Should Dennis Green coach this team next year?

[LVCARDFREAK]

When did I say his draft sucked? I said he reached for falling Ol's (brown, Leckey and Step) but overall I thought he had a great draft 2 years ago and a good draft this year. I think JJ has been a huge disappointment, who will look a lot better if the OL is fixed. I said all along we drafted him too early because if we'd have waited, he was gone before we every pick in round 3. I said from day 1 he wasn't going to be an instant impact player and I don't think he'll ever be a great player, good, not great. He needs to get tougher, that's obvious, and he needs time to do that.

Just like a few years ago I was arguing that all the people saying Pace is a bust cut his ass were crazy because it was obvious the kid had some talent but needed to get stronger, and learn some pass rush moves. JJ is the same way he has talent but he needs to run stronger. You want to talk about bias explain how you're still defending Pace after 3 years and were trashing JJ in the preseason of his rookie year?

I'm not saying fire Green because JJ has had a bad year, hell I would love to get Bush, or DeAngelo Williams, or Lendale White, all of whom would put JJ on the bench. I don't care if he starts or not if we have a better player there. My point this year is Shipp is NOT a better player and that was obvious for weeks. Because of what happened last week I think JJ is unlikely to get more work the rest of the year, he has to win back the respect of his teammates and rightly so.

Apparently you're just mad at me today, hell in another thread I explain why it's ok for Anquan to give up on a play but not ok for JJ to do it, and you trash me for that because you misunderstood my point.

I am not mad...I was earlier b/c we lost to a Texans team that seemed to be TRYING to lose. And agin, all the things, well most of things you mentioned about Green I actually agree with. His handling of the oline and Lindsey, etc (although I dont agree with you ont he Kendell thing, but I am not getting into that now).

My biggest problem with people onthis baord who want Green fired is that we have no alternative out there that I believe can come in and make things right. We know DG has personell ability-thats undisputed, so I do not want to give that up for another half-assed Tobin or Mac type guy that not only is an unknown quantity as a x's and o's guy but that also probably couldnt hold DG's jock as far as personel goes.

Now most wont want to admit this, but the hiring of DG was a real coup for this franchise. It isnt everyday this franchise can land a guy with the coahcing resume Green has. And if he is let go, or leaves, this franchise will be right back to the Mac era type regime with some unknown coordinator that will muck up the franchise even more...

Like I said if you can give me the name of the next Lovie Smith or Marvin Lewis I am on the bandwagon. But there just isnt anyone out there that I feel is as qualifed as DG is or who brings what DG does to the table. (at least on the personell side for those who believ he is a bad coach)

I like Pace b/c, like you and JJ, I watched him play for years and know a little bit more about his mental make up and ability then someone who just trashes him. Yes he was picked too high, yes he was in over his head his rookie year, but there were clear indications these past two years that he has ability.

I am not willing to give up on JJ. I understand no rb is gonna look great behind this oline, but whats scares me about JJ isnt his lack of production, it is his seemingly skiddishness (sp) in taking hits. No one likes to take them but he has shown more than a few signs this year that he will go down or not give extra effort, in order to avoid hits. That is a huge concern...

Asfar asbeing better than Shipp? man I dont know, SHipp definitly runs harder and I think witht he lack of an oline that would indicate to me he is the better back in this situation.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

and now an extra point try botched and returned for points by a 1-11 team!!!!!!

.

dont get points for returning an extra point int he NFL

 

[Russ Smith]

I am not willing to give up on JJ. I understand no rb is gonna look great behind this oline, but whats scares me about JJ isnt his lack of production, it is his seemingly skiddishness (sp) in taking hits. No one likes to take them but he has shown more than a few signs this year that he will go down or not give extra effort, in order to avoid hits. That is a huge concern...

Asfar asbeing better than Shipp? man I dont know, SHipp definitly runs harder and I think witht he lack of an oline that would indicate to me he is the better back in this situation.

So why was JJ averaging nearly a yard more per carry going into the game despite being the backup?

Shipp runs harder, no questionm but he's just slow as can be since the injury. I love his heart, but he's just not an NFL starting RB anymore, way too slow.

Arrington needs to run tougher, I think Green realizes this and I think that's why today 4 of his 7 runs went up the middle, my guess is Green figures one way to toughen him up is make him run inside. he'll either get tougher, or he'll prove he's a wimp.

that's why I was so mad at JJ last week, between the fumble and the 4th down play he totally blew his chance to take full control as the #1 RB, that was his game to do it, and he blew it.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

So why was JJ averaging nearly a yard more per carry going into the game despite being the backup?

Shipp runs harder, no questionm but he's just slow as can be since the injury. I love his heart, but he's just not an NFL starting RB anymore, way too slow.

Arrington needs to run tougher, I think Green realizes this and I think that's why today 4 of his 7 runs went up the middle, my guess is Green figures one way to toughen him up is make him run inside. he'll either get tougher, or he'll prove he's a wimp.

that's why I was so mad at JJ last week, between the fumble and the 4th down play he totally blew his chance to take full control as the #1 RB, that was his game to do it, and he blew it.

I can only say I hope you are right. Of course McCown has the best ypc avarage of aanyone, shoudl we start him at RB?

Until I see him try harder and actually show some heart I cant back him. Maybe he will, but that display against the skins last week is stamped into my mind. (along witht he "duck" he did in preseason against KC)

 

[Duckjake]

dont get points for returning an extra point int he NFL

Didn't know that. Just saw the Texan player hell bent for the end zone and assumed they got points for it. Guess he didn't know that either. And he didn't even have the excuse of having too much Cardinal Kool Aid.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Didn't know that. Just saw the Texan player hell bent for the end zone and assumed they got points for it. Guess he didn't know that either. And he didn't even have the excuse of having too much Cardinal Kool Aid.

Yeah maybe they should have given him points. He sure did earn it running 90 yards!

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah maybe they should have given him points. He sure did earn it running 90 yards!

Imagine the ribbing he's going to get from his teamates.

 

[ajcardfan]

Yeah maybe they should have given him points. He sure did earn it running 90 yards!

He wasn't trying to score. He was running for his life. He was terrified because Scott Player was bearing down on him.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can only say I hope you are right. Of course McCown has the best ypc avarage of aanyone, shoudl we start him at RB?

Until I see him try harder and actually show some heart I cant back him. Maybe he will, but that display against the skins last week is stamped into my mind. (along witht he "duck" he did in preseason against KC)

Did you see the Tampa Bay/new England game Saturday? Cadillac took a dive at least 4 times. The announcers even commented on how yeah they're playing 8 in the box and yeah they're all over Cadillac when he gets the ball but this is not the way this kid ran earlier in the year. They were speculating he was either hurt, or having trouble with his footing(weather) but he wasn't slipping he was going down to avoid big hits because he had no chance to run before the d was on him.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Did you see the Tampa Bay/new England game Saturday? Cadillac took a dive at least 4 times. The announcers even commented on how yeah they're playing 8 in the box and yeah they're all over Cadillac when he gets the ball but this is not the way this kid ran earlier in the year. They were speculating he was either hurt, or having trouble with his footing(weather) but he wasn't slipping he was going down to avoid big hits because he had no chance to run before the d was on him.

Do you believe that is what JJ is doing?

I dont. But I really dont have any proff. Maybe it is that he is just gonna get walloped, Hell I dont know, but when he dices down or goes into the line ass first it appears that he is fearful of taking a big hit.

I guess playing behind this porous oline could do that to you.

 

[KingofCards]

hey all we had to do last year was win 2 more games and we were 500. Can anybody think of 2 games last year that we could have won? you know against a team that only won 2 games all year, both against us?

We were MORE competitive under Green last year than under Mac, and we were honestly more competitive last year than this year. I do agree with KOC injuries have hammered us this year. But we were relative healthy when we laid an egg against the Giants, the Rams, even Seattle, really Center was the only position we were in dire straits in at that time.

The Giants and Seattle are Playoff teams.

The first half of our schedule turned out to be brutal. The second half was easy and we still had a shot 7-9 until today.

 

[AZCB34]

Um, do you recall the "talent" we had on our roster when Green got here? The offense looks about the same but our defense is on a whole other world than what Mac left it. Recall Ray Thompson being our best defensive player? What about Dennis Johnson being our starting defensive end? And how could we forget such other luminaries as Levar Fisher and Barron Tanner. These guys were starters with Mac and not surprisingly, they're all currently out of the NFL.

As far as the offense goes, we had overpaid mediocre offensive linemen then just as we do now. The QB position is a joke and remains such as is thh running backs. The lack of talent on the offense can be blamed on Green as he promised a Top 5 offense and we're nowhere close to that, but let's not go overboard in suggesting this team is worse now than it was two years ago. The 2003 Cardinals were easily one of the five worst NFL teams I have ever seen.

I've said there is more talent on this team...repeatedly. But these coaches cannot get anough out of the talent they have assembled and this does not appear to be much of a team.

 

[KingofCards]

I've said there is more talent on this team...repeatedly. But these coaches cannot get anough out of the talent they have assembled and this does not appear to be much of a team.

The dudes they lined up after the first quarter today were not more talented than the team that started out in 2004.

Injuries, while a part of the game, do count.

 

[Pariah]

I think he probably should be, that is unless, we can hire a guy that is a slam-dunk coach (ie Jimmy Johnson).

I just don't see that happening, though. So, I voted to keep him around one more year.

 

[KingofCards]

I think he probably should be, that is unless, we can hire a guy that is a slam-dunk coach (ie Jimmy Johnson).

I just don't see that happening, though. So, I voted to keep him around one more year.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Giants and Seattle are Playoff teams.

The first half of our schedule turned out to be brutal. The second half was easy and we still had a shot 7-9 until today.

the Giants game was completely lost on special teams. now remember all the talk from Green th elast 2 weeks about how the ST problems were because of all the injuries, was that true the FIRST game of the season too?

 

[Russ Smith]

60% want Green back, 40 want him gone at the moment.

 

[ajcardfan]

the Giants game was completely lost on special teams. now remember all the talk from Green th elast 2 weeks about how the ST problems were because of all the injuries, was that true the FIRST game of the season too?

I know we started out the season with a few players injured. Hayes and Redmond would've played on every special team.

We're leading the league in guys on IR and games lost to injury. You can probably use the fingers on one hand to count how many teams had winning records leading the league in games lost due to injury. I doubt any owner would fire a coach at this point with that fact.

That said, the coaching has been a disappointment. We've lost a few close games due to mental errors.

 

[KingofCards]

I think these same guys calling for Green's head didn't like the hiring in the first place.

I know for a fact, that over the years, two of the diehards calling for Green's head, get an idea in their head and never, ever let go of it.

 

[WildBB]

Based on his drafts only, he gets one more yr. to turn it around. But he is vastly over rated as a coach. Some things have passed him by. Discipline is not a strength either. He is a good motivator for the young guys. But the preparedness seems to be lacking. They need a little more immaginative planning from week to week, change things up more and not be so basic from week to week. I liked for instance when they ran Arrington on screens and short routes to exploit his big play potential and get him past the LOS, but they seemed to shelf it when it worked. It's all the little things that don't get done that still haunt this team - and it starts at the top.

 

[Brian]

I'll throw out a name for a head coach. (following the line of who is the next Marvin Lewis).

Ron Rivera, defensive coordinator for the Chicago Bears.

What he could do with the speed we have on D.......scary.

 

[AZCB34]

I think these same guys calling for Green's head didn't like the hiring in the first place.

I know for a fact, that over the years, two of the diehards calling for Green's head, get an idea in their head and never, ever let go of it.

Who, moi?

Injuries are part of the problem but the lack of what I view as quality coaching in certain phases should be a concern to all and while Denny certainly insulates himself from problems as best he can, he is still the boss and should be held accountable. Everyone here was giddy when Denny was holding players accountable yet when it is time to hold Denny accountable...well it is "Denny gets a free pass this year because it is a 3 year process". Ummm...how did Miami do last year compared to this year? 4-12 last year and now 7-7. I am not sure Miami was that vastly better on paper when the seasson fired up than the Cards.

So what happens in 2008? Will the mantra be "Denny gets a free pass this year because we know the rebuilding process takes 5 years"?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I've said there is more talent on this team...repeatedly. But these coaches cannot get anough out of the talent they have assembled and this does not appear to be much of a team.

Then how come you keep insisting that Green has made things worse than they were under McGinnis? Sure the coaching has been terrible so far under Denny but at least there will be some talent for the next guy should we fire him. That couldn't be said with McGinnis.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I'll throw out a name for a head coach. (following the line of who is the next Marvin Lewis).

Ron Rivera, defensive coordinator for the Chicago Bears.

What he could do with the speed we have on D.......scary.

Thanks Harley...at least someone answered the $64,000 question.

 

[cardsfan22]

If you fire Green then the players are going to know that they can do whatever they want because they know he wont be here in 2 years and they dont have to listen to him or buy into the system

Under Green they know it is his way or the highway. You will buy into his system or you will be looking for work elsewhere.

early in the year i wanted a new coach, But the more i thought about it, the more I think we need to give Green a good 4 years to turn this team around.

I dont think this team is that far away from being an 8-8 team. A couple of O-lineman, a couple of Moves on Defense,resign Warner to a three year deal, And we draft that QBOF. We do that, I think we are in the hunt for the playoffs next year