isn't the first time.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

 

[Andrew]

Can we agree to disagree? This is OLD.

 

[Shogun]

Black Mamba for MVP!

*sneaks away*

 

[CaptainInsano]

It's honestly more like:

 

[cobbler]

Steel,

We can go over and over and over this until the moon turns blue. It's not going to change anything. I know what I know. You believe what you want to believe. So be it. You have a nice way of shifting the topic eveytime I show your innacuracies. The thread was about if Shaq would be considered for MVP. You have now taken this to the Shaq vs Kobe feud, the Kobe vs PJ issues, the reasons why PJ was not retained as coach etc. Its what you do in any thread where we have disagreed. You get proven wrong on a point and you throw out the insults, choose a single word instead of the whole comments, and change the focus of the topic at hand. I honestly must repremand myself for letting you drag me into such an old and meaningless rehashing of issues. The bottom line and the thread topic is not about all the Kobe, PJ, Jerry Buss, Laker history... it was about if Shaq should could or would be considered for MVP, and you can agure util the sky actually does turn yellow... but that is NOT going to happen no matter how much you deflect the conversation. Now go along your way and we will see you in the playoffs, if you make it.

I know you will toss yet another comment on my being clueless or something of that nature as you need to get the last word in so I'll let you know I will not respond to this silliness anymore and give you that pleasure. Have a great day.

 

[Covert Rain]

Steel,

We can go over and over and over this until the moon turns blue. It's not going to change anything. I know what I know. You believe what you want to believe. So be it. You have a nice way of shifting the topic eveytime I show your innacuracies. The thread was about if Shaq would be considered for MVP. You have now taken this to the Shaq vs Kobe feud, the Kobe vs PJ issues, the reasons why PJ was not retained as coach etc. Its what you do in any thread where we have disagreed. You get proven wrong on a point and you throw out the insults, choose a single word instead of the whole comments, and change the focus of the topic at hand. I honestly must repremand myself for letting you drag me into such an old and meaningless rehashing of issues. The bottom line and the thread topic is not about all the Kobe, PJ, Jerry Buss, Laker history... it was about if Shaq should could or would be considered for MVP, and you can agure util the sky actually does turn yellow... but that is NOT going to happen no matter how much you deflect the conversation. Now go along your way and we will see you in the playoffs, if you make it.

I know you will toss yet another comment on my being clueless or something of that nature as you need to get the last word in so I'll let you know I will not respond to this silliness anymore and give you that pleasure. Have a great day.

Dude you are hilarious. You have ignored facts thrown in your face just like you always do and your comeback is "I talked to Dr. Buss". Your the master of deflection and always ignore things that don't support your view.

You are hilarious.

PS. I apologize to my board mates for letting the ill informed troll get to me and ranting on. I am done.

 

[Bufalay]

What the hell? I can't imagine what you are still arguing about. Lets see how long you can keep it going.

 

[cubsfan162512]

Shaq has definitely been the Suns MVP but i think Lebron has got the league MVP down if he continues what he's doing

 

[BC867]

Shaq has definitely been the Suns MVP but i think Lebron has got the league MVP down if he continues what he's doing

As great as LBJ is, I believe the Cavs dependence on him to do it all will hurt them during the post-season's potential seven-game series.

As far as the league's MVP vs. the Suns MVP, I'm satisfied with Shaq as our MVP, surrounded by a better group of supporting players.

 

[arwillan]

As great as LBJ is, I believe the Cavs dependence on him to do it all will hurt them during the post-season's potential seven-game series.

As far as the league's MVP vs. the Suns MVP, I'm satisfied with Shaq as our MVP, surrounded by a better group of supporting players.

The cavaliers are my favorite team, and i follow them quite closely. let me just say that this year more than any other year, the cavaliers can depend less on lebron. Mo williams can create for himself and others. Delonte west can do a little bit of creating for himself. the team has finally gone through a training camp together (something that was not the case last year), and they have spectacular chemistry. Lebron's points from last year to this one are down nearly 3 a game and his field goal percentage is up. Relying on him to spark to the offense and be the primary weapon on both ends of the floor is not a negative thing at all. he is, in the opinion of many, the best player in the league. if you let the results of your playoff run rely more on the best player in the league more than any other player on the team, your chances of success are as high as you can make them. Besides, relying on lebron to do everything let the cavaliers to a sweep in the finals and nearly a knock off of the champion celtics last year.

 

[ozzfloyd]

Yeah, you know sometimes when I'm talking with my dad, I said 'when Phil got fired', he says 'he didn't get fired, his contract wasn't renewed.' I go, 'okay, whatever.' That was probably that toughest time of my life. It
really was because I saw that Phil wasn't really ready to go and I think he felt he had more to do with this organization

The toughest time of your life was when the coach of your favorite sports team wasn't brought back? Damn dude that is sad.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

The Cavs are definitely a very improved team this year.

 

[cobbler]

The toughest time of your life was when the coach of your favorite sports team wasn't brought back? Damn dude that is sad.

Yeah... that would be pretty sad I admit. It was a quote from Jeanie Buss about the reality of PJ's contract not being renewed. Pheeew, I almost said the word fired. In case you don't know, she is the Laker president, daugher of the owner, and girlfriend of Phil Jackson.

 

[Brianellsworth]

Cobbler....Please go back to your www.lakerslover.com board. Your arguements are getting old. Do you really have nothing better to do with your life?