Sharpening the Edges

[BritCard]

Like besides Patrick Peterson, Rashad Johnson with 5 INTs, and Tyrann Matthieu?

Zero cred when you make these statements and hope we don’t check yo werk.

Obviously I was talking about the defensive line. Did the list of exclusively defensive line players not give it away?

This was because he said "front 7" and what he really meant was front 5.

 

[BritCard]

It's going to be really interesting how this Edge group plays out. There's such a variety of body types and playing styles it's really going to come down to a lot of scheme fit/ personal preference. There are guys I can see going anywhere from 20 to 60 really depending on how much someone loves them and not really have any complaints wherever they end up.

Then there are guys like Shemar Stuart or James Pearce, either of which could go anywhere from 8 to 30. I've seen people have Landon Jackson and Nic Scourton at 4th best Edge and others at 8 or 9.

I'd be really tempted to double dip at Edge in the 3rd or 4th because I would not be surprised to see some very good Edge players come out of those rounds this year.

 

[BritCard]

Still working through guys. JT Tuimoloau is Zaven Collins in the NFL. He's going to be a solid run stopper with a 5-6 sacks upside and most of them will be effort sacks.

I like Jack Sawyer more than many (I think). I think he's a Markus Golden type player in the league. He's going to be good vs the run, strong boy, lots of great effort, can't bend for crap and not fast. But I think he's going to be a good Edge #2 for teams that have a great rusher opposite, like Golden had with Jones. I think he has 8-10 sack upside on the right team. I can see him going to the Lions opposite Hutchinson. Seems like a Dan Campbell type guy.

I wouldn't like to have to pick an Edge in this draft, so many guys with 80% of what you want and 20% missing, and all in different ways. Teams are going to draft Edge in the top 30 that are worse than guys that go lower.

In fact I've changed my mind on how we should draft. I thought it made more sense to take iDL in round 1 and Edge in #2 because of the depth, but so much of the depth is hit or miss type prospects I think we should go with Edge at #16. I think that if Pearce, Green or Scourton are there at 16 you take one of them because the drop off in certainty after that is pretty deep.

 

[DVontel]

Still working through guys. JT Tuimoloau is Zaven Collins in the NFL. He's going to be a solid run stopper with a 5-6 sacks upside and most of them will be effort sacks.

I like Jack Sawyer more than many (I think). I think he's a Markus Golden type player in the league. He's going to be good vs the run, strong boy, lots of great effort, can't bend for crap and not fast. But I think he's going to be a good Edge #2 for teams that have a great rusher opposite, like Golden had with Jones. I think he has 8-10 sack upside on the right team. I can see him going to the Lions opposite Hutchinson. Seems like a Dan Campbell type guy.

I wouldn't like to have to pick an Edge in this draft, so many guys with 80% of what you want and 20% missing, and all in different ways. Teams are going to draft Edge in the top 30 that are worse than guys that go lower.

In fact I've changed my mind on how we should draft. I thought it made more sense to take iDL in round 1 and Edge in #2 because of the depth, but so much of the depth is hit or miss type prospects I think we should go with Edge at #16. I think that if Pearce, Green or Scourton are there at 16 you take one of them because the drop off in certainty after that is pretty deep.

I feel like your analysis of Sawyer & JTT should be flipped.

Also, what is a “Dan Campbell type of guy” lol

 

[football karma]

I like Jack Sawyer more than many

I think Sawyer is going to be a really good pro

i think NFL staffs will value him more than pre-draft media does: they will value his run defense and all-football mentality

he also seems to make big plays at big moments.

 

[BritCard]

I feel like your analysis of Sawyer & JTT should be flipped.

Also, what is a “Dan Campbell type of guy” lol

I think Sawyer is smarter and has a better feel for the game, so more upside, but both similar limitations. Overall I like Sawyer more.

You know what a Dan Campbell kind of guy is. Bite your kneecaps off. Relentlessly aggressive.

 

[BritCard]

I think Sawyer is going to be a really good pro

i think NFL staffs will value him more than pre-draft media does: they will value his run defense and all-football mentality

he also seems to make big plays at big moments.

Same, which is why I think he might go late 1st to the Lions, but that's likely his ceiling.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

By above average player do you mean "a name people recognise"? I think that's what most people mean.

People put too much stock in names. That 2015 team, aside from Calais Campbell, had what? Frostee Rucker, Josh Mauro, Ed Stinson, Rodney Gunter, Golden, Woodley, Okafor, Kareem Martin and a cameo from Dwight Freeney's ghost.

No, by above average I mean above average. (Better than your average player). It has nothing to do with names - you're not going to seriously argue that anyone on our D-line/edge group has shown to be above average will you?

 

[DVontel]

I think Sawyer is going to be a really good pro

i think NFL staffs will value him more than pre-draft media does: they will value his run defense and all-football mentality

he also seems to make big plays at big moments.

I’ll be shocked if Sawyer becomes anything more than a JAG.

He just offers no upside whatsoever. He’s a white pass-rusher though so he’s always gonna get that “relentless, tough, plays with passion” label.

 

[Chopper0080]

I’ll be shocked if Sawyer becomes anything more than a JAG.

He just offers no upside whatsoever. He’s a white pass-rusher though so he’s always gonna get that “relentless, tough, plays with passion” label.

Just trying to gauge your view of JAG. Zaven Collins?

 

[DVontel]

Just trying to gauge your view of JAG. Zaven Collins?

Below Zaven, honestly.

 

[phillycard]

I’ll be shocked if Sawyer becomes anything more than a JAG.

He just offers no upside whatsoever. He’s a white pass-rusher though so he’s always gonna get that “relentless, tough, plays with passion” label.

Agreed. Something just bothers me about his overall game. I think because he was so passionate about OSU and his actions against Michigan give him a little more mystique than he deserves. Could be wrong though. He's just not high on my list.

 

[oaken1]

Agreed. Something just bothers me about his overall game. I think because he was so passionate about OSU and his actions against Michigan give him a little more mystique than he deserves. Could be wrong though. He's just not high on my list.

I wouldn't be afraid to draft him around 48..seems to have a decent floor, but also seems close to hie ceiling

 

[Harry]

Still working through guys. JT Tuimoloau is Zaven Collins in the NFL. He's going to be a solid run stopper with a 5-6 sacks upside and most of them will be effort sacks.

I like Jack Sawyer more than many (I think). I think he's a Markus Golden type player in the league. He's going to be good vs the run, strong boy, lots of great effort, can't bend for crap and not fast. But I think he's going to be a good Edge #2 for teams that have a great rusher opposite, like Golden had with Jones. I think he has 8-10 sack upside on the right team. I can see him going to the Lions opposite Hutchinson. Seems like a Dan Campbell type guy.

I wouldn't like to have to pick an Edge in this draft, so many guys with 80% of what you want and 20% missing, and all in different ways. Teams are going to draft Edge in the top 30 that are worse than guys that go lower.

In fact I've changed my mind on how we should draft. I thought it made more sense to take iDL in round 1 and Edge in #2 because of the depth, but so much of the depth is hit or miss type prospects I think we should go with Edge at #16. I think that if Pearce, Green or Scourton are there at 16 you take one of them because the drop off in certainty after that is pretty deep.

I think Tuimoloau gets more sacks than Sawyer. I’m okay with either in round 3 or later.

 

[football karma]

the ITS EARLY take on edge in the draft at #16

the YES! group:

Jalon Walker, GA
James Pearce, TEN
Mike Green, Marshall

the "I sure hope Monti sees something I dont" group at 16:

Mykel Williams, GA
Shemar Stewart, TX AM

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No. Not frugal. There just aren't any big name guys that are worth $25m a year so you're not going to get any splash moves. There are plenty of good players worth $8-15m though that can improve the team.

Hmm but there were last year in Hunter and greenard. Which means monti misjudged when he should have spent the cap.

I’m always advocating for GMs to look at draft eligible and free agent classes two years away and attack current free agency with that in mind. If last years free agent edge class was likely better than this years, don’t keep your powder dry. Spend it on the better class.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I kind of think that DRob + Beej + Nichols + Jones will “solidify” our Front 7 if we mean “placing them in the middle third of the NFL.

I expect more tho.

It would be like getting a new front four from players already on the roster. Which is nuts.

 

[BACH]

Just trying to gauge your view of JAG. Zaven Collins?

But isn't Collins the complete opposite of a JAG?

He ranks elite in run-stopping, but very average in coverage, tackling and pass-rush.

 

[BritCard]

I really hope we don't draft Jalon Walker. Just gives me Isaiah Simmons vibes.

Only 861 snaps in college. 420 at LB, 441 at Edge. He's strong and has good lateral movement but I don't see NFL edge there. No bend, no pass rush moves. No real plan, a "see ball, get ball" type of player. I've had enough of drafting hybrids and tweeners and hoping they work out.

I think he's an off ball backer that can rush the QB when required in the NFL.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

With Sawyer, I think he'll be a better pro than college player, but we'll see a solid steady guy. Zaven is probably a good comp. The thing with Sawyer is he bulked up to play DE. He could easily drop 10-15 pounds if a team wanted to play him as a pure edge and he'd be more athletic and quicker. But he's still not going to be a twitchy high sack guy.

 

[football karma]

this is interesting

i suspect he wants a trade as he had 2 years left on a contract paying $17.5mm with no guaranteed money -- so some sort of contract work has to happen if you acquire him

Monti would know him as well ( fwiw: his rep in the locker room and off is top notch)

My pov is he is a better player than Sweat

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[BritCard]

this is interesting

i suspect he wants a trade as he had 2 years left on a contract paying $17.5mm with no guaranteed money -- so some sort of contract work has to happen if you acquire him

Monti would know him as well ( fwiw: his rep in the locker room and off is top notch)

My pov is he is a better player than Sweat

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Yes, better than Sweat but also not a top tier guy.

His contract is pretty attractive at $17.5m cap hit the next 2 years and no guarantees, but it's the Titans might be moving him because Landry wants a new deal with guarantees.

Have to look at something like the Montez Sweat and Chase Young trades as a benchmark. I think Landry falls somewhere in between, late 2nd to mid 3rd kind of value. Maybe our 3rd and a 2026 5th, something like that.

 

[DVontel]

The Mike Green slide begins

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[football karma]

I really hope we don't draft Jalon Walker. Just gives me Isaiah Simmons vibes.

I think a Leonard Floyd comp is probably more accurate -- who has been an ok but not great pass rusher

Floyd, Micah Parsons and TJ Watt were all kinda LB, kinda pass rusher players in college who moved to edge

I think thats very diff than kinda Safety, kinda CB, kinda Ilb that Simmons was.

 

[football karma]

Yes, better than Sweat but also not a top tier guy.

His contract is pretty attractive at $17.5m cap hit the next 2 years and no guarantees, but it's the Titans might be moving him because Landry wants a new deal with guarantees.

Have to look at something like the Montez Sweat and Chase Young trades as a benchmark. I think Landry falls somewhere in between, late 2nd to mid 3rd kind of value. Maybe our 3rd and a 2026 5th, something like that.

Reddick with one year left on his deal was traded for a 3rd that could become a 2nd based on metrics -- and that pick was two drafts in the future (2026!). Reddick also only had a year left on the deal, but the Eagles were motivated in a similar fashion

2026 3rd that could become a 2nd maybe?