Should Hunter contributed even more than he did?

[thegrahamcrackr]

Don't you believe that Amare can become the "point center". Why do you think that term was invented.

The term was invented to make him happy. My guess is that is will simply mean the offense revolves more around him. Unless his handle is significantly better he will not be able to do what you want.


His jump shot will have to be respected, but only when it is set. The ball handler will not get a set shot, it will be off the dribble. Amare does not have that skill.

If the center switches, Amare will have the same matchup as last year. Of course that matchup will now be happening at 18 feet away from the basket instead of 5. So yes the players involved will be the same, but Amare will not be able to do anything from here.

He could spot up from that point, but that makes the pick and roll unneeded. He could try to drive, only to have a help defender slide into the lane to take the charge.


You were right about 1 thing though. On a double team KT would knock down the jumper. Of course no one would double team Amare in that situation.

 

[PhxGametime]

Well I never said people are more intimated by Hunter than KT but Hunter is a great shot-blocker per min...


I don't hate KT, he's actually a good pick-up - I just think, the board takes the part about being such a much better DEFENSIVELY Team a little too serious. Remember it's the Suns, throwing that out... KT is a defender much like Googs but dirtier, and it is my opinion that doesn't really scare anybody?


On paper Bell is known as defender but what I've been saying is JJ was a defender too, so if you lose one great defender for another, how's that improving? I have pointed out, that Bell against elite threats, didn't slow em down and if he's not getting a lot of minutes against elite offensive players, being known as shut down defender... than something doesn't seem right? I've also said the Team loses out on losing JJ's skills but everybody seems to agree...


I just don't like the type of defender the Team went after... I do like Boris Diaw, James Jones, etc. Long defenders that get in passing lane and will play honest defense... but KT and Bell are the type of defenders that some people wanted but I'm just pointing out, I don't care for what Teams did too Steve Nash, etc. and well that's what Team is going to see from KT and Bell...

If the Team adds defenders that they say will improve Team, I was in hope for someone who can slow down a player, out quick a player, change shots, get a steal, get a block, play physical but not dirty play, shut-down a player, out-jump, etc. not just out muscle, I'm just saying that doesn't appeal to ME, I know there's been talk about that's what the Suns need, and I just don't agree.


I really do like the KT Trade BUT come on, I feel the Team should've got a 1st Rounder not give 1 up and that's large in part how I'm starting to think of Sarver and cheapness, remember Team are allowed to go over cap but he REFUSES... but anywho the Pick is gone...


I just remember a lot of members getting ansy talking about - lay off Nash, come on the other Team always handchecks us and we never do, etc. and now everybody thinks KT and Bell are going to lead us the Title (in which, Marion, Stoudemire, and Nash will) - if that kind of play irrated (sp) some of you then - well I'm telling you, expect to see that on our Team now... if the Suns still don't want to foul and keep game speed up, then for 1 I am worried because they're not shut down defenders but tough, physical, smack ya type... and well that usually leads to fouls? I have pointed out how much they both foul in limited minutes...


I have stated I was fine with KT aboard but why Bell when they knew JJ wasn't signed yet... and how fragile he is? I knew he'd leave after that...


Anywho... well this message is giving ME a headache but I think I answered most of what I've been talking about and which was questioned in this Thread...

 

[coloradosun]

He could spot up from that point, but that makes the pick and roll unneeded. He could try to drive, only to have a help defender slide into the lane to take the charge.


You were right about 1 thing though. On a double team KT would knock down the jumper. Of course no one would double team Amare in that situation.

The pick and roll has a second benefit if it does not create an open shot and that is to make mismatches.

I am confused, in the first paragraph you say " have a help defender slide into the lane" and in the second paragraph you say "no one would double team". Isn't a help defender double teaming, and if Amare can recognize the help defender in enough time he could pass it out to Nash and company.

If Amare has worked on going to his left, I think he could be come a very effective "point center".

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The pick and roll has a second benefit if it does not create an open shot and that is to make mismatches.

I am confused, in the first paragraph you say " have a help defender slide into the lane" and in the second paragraph you say "no one would double team". Isn't a help defender double teaming, and if Amare can recognize the help defender in enough time he could pass it out to Nash and company.

If Amare has worked on going to his left, I think he could be come a very effective "point center".

The help defender slides in case Amare beats the center off the dribble (pretty likely).

No one will double Amare off of the pick.

 

[Errntknght]

coloradosun, >>I am confused, in the first paragraph you say " have a help defender slide into the lane" and in the second paragraph you say "no one would double team". Isn't a help defender double teaming<<

Technically, this is not a double team because the 'slider' is not actively guarding Amare - the rule of thumb for 'actively guarding' is being within arms length. It has been called a soft double team, though I haven't heard that term much of late. In general, if a player is driving in an attempt to score and a second defender actively starts guarding him that is usually not referred to as a double team, even though that's exactly what it is. Of course, there is a gray area between what is called 'double teaming' and what 'help D' - and that changes depending on the distance from the basket and how badly beaten the primary defender is.

As long as I'm being technical I should point out that Amare and KT wouldn't be running a pick & roll because KT does not roll to hoop after setting that kind of pick - he slides away or 'pops' away so it is called a pick & pop (or a pick & fade.)

I agree that we won't see Amare and KT running a pick & pop out high where Nash and Amare run the pick & roll but we might see a similar play on the left wing at about 15 feet out. Amare would be faced up then KT sets the screen on Amare's right side. The defense has various options but it's going to be hard for them to avoid a switch - and the Suns would do this when they wanted the switch. What's different from the high pick play is that Amare is faced up within his shooting range and it's also within KT's shooting range. Plus Amare has lots of operating room to his right. Could a weak side defender slide into the lane to cut him off if he started to drive right? Of course but whoever he left would be in Amare's field of vision so it would be a relatively easy pass to make.

Before KT comes to set the screen it's the same place Amare sets up on the left side for an isolation play. As a variation KT could start to set the screen then slide past Amare's defender toward the baseline - if his own defender has started cheating because of the expected screen he could be open immediately for a jumper or the defenders might have to switch immediately. KT knows this whole maneuver well... he and the Knicks killed the Suns one game with it.

 

[Errntknght]

Chaplain >>
[Quote from Chaplin]"Amare wouldn't have had his monster series against SA if Hunter played more..."

[Quote from Errntknght]Hunter did play more in that series - 20.6 mpg vs. 13.8 in the reg. season - a fifty percent increase. If you're of the opinion that had Hunter played even more that he actually did then Amare would have scored a lot less... well, we're all entitled to an opinion.


[Chaplain]And...?<<

I didn't think the logic would stump anyone, sorry.

Since Hunter did play 50 percent more than his usual minutes and Amare did score much more than usual, it follows that any statement that Hunter playing more would cause Amare to score less is directly contrary to what data there is. Hence, a bald claim like "Amare wouldn't have had his monster series against SA if Hunter played more..." looks absurd.

I hope this clarifies it for you.

Chaplain, "Hunter did play more, did that help us defensively? Not at all."

We've been here before... I think this sequence leads to that original and devastating rejoiner, "Since you think you know so much why don't you apply for the coaching job." One of these times I'll probably give in to the urge to reply, "Nyanya nyanya... it takes one to know one..."

 

[Chaplin]

Chaplain >>
[Quote from Chaplin]"Amare wouldn't have had his monster series against SA if Hunter played more..."

[Quote from Errntknght]Hunter did play more in that series - 20.6 mpg vs. 13.8 in the reg. season - a fifty percent increase. If you're of the opinion that had Hunter played even more that he actually did then Amare would have scored a lot less... well, we're all entitled to an opinion.


[Chaplain]And...?<<

I didn't think the logic would stump anyone, sorry.

Since Hunter did play 50 percent more than his usual minutes and Amare did score much more than usual, it follows that any statement that Hunter playing more would cause Amare to score less is directly contrary to what data there is. Hence, a bald claim like "Amare wouldn't have had his monster series against SA if Hunter played more..." looks absurd.

I hope this clarifies it for you.

Chaplain, "Hunter did play more, did that help us defensively? Not at all."

We've been here before... I think this sequence leads to that original and devastating rejoiner, "Since you think you know so much why don't you apply for the coaching job." One of these times I'll probably give in to the urge to reply, "Nyanya nyanya... it takes one to know one..."

Ok, Errnt, you got me on the Hunter playing more part here. But none of this post does anything to reinforce your reasons for your love of Hunter and his game. And I'm not sure of the last part--are you implying that I am calling you names?

I will stick with my opinion that a guy who is considered a "shotblocker" and nothing else isn't going to help any team, especially if he isn't intimidating enough to actually make a difference in the lane.

Oh, and after this many years, you still can't spell my screen name right?

 

[Neo]

What denomination are you Chaplain? Are you in the Army like Father Mulcahy on MASH?

 

[Errntknght]

Chaplin, "Oh, and after this many years, you still can't spell my screen name right?"

I apologize for that. Hopefully, I'll remember should the occasion ever arise again - but I do tend to continue misspelling anything I did in the past. I guess the wrong spelling gets stored in the muscle memory of my fingers and I don't think much about spelling as I type.

Chaplin, "And I'm not sure of the last part--are you implying that I am calling you names?"

No. If I'd meant that my last words probably would have been "Sticks and stones may break my bones...." It was just a random childish retort - to give an idea of the level the posts had declined to at that point. Of course, taunts of the form, "Since you think you're so smart why don't you..." are a step above that - from our juvenile years, wouldn't you agree?