Shaq To Cavaliers Talk Is Back

[cly2tw]

I watched every minute of every game and yes Shaq helps, but he isnt going to keep Dwight Howard off the offensive boards. He averaged 4 offensive boards per game in the Boston series and Perkins did a good of a job as anyone all year at guarding Dwight 1 on 1.

The problem in the Cleveland series was that they had no way to match up against Rashard or Hedo on the perimeter. Rashard hit 15 threes in the series.

The Cavs arent going to run the ball through Shaq like the Suns did. Yes, he helps but he also clogs the lane for LeBron. If the Cavs want a title they need to bring in a guy who can score and guard on the perimeter at PF.

Cavs problem on offense was they had no reliable 2nd option. On defense, it's even bigger, they could not contain Howard. Shaq is best 2nd option as it comes. He'd stop Dwight from off. reb if he were not to be out of position covering for Nash. However, for this task, Gasol/Odom, or even Gortat may be good substitute for Shaq.

 

[shazaam6]

can the suns include barbosa WHY?? and the cavs include delonte?

Barbosa is a good player for a good price and is improving.
Are you a Cavs fan?

No Amare, no Barbosa. If we trade our offensive players we will just suck at scoring instead of defense. Why not keep the players that are good and acquire better defenders.

Lakers trade Kwame for Gasol. Pick up Fisher and didn't lose Lamar or Kobe. They went from avg. to Western Conf. Champion to NBA title in 2 years. hmmmmm They didn't panic when Kobe asked to be traded.

You have to wonder "What would Sarver/Kerr have done if they were in charge of the Lakers at that time? "Kobe asked to be traded, so we don't want to pay someone who says they are interested in other teams. Bye Kobe."

 

[Covert Rain]

Im not saying Shaq is garbage, but the Cavs dont need to trade for Shaq to make their team any better. The Cavs desperately need a PF who can score and guard out to the perimeter, not a C who is going to clog the lane for LeBron and doesnt help them match up with KG or Rashard.

That's Garbage. Shaq doesn't clog the lane unless your offensive scheme puts him in the lane. Dwayne Wade had no problems getting into the lane when they played together and neither would LJ. It's how you use Shaq that matters.[/quote]

 

[mojorizen7]

Those that feel Shaq's arrival screwed up the SUNS championship hopes haven't been paying attention to the rest of the NBA playoffs after the SUNS early exits over the last several years.
Is Shawn Marion even a relevent NBA player anymore?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I am okay with getting expiring contracts back for Shaq at this point. A young prospect like Deng would be nice but there is no need to pay all that money if we are not going to contend.

And it doesn't mean that the money is just going to go into Sarvers pocket. The hope is it would be redistributed either this offseason or next for a younger player who will contribute for the next 4-5 years.

I am looking at Gortat or Ariza for one if the money gets spent this offseason.

Remember the lesson of the Marbury trade. Just because you don't get any picks or prospects back its the cap space that is desirable.

As much as many of you will refute this, players want to come to Phoenix. It would reason that if we have money, they will come. Especially since we will likely be able to offer a potential FA a chance to be "the guy"

 

[TJ]

I'm saying this in case Sarver and Kerr grow a brain during the offseason.

If the Shaq trade is done, this had better be the first block of TNT to blow this thing up and start from scratch. That means <gulp> dealing Nash for some prospects and/or picks for 2010 and letting Grant Hill walk.

I know I'm in the minority here, but we should try to keep Stoudemire. He is young, offensively productive, and fun to watch. Plus, I think he has a good rapport with Gentry. I would offer him an extension and see how he responds. Obviously, his vision needs to be 100% otherwise, he is worthless, but I would hate to see one of the best finishers in the game pack his bags.

I would also like to see this team build around guys like Richardson, Dragic, and Dudley in the starting line up. Barbosa is best as the 6th man and arguably the best in the league in that capacity. Amundson is a stud off the bench. And finally, I have not given up on Alando Tucker just yet. I really want to see how he does with a year of honest playing time under a coach who knows how to utilize his talents.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'm saying this in case Sarver and Kerr grow a brain during the offseason.

If the Shaq trade is done, this had better be the first block of TNT to blow this thing up and start from scratch. That means <gulp> dealing Nash for some prospects and/or picks for 2010 and letting Grant Hill walk.

I know I'm in the minority here, but we should try to keep Stoudemire. He is young, offensively productive, and fun to watch. Plus, I think he has a good rapport with Gentry. I would offer him an extension and see how he responds. Obviously, his vision needs to be 100% otherwise, he is worthless, but I would hate to see one of the best finishers in the game pack his bags.

I would also like to see this team build around guys like Richardson, Dragic, and Dudley in the starting line up. Barbosa is best as the 6th man and arguably the best in the league in that capacity. Amundson is a stud off the bench. And finally, I have not given up on Alando Tucker just yet. I really want to see how he does with a year of honest playing time under a coach who knows how to utilize his talents.

I agree 100%
You lost me with the talk of including JRich and Tucker in terms of the future however.
I'm all for watching Amare & Barbosa try to score 80 ppg between the two of them next season while we develop Dragic,Dudley,Lou etc...

 

[greensborohill]

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1729

 

[Mr. Boldin]

That's Garbage. Shaq doesn't clog the lane unless your offensive scheme puts him in the lane. Dwayne Wade had no problems getting into the lane when they played together and neither would LJ. It's how you use Shaq that matters.

You do realize that the Cavs spread the floor as much as any team in the league. Where do you think Shaq is going to play? He cant hit a jumper and cant spread the floor. Shaq will be on the block or near the high post, so im not sure where you think he is going to go. Teams trying to stop LeBron shade towards the paint, what do you think they are going to do with Shaq in the middle as well?

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Cavs problem on offense was they had no reliable 2nd option. On defense, it's even bigger, they could not contain Howard. Shaq is best 2nd option as it comes. He'd stop Dwight from off. reb if he were not to be out of position covering for Nash. However, for this task, Gasol/Odom, or even Gortat may be good substitute for Shaq.

The Cavs were fine all year long until they ran into the magic. They had no problems on defense and really not that many on offense except for a reliable 2nd option like you said.

Shaq isnt going to be able to keep Dwight off the offensive boards. He will give him more problems than nearly anyone else, but nobody is keeping him off the boards.

The Cavs only problem the entire year was trying to match up with the Magic, who were the exact clone of the Cavs but with more length and height and Dwight instead of LeBron.

Shaq helps a little because they wont have to double Dwight as much, but the problem was out on the perimeter. Sure Shaq helps defend Dwight 1 on 1, but what is Shaq going to do when he has to step out and face Dwight like Z did? Howard has no offense outside the paint and he would blow right past Z. Im not saying he would do it to Shaq as easily, but Shaq didnt exactly have an easy time staying in front of Dwight this year.

 

[Covert Rain]

You do realize that the Cavs spread the floor as much as any team in the league. Where do you think Shaq is going to play? He cant hit a jumper and cant spread the floor. Shaq will be on the block or near the high post, so im not sure where you think he is going to go. Teams trying to stop LeBron shade towards the paint, what do you think they are going to do with Shaq in the middle as well?

The Cavs have one of the worst offensive teams I have seen in the playoffs in terms of variety. It consists of give it to Lebron and let him go. It can't get much worse then that. You need a good post up player to get you easy shots to take pressure off your other guys. You can run a pick and rolls with Shaq and LeBron. You can have Shaq pick off shooters off the ball when not posting up. He doesn't have to stay in one place or park it anywhere.

It worked for Miami. Miami didn't work some mystical magic with Shaq that nobody else could repeat. Again, Miami had no problems with Shaq clogging the lane. D-Wade led the league amung guards with points in the paint why Shaq was there. If you can explain to me how D-Wade can do it but Lebron can't I would like to hear it.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

The Cavs have one of the worst offensive teams I have seen in the playoffs in terms of variety. It consists of give it to Lebron and let him go. It can't get much worse then that. You need a good post up player to get you easy shots to take pressure off your other guys. You can run a pick and rolls with Shaq and LeBron. You can have Shaq pick off shooters off the ball when not posting up. He doesn't have to stay in one place or park it anywhere.

It worked for Miami. Miami didn't work some mystical magic with Shaq that nobody else could repeat. Again, Miami had no problems with Shaq clogging the lane. D-Wade led the league amung guards with points in the paint why Shaq was there. If you can explain to me how D-Wade can do it but Lebron can't I would like to hear it.

The problem wasnt the Cavs offense it was Mike Brown and LeBron. The Cavs offense in the regular season was 4th in efficiency, 4th in effective FG%, 4th in true shooting %, 6th in PPG, 5th in 3's made, and I can keep going... During the series against Orlando, the Magic were able to put tall athletic defenders all over the floor and disrupt the Cavs offense. Instead of trying to keep continunity in the offense, the Cavs offense began and ended with a LeBron iso and it failed horribly, just like it did agains the Spurs.

The problem with Shaq in the pick and roll is that nobody is going to guard Shaq on the perimeter, because he isnt going to pop and shoot the ball. Teams will sag off Shaq and that will keep LeBron out of the lane and force him to take jumpers. The Cavs run the pick and roll with Varejao (who isnt likely to be back) because he is athletic or Z because he can pop out and shoot. I dont know why anyone would have Shaq come out and set screens or pick and roll when he poses no threat out on the perimeter.

Wade lived at the foul line and actually 66% of his shots we jumpers that year. Look a star player like Wade or LeBron is going to find their way into the lane no matter what. The point I am making is that Shaq is going to crowd the lane even more than it already is against LeBron. Teams who try to stop LeBron have 4 guys with at least 1 foot in the pain when he attacks the basket. You dont think adding Shaq will draw even more attention to the lane?

 

[AsUdUdE]

I am okay with getting expiring contracts back for Shaq at this point. A young prospect like Deng would be nice but there is no need to pay all that money if we are not going to contend.

And it doesn't mean that the money is just going to go into Sarvers pocket. The hope is it would be redistributed either this offseason or next for a younger player who will contribute for the next 4-5 years.

I am looking at Gortat or Ariza for one if the money gets spent this offseason.

Remember the lesson of the Marbury trade. Just because you don't get any picks or prospects back its the cap space that is desirable.

As much as many of you will refute this, players want to come to Phoenix. It would reason that if we have money, they will come. Especially since we will likely be able to offer a potential FA a chance to be "the guy"

I would probably agree with your if we were trading away a contract that wasn't expiring as well!!!!

If we made the trade witht he Cavs for Wallace and Pavlavic it would be the same thing as the suns "cutting" Shaq in the offseason, but they wouldn't have to deal with the ENORMOUS backlash that would ensue..

Fans who actually KNOW whats happending here see right through it, making this trade is the same thing as cutting him... Would you be ok watching him walk?

I mean I know he is old, but dude was an All-Star last year and a 3rd team All-NBA player!! When is the last time a player made the All-Star team then was essentially CUT...

Not saying they will.. Istill have to give them the benifit of the Doubt... but IF they do indeed make this trade for Wallace/Pavalic I will be ill

ONLY SARVER AND THE SUNS F.O. WOULD MAKE THIS DEAL, and that is what makes me the most sick

 

[AsUdUdE]

I know it seems obvious, but with the Suns these days YOU CAN'T ASSUME ANYTHING....

All that said apparently the Suns are saying they are not just goign to give Shaq away, which is awesome..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4260855

 

[Andrew]

Its all rumors. Though, I like the attention Shaq is getting with his twitter, the Lakers, and now this rumor. I can turn on ESPN and within an hour hear him mentioned 3 times. It's like heaven for Shaq fans, when I die...I bet I will have a naked chick, my dog, a never ending supply of McDonalds and a constant loop of Shaquille O'Neal footage on an IMAX-like screen.

 

[JS22]

Its all rumors. Though, I like the attention Shaq is getting with his twitter, the Lakers, and now this rumor. I can turn on ESPN and within an hour hear him mentioned 3 times. It's like heaven for Shaq fans, when I die...I bet I will have a naked chick, my dog, a never ending supply of McDonalds and a constant loop of Shaquille O'Neal footage on an IMAX-like screen.

WTF?

 

[Covert Rain]

The problem wasnt the Cavs offense it was Mike Brown and LeBron. During the series against Orlando, the Magic were able to put tall athletic defenders all over the floor and disrupt the Cavs offense. Instead of trying to keep continunity in the offense, the Cavs offense began and ended with a LeBron iso and it failed horribly, just like it did agains the Spurs.

The reason it starts and begins with LeBron is because they have no post up game. Orlando stayed at home against the Cavs shooters (which most teams didn't do) and that left LeBron. No post up game to compliment LeBron. That's why the Cavs tried to trade for Shaq before the deadline. The Cavs know their front court is garbage.

The problem with Shaq in the pick and roll is that nobody is going to guard Shaq on the perimeter, because he isnt going to pop and shoot the ball. Teams will sag off Shaq and that will keep LeBron out of the lane and force him to take jumpers.

First off nobody has proven they can stop LeBron from driving to the hoop. Much like nobody could stop D-Wade on Miami doing it, or Kobe with the Lakers. Wade and Kobe are good outside shooters so it's not like they are going to shoot Shaq like numbers in the paint. They just need to be able to drive to the hoop when needed and get to the free throw line which they did in buckets.

Shaq at the center position was a leader in FG percentage. When you run a pick and roll with Shaq you don't roll Shaq to the top of the key or outside. You do it off the block. Shaq did a great job of picking and rolling to the basket...not away from it. That has been Shaq's game his entire career. Phil Jackson and Pat Riley played to Shaq's strengths. I didn't see either coach make it a habit of trying a pick and roll leaving Shaq on an island on the outside.

Look a star player like Wade or LeBron is going to find their way into the lane no matter what.

Which is my point exactly. Shaq isn't going to stop either one of those players from driving to the hoop. He didn't for Kobe, he didn't for Wade and he won't for LeBron.

You dont think adding Shaq will draw even more attention to the lane?

Ofcourse it will. However, Shaq shoots a very high percentage from the lane. Meaning that he will give LeBron some help by getting easy hoops. In addition, Shaq will draw people to the paint which will either leave shooters wide open or LeBron wide open. Something that they don't have today. Lebron has a bad game or the outside shooters are cold the Cavs are exposed.

Look at the teams in the finals. Both have good inside out games. Orlando has Howard in the paint. The Lakers had Gasol, Odom and Bynum. The Cavs front court was horrible compared to either of those teams. The Cavs need a front court.

 

[mojorizen7]

WTF?

Its all rumors. Though, I like the attention Shaq is getting with his twitter, the Lakers, and now this rumor. I can turn on ESPN and within an hour hear him mentioned 3 times. It's like heaven for Shaq fans, when I die...I bet I will have a naked chick, my dog, a never ending supply of McDonalds and a constant loop of Shaquille O'Neal footage on an IMAX-like screen.

Pure comedy

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Awesome.

 

[HooverDam]

Its all rumors. Though, I like the attention Shaq is getting with his twitter, the Lakers, and now this rumor. I can turn on ESPN and within an hour hear him mentioned 3 times. It's like heaven for Shaq fans, when I die...I bet I will have a naked chick, my dog, a never ending supply of McDonalds and a constant loop of Shaquille O'Neal footage on an IMAX-like screen.

You need to see a shrink you have an unhealthy obsession with another man

All that said apparently the Suns are saying they are not just goign to give Shaq away

Right because they have no history of doing that

 

[TJ]

I know it seems obvious, but with the Suns these days YOU CAN'T ASSUME ANYTHING....

All that said apparently the Suns are saying they are not just goign to give Shaq away, which is awesome..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4260855

I believe it.

I can see a scenario like in the movie "Major League II" when Roger Dorn activated himself after being GM of the team.

Steve Kerr will end up suiting up to save the team money.

 

[TJ]

Its all rumors. Though, I like the attention Shaq is getting with his twitter, the Lakers, and now this rumor. I can turn on ESPN and within an hour hear him mentioned 3 times. It's like heaven for Shaq fans, when I die...I bet I will have a naked chick, my dog, a never ending supply of McDonalds and a constant loop of Shaquille O'Neal footage on an IMAX-like screen.

Mods,

Is this the nail in the coffin for Andrew?

This is a pretty sick statement and clearly done for shock value.

 

[Chaplin]

Mods,

Is this the nail in the coffin for Andrew?

This is a pretty sick statement and clearly done for shock value.

Are you serious? Lighten up, sheesh.

 

[TJ]

Are you serious? Lighten up, sheesh.

I've seen you make statements like that to almost everyone on this board and I've seen you insult Andrew at the same time. You're kind of contradicting yourself here.

But to answer your question; yes I'm serious and guarantee most people on this MB feel the same way.

 

[cly2tw]

You do realize that the Cavs spread the floor as much as any team in the league. Where do you think Shaq is going to play? He cant hit a jumper and cant spread the floor. Shaq will be on the block or near the high post, so im not sure where you think he is going to go. Teams trying to stop LeBron shade towards the paint, what do you think they are going to do with Shaq in the middle as well?

LBJ as the only option to even start any play was Cavs' demise. Shaq would make Mo and Delonte sing as well as LBJ does. As someone mentioned, it's about how you use Shaq. Amare increased his scoring avg. after the Shaq trade under DA.

 

[Bufalay]

Mods,

Is this the nail in the coffin for Andrew?

This is a pretty sick statement and clearly done for shock value.

It's just a failed attempt to be funny. It isn't really offensive.