Should Ayton be Traded?

[Town Drunk]

It appears the Suns and Dallas were in trade talks involving Deandre Ayton for Tim Hardaway Jr., Rachaun Holmes and JaVale McGee but talks broke down because the Suns didn't have any interest in McGee.

Mavs, Suns Held Advanced Draft Night Talks On Deandre Ayton Trade

Mavs Suns Held Advanced Draft Night Talks On Deandre Ayton Trade - RealGM Wiretap

basketball.realgm.com

Sounds like the talks might pick back up. No future picks we’re going to be included.

“The trade would have sent Ayton to Dallas for Tim Hardaway Jr., Richaun Holmes and JaVale McGee, but the Suns objected to the inclusion of McGee. Even though the Suns wouldn't have acquired any future first round picks, they liked turning Ayton into two rotation players in Hardaway and Holmes.

Sources tell Stein that the talks could be resumed.”

 

[Covert Rain]

It appears the Suns and Dallas were in trade talks involving Deandre Ayton for Tim Hardaway Jr., Rachaun Holmes and JaVale McGee but talks broke down because the Suns didn't have any interest in McGee.

Mavs, Suns Held Advanced Draft Night Talks On Deandre Ayton Trade

Mavs Suns Held Advanced Draft Night Talks On Deandre Ayton Trade - RealGM Wiretap

basketball.realgm.com

I read that and thank goodness. That trade would have been the equivalent of trading Ayton for a SF. Holmes/McGee are throw ins to make the dollars work I am assuming (I have not looked)? We have to get a legit rotation big in return. You cannot make that trade. Now if we got a legit rotation big as the main piece and throw ins that could possibly fill out the bench that would be different.

Terrible trade as is.

 

[Yuma]

I think the big hold up in all this is potentially July 14th when Deandre's no trade clause expires. For the Suns to get "anything" of value, it's probably to a team Deandre doesn't want to go to. Or, if you look at it in a good way, if I was Deandre, no way I want moved off a team with KD, Book, and Beal.

However, I have watched some podcasts with Suns beat writers and content creators that are at the facilities, and they are saying there was a narrative last season that Deandre was wanting more touches, etc. In fact when they looked it up, he was averaging more shots, touches, etc., than he did in 2021 which is considered his best season, and a lot of his numbers and percentages were worse. So they are saying if Ayton wants to be more of a focal point, that's not happening after adding Beal. There is going to be friction there if he stays. They are skeptical he will be happy just rebounding and blocking shots.

IDK, the packages rumored to be out there, in hindsight, probably peaked when we were offered Sabonis for Ayton. In an alternate timeline, we probably don't make the KD trade if we get Sabonis. Me, I think JJ was holding on to all those picks, etc., to try and get KD. We turned down a lot of trade offers over that stretch, and it seemed JJ was keeping his powder dry for KD.

Now with Dallas they can't just turn around and trade Holmes right away. That will have to be months down the road.

 

[Phrazbit]

That isn’t even rotation players. McGee and Holmes are absolutely useless, Hardaway is Shamet but with name recognition.

I’d go berserk if we did something so stupid.

 

[Muggz]

That isn’t even rotation players. McGee and Holmes are absolutely useless, Hardaway is Shamet but with name recognition.

I’d go berserk if we did something so stupid.

I'm shocked the Suns turned that one down. One guy who wont score 10 ppg and 2 guys that should be working at a Footlocker.
This is the reason DA is still and will likely remain a Sun.

If talks with Dallas DO pick back up then Ishbia isn't who I thought he was.
With a proposal like that I'd tell Dallas to F off forever. And I hope that Ishbia feels the same way.

 

[GatorAZ]

It’s to the point where teams are looking at DA as a negative asset. That Dallas package if accurate is insulting.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s to the point where teams are looking at DA as a negative asset. That Dallas package if accurate is insulting.

I don't think there's any doubt it's a negative asset in that his value on the court doesn't rise to the level of his salary. A year ago, a negative asset didn't really hurt you because you could still trade it for value. But right now franchises are viewing an overpaid player differently - if he doesn't measure up to his contract you either have to take bad money back or sweeten the pot.

 

[Mainstreet]

I read that and thank goodness. That trade would have been the equivalent of trading Ayton for a SF. Holmes/McGee are throw ins to make the dollars work I am assuming (I have not looked)? We have to get a legit rotation big in return. You cannot make that trade. Now if we got a legit rotation big as the main piece and throw ins that could possibly fill out the bench that would be different.

Terrible trade as is.

It is a terrible trade, especially with McGee. I like Holmes more than most but his value is really low.

 

[Yuma]

It’s to the point where teams are looking at DA as a negative asset. That Dallas package if accurate is insulting.

It is Mark Cuban. I know he probably told the GM start with a low ball bid and see what happens. I think most teams are doing that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Really. Holmes and Hardaway Jr.? That's a pretty weak return.

There must really not be much interest. It will be interesting once teams miss out on their free agent targets they might be more willing to make a better offer for Ayton just to make a change.

It's a weak trade made even weaker with McGee who has a minus value.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sounds like the talks might pick back up. No future picks we’re going to be included.

“The trade would have sent Ayton to Dallas for Tim Hardaway Jr., Richaun Holmes and JaVale McGee, but the Suns objected to the inclusion of McGee. Even though the Suns wouldn't have acquired any future first round picks, they liked turning Ayton into two rotation players in Hardaway and Holmes.

Sources tell Stein that the talks could be resumed.”

I do not like the trade as proposed. It became a non-starter with McGee's contract. I don't like dealing with Dallas, period.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the big hold up in all this is potentially July 14th when Deandre's no trade clause expires. For the Suns to get "anything" of value, it's probably to a team Deandre doesn't want to go to. Or, if you look at it in a good way, if I was Deandre, no way I want moved off a team with KD, Book, and Beal.

However, I have watched some podcasts with Suns beat writers and content creators that are at the facilities, and they are saying there was a narrative last season that Deandre was wanting more touches, etc. In fact when they looked it up, he was averaging more shots, touches, etc., than he did in 2021 which is considered his best season, and a lot of his numbers and percentages were worse. So they are saying if Ayton wants to be more of a focal point, that's not happening after adding Beal. There is going to be friction there if he stays. They are skeptical he will be happy just rebounding and blocking shots.

IDK, the packages rumored to be out there, in hindsight, probably peaked when we were offered Sabonis for Ayton. In an alternate timeline, we probably don't make the KD trade if we get Sabonis. Me, I think JJ was holding on to all those picks, etc., to try and get KD. We turned down a lot of trade offers over that stretch, and it seemed JJ was keeping his powder dry for KD.

Now with Dallas they can't just turn around and trade Holmes right away. That will have to be months down the road.

Just tell Deandre the Suns have a worse destination in mind if he doesn't agree to be traded before July 14th.

 

[Raindog]

I do not like the trade as proposed. It became a non-starter with McGee's contract. I don't like dealing with Dallas, period.

Agreed. Why take a crap deal, and then potentially improve a conference rival on top of that? Ayton's value isn't so low that the Suns have to take it up the wazoo. And even if it was, they can afford to wait until the market shifts... and it will.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Vogel (today) sounding pretty confident about "inspiring" DeAndre Ayton

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

“I think you can definitely reach all players,” Vogel said. “Players have to be inspired and have to feel good about their role and have to feel good about coming to work every day. If you create those types of situations for a player, the effort and motor piece just comes naturally.

“I’ve seen Deandre play with extreme effort. I’ve seen him play at a near-All-Star level quite frankly … I know it’s there. Obviously, he had some bumps in the road along the way but we’re at a point right now with a fresh start that I feel like he’s going to have a great season for us.”

 

[BirdGangThing]

Bickley (today) on Ayton

The talent is there. We all know it. We’ve all seen it. But Ayton lacks the very attributes that Vogel claims to want in his basketball players. And by the end of the Western Conference semifinals, Devin Booker couldn’t hide his frustration in a group that came to an undeniable conclusion:

Ayton doesn’t want it. Not like they do. For three consecutive postseasons, Ayton has reached a point of no return and no mas. That’s why a trade is the best endgame for everyone involved.

Bickley: Can Suns' Frank Vogel really transform Deandre Ayton?

You desperately want to believe a new voice can trigger real transformation in Deandre Ayton. Can the right environment make that happen?

arizonasports.com

 

[Mainstreet]

Bickley (today) on Ayton

The talent is there. We all know it. We’ve all seen it. But Ayton lacks the very attributes that Vogel claims to want in his basketball players. And by the end of the Western Conference semifinals, Devin Booker couldn’t hide his frustration in a group that came to an undeniable conclusion:

Ayton doesn’t want it. Not like they do. For three consecutive postseasons, Ayton has reached a point of no return and no mas. That’s why a trade is the best endgame for everyone involved.

Bickley: Can Suns' Frank Vogel really transform Deandre Ayton?

You desperately want to believe a new voice can trigger real transformation in Deandre Ayton. Can the right environment make that happen?

arizonasports.com

Do I want to listen to a Frank Vogel, a coach who has won an NBA championship or Dan Bickley.

The choice is obvious to me.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I would tell Ayton to go bang heck with the fouls. Go foul out but bang with the other players take it to them.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Do I want to listen to a Frank Vogel, a coach who has won an NBA championship or Dan Bickley.

The choice is obvious to me.

Agreed - but I also think that's what Vogel has to say - for the benefit of Ayton's mentals and his possible trade potential

Even if Vogel did have opinions similar to Bickley's - Vogel wouldn't say so

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It appears the Suns and Dallas were in trade talks involving Deandre Ayton for Tim Hardaway Jr., Rachaun Holmes and JaVale McGee but talks broke down because the Suns didn't have any interest in McGee.

Mavs, Suns Held Advanced Draft Night Talks On Deandre Ayton Trade

Mavs Suns Held Advanced Draft Night Talks On Deandre Ayton Trade - RealGM Wiretap

basketball.realgm.com

Vomit

 

[Mainstreet]

Agreed - but I also think that's what Vogel has to say - for the benefit of Ayton's mentals and his possible trade potential

Even if Vogel did have opinions similar to Bickley's - Vogel wouldn't say so

I prefer Frank Vogel's opinion until I hear otherwise or Deandre Ayton is traded.

 

[95pro]

Agreed - but I also think that's what Vogel has to say - for the benefit of Ayton's mentals and his possible trade potential

Even if Vogel did have opinions similar to Bickley's - Vogel wouldn't say so

Vogel is just a positive person which I think will do wonders for Ayton. He’s not saying it to just say it.

 

[nashman]

I would tell Ayton to go bang heck with the fouls. Go foul out but bang with the other players take it to them.

The same guy that will shoot a fade away from under the basket, he is not a contact guy couldn’t be further from it! If Vogel just wants him to D up and rebound he is not gonna be happy with that role he wants to shoot and score sees himself as a star…lol

 

[Carolinacacti]

Ayton had so many tic tac fouls. I believe he played soft to not foul out. We have all seen him bang, well maybe not you. I believe he will be happy, his camp will not be happy.

 

[nashman]

If watching DA the last five years doesn’t tell you he avoids contact then you’re not paying attention!

 

[95pro]

Ayton had so many tic tac fouls. I believe he played soft to not foul out. We have all seen him bang, well maybe not you. I believe he will be happy, his camp will not be happy.

I agree and disagree on this. One side he does get called for a lot of crap calls while others are allowed to be more physical. I think he even got T'd up once for "taunting" even though it wasn't a taunt, it was such a bogus call. This is a league/ref issue. The other side is Ayton, when he's checked out he doesn't want to whole heartedly try, this is the Ayton we are all frustrated with.

I've said it before, but if you watch his rookie games there's a night and day difference between rookie Ayton and current Ayton, this just leads me to believe more and more of this was on Monty (or Ayton just smokes more or got of the Peds).