Should it be CB Newsome or CB Farley at #16?

[Shane]

I read it. It’s horsecrap. And I say that not only as someone who has extensive first hand knowledge of the L5-S1 disc, but also knows and had talked to orthopedic surgeons who are Cards fans and amongst the most respected in the state, one retired and one who’s a surgeon at the Mayo Clinic.

You don’t go in for back surgery to do half fixes. You go in to do the work that hopefully takes care of the entire problem the first time because every successive surgery only leads you on a road to ruin.

fair enough

 

[Proximo]

Gambo just emphatically said that at #16 -- its Farley over Newsome

Newsome only in a trade down situation

Good.

 

[Dr. Jones]

how can you trust the medical if he can’t workout... especially after the first surgery didn’t give the “medical” needed for success.

I agree. We've seemed to draft Hokies in the past and I would hope we had a good line to their training staff. It could be a pipe dream.

Did you read the detailed story? Sounds like he didn’t opt for a procedure that was a full fix the first time?

Cheese said all I could have.

Newsome has risen up boards since January & has been projected between 16-25 for a while now.

How is that “way too early”?

I think he's a mid 20's level CB prospect. But I've been wrong before.

Also, the fact of going off-ball LB before CB in the 1st scares the hell out of me.

We did it last year for Simmons.

I was thinking more about Parsons personally but my list (in no particular order) would probably be:
Surtain
Horn
Farley
Smith
Waddle
Parsons
Collins
Paye
Slater
Ojulari

All of which I like better than Newsome. Also...... I subtracted the "for sure to get drafted before we pick" players from that list.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I really don't want Farley and I think #16 is way too high for a guy with his lack of experience and injury history.

So Newsome.

I have a little feeling that Surtain or Horn (or both) are going to be there in the early teens and that Keim may do a little trade up.

Farley has an injury history so he's the perfect pick for Keim lol. If you listen to Farley, he's the best CB in this draft hands down lol.

 

[DVontel]

Surtain
Horn
Farley
Smith
Waddle
Parsons
Collins
Paye
Slater
Ojulari

All of which I like better than Newsome. Also...... I subtracted the "for sure to get drafted before we pick" players from that list.

I’m not sure how you managed to do that when you still have Slater, Surtain/Horn, & Waddle/Smith on there.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I’m not sure how you managed to do that when you still have Slater, Surtain/Horn, & Waddle/Smith on there.

I like those 10 guys above Newsome. I like a few more also.
But with 4 qb’s, pitts, chase, and Sewell all going before we pick, one of those 10 will be available at 16. Probably 2 or 3 actually.

 

[Shane]

Farley has an injury history so he's the perfect pick for Keim lol. If you listen to Farley, he's the best CB in this draft hands down lol.

Quite a few other then him think it

 

[Solar7]

At this point, I frankly don't like either guy. I don't have an alternative at this point though, I'd honestly just love to trade back. I don't anticipate there being a good trade partner, however.

 

[overseascardfan]

being young and having two back surgeries makes it more likely he DOESNT recover, or alternatively means he’s much more likely to have the injury become recurrent. Knee surgeries and multiple back surgeries are completely different beasts, which is why I don’t think the Sherman injury come back really comes into play.

I mean, I’m not sure how you can “he’s young, he’ll recover” when he already didn’t recover from the first back surgery which is what necessitates a second. Guys... back surgery, whether it’s a microdiscectomy, lamenectomy or full fusion are LAST resorts when rest and rehab won’t cut it. They’re last resorts because they never truly heal. You don’t generate new disc material after its taken out. The structure of the back, the core of the entire body that can effects everything from head to toe, is irrevocably changed. Having done that twice and one as recent as March is just too much risk, IMO. We can’t keep blowing first round picks. This is just asking for it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lucass...b-gronkowskis-injury-history/?sh=37aa74d62b1e
Rob Gronkowski had 3 back surgeries to address herniated discs but still played at a high level throughout his career. Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo all had more elaborate back surgeries but were able to continue their playing careers. I think Farley will be fine, it's not like he's playing DL or LB where he is constantly engaging with 300 pound OL or will be constantly trying to tackle 220 pound RB's. He never had back problems playing so if his medical passes then I say take a shot.

 

[Cheesebeef]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lucass...b-gronkowskis-injury-history/?sh=37aa74d62b1e
Rob Gronkowski had 3 back surgeries to address herniated discs but still played at a high level throughout his career. Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo all had more elaborate back surgeries but were able to continue their playing careers. I think Farley will be fine, it's not like he's playing DL or LB where he is constantly engaging with 300 pound OL or will be constantly trying to tackle 220 pound RB's. He never had back problems playing so if his medical passes then I say take a shot.

Great. you’re talking about the exception to the rule. AND Gronk wasn’t taken with a mid-first round pick. You can take a flier with a guy with high upside in the middle of the 2nd round. Doing so in the middle of the first is just too risky for me, especially since our entire off-season is based on guys being held together by duct-tape, pins and needles.

 

[Cheesebeef]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lucass...b-gronkowskis-injury-history/?sh=37aa74d62b1e
Rob Gronkowski had 3 back surgeries to address herniated discs but still played at a high level throughout his career. Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo all had more elaborate back surgeries but were able to continue their playing careers. I think Farley will be fine, it's not like he's playing DL or LB where he is constantly engaging with 300 pound OL or will be constantly trying to tackle 220 pound RB's. He never had back problems playing so if his medical passes then I say take a shot.

Tony Romo’s back injuries ENDED HIS CAREER prematurely when he had YEARS still left in him. Peyton Manning had two years before it caught up to him and ended his career where he looked like a shell of himself. Tiger has NEVER been the same since his back surgeries. He was DOMINANT before them and never got back to that level.

And those back injuries all happened later in their careers and those guys all saw sharp decline to their games following their back problems. you’re making my point for me.

 

[Solar7]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lucass...b-gronkowskis-injury-history/?sh=37aa74d62b1e
Rob Gronkowski had 3 back surgeries to address herniated discs but still played at a high level throughout his career. Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo all had more elaborate back surgeries but were able to continue their playing careers. I think Farley will be fine, it's not like he's playing DL or LB where he is constantly engaging with 300 pound OL or will be constantly trying to tackle 220 pound RB's. He never had back problems playing so if his medical passes then I say take a shot.

Outside of Gronk, none of them had to initiate contact or do much besides get in position and throw/hit a ball.

 

[speedy]

I like the idea of Collins. I remember (think it was 13 or 14?) we had both Dansby and Washington at ILB.

those 2 were fun to watch and amongst the most dominant in the league.

I wouldn’t be disappointed if we traded back into the mid-20’s, picked up a 2nd, and drafted Collins. Him and IS could be something spectacular...

 

[Gandhi]

THE CARDINALS are proof against this need v. BPA "common sense". With a first round QB on the team and only one year under his belt, the Cardinals went BPA with Kyler Murray. And before you try to throw any "Rosen had no value" garbage, we still got a 2nd round pick for him after drafting his replacement, so save that crap. That was a BPA pick all the way. We saw a possibility for an upgrade at a position we had just thought we filled the previous season and said screw it. Yes, we NEEDED a DE desperately, but we took the player with a ton more upside.

You don’t truly think they would have drafted Murray if Kingsbury were not at the team, do you? It did not matter if it was the best player on the board or not.

 

[ActingWild]

To the OP, between Farley and Newsome, I want Farley.

 

[oaken1]

I’m with cheese

I guess if you never really had a back issue at a young age you just don’t know

they don’t get better.... ever.

they get worse. You get periods of time where they don’t affect you too much... but then BAM!!!
You throw a disc sneezing... or coughing... or laughing.... or taking a poo....

when I was 19 I was 270 and ran a 4.56
I hurt my back because I didn’t warm up properly in the gym and never ran below a 4.8 again
I would have moments of explosiveness.... could dunk once in a while.... but it was never on demand like it was before I got hurt

no way would I pick Farley in the first round,,, and with newsome you have to plan for him to miss half the season every year....

neither guy is worth a first round pick
If we are dead set that it just has to be a cb at 16 then make the reach and draft Surtain a round early.... in the long run we will get better value from the pick that way

but since that’s crazy....

skip cb in round one and draft a different position

Harris? Most of you hate
Vera-Tucker?
Collins?

there are lots of guys who won’t make us regret our first round pick.... why focus on two guys that will?

 

[BritCard]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lucass...b-gronkowskis-injury-history/?sh=37aa74d62b1e
Rob Gronkowski had 3 back surgeries to address herniated discs but still played at a high level throughout his career. Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo all had more elaborate back surgeries but were able to continue their playing careers. I think Farley will be fine, it's not like he's playing DL or LB where he is constantly engaging with 300 pound OL or will be constantly trying to tackle 220 pound RB's. He never had back problems playing so if his medical passes then I say take a shot.

Gronk retired at 30 due to the wear on his body. He missed all pre season and 1st 6 games with his back in 2013. Then tore his ACL off the back of it. In 2016 he did his back again and missed 9 games. And he started in the NFL at 21. Farley is 24 already.

Tiger had his back surgery and has been constantly injured since. Also been garbage.

Manning had back surgery in his 14th season and the Colts cut him right after.

Tony Romo had back surgery in 2014 and played one more year before having to retire early.

Hardly a glowing reference.

 

[overseascardfan]

Tony Romo’s back injuries ENDED HIS CAREER prematurely when he had YEARS still left in him. Peyton Manning had two years before it caught up to him and ended his career where he looked like a shell of himself. Tiger has NEVER been the same since his back surgeries. He was DOMINANT before them and never got back to that level.

And those back injuries all happened later in their careers and those guys all saw sharp decline to their games following their back problems. you’re making my point for me.

Prematurely? He played 14 years at a position where the objective for 250+ pound LB / DL is to slam you to the ground. You just said al of them were old which makes my point, when you are younger you're body heals at a faster rate than when you get older. Farley is 21 and has had a year off from football contact, not sure how much he was trying to deadlift but maybe he over did it.

https://www.brainspinesurgery.com/j...suredly increased over the past several years.

A big reason for players having re-occurring issues with back is they come back too soon and don't give themselves enough time to fully heal. Some of you may have dealt with a herniated disc so you have some insight but if medical doctors clear him then I don't see any problem. If issue was a problem that was a real concern then Farley should consider a different career but he is not.

 

[BritCard]

Prematurely? He played 14 years at a position where the objective for 250+ pound LB / DL is to slam you to the ground. You just said al of them were old which makes my point, when you are younger you're body heals at a faster rate than when you get older. Farley is 21 and has had a year off from football contact, not sure how much he was trying to deadlift but maybe he over did it.

https://www.brainspinesurgery.com/j-j-watt-and-how-herniated-discs-can-reoccur/#:~:text=in the spine.-,J.J.,surgery for a herniated disc.&text=That number has assuredly increased over the past several years.

Farley is 23 when the season starts. He's the oldest of the top CB's in the draft.

A big reason for players having re-occurring issues with back is they come back too soon and don't give themselves enough time to fully heal. Some of you may have dealt with a herniated disc so you have some insight but if medical doctors clear him then I don't see any problem. If issue was a problem that was a real concern then Farley should consider a different career but he is not.

He just had a year off and then had to have back surgery. How's that coming back too soon?

Why would he consider a different career when he could pick up a multi million pound fully guaranteed contract that would set him up for life?

 

[DVontel]

Yea, I can’t take the risk on Farley.

Newsome has his durability concerns obviously, but they’re not nearly as severe as Farley.

I also don’t think Horn, Surtain, or Farley is that much better than Newsome.


It’s Newsome easily for me now.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No. I saw it.

My point was he can't give Covid to his dad away at college. You know, with not being at home.

He can if he opts out and is living with him while training every day.

Except these kids were going home and spreading it among their communities.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yea, I can’t take the risk on Farley.

Newsome has his durability concerns obviously, but they’re not nearly as severe as Farley.

I also don’t think Horn, Surtain, or Farley is that much better than Newsome.


It’s Newsome easily for me now.

I would not take either of them at 16 but to be fair, my list at 16 is like 8 guys long. 3 OL, 3 WR (one may be listed as a TE), and 2 CBs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My issue with Farley is not that he opted out, but that he waited until March to have the surgery when it obviously was an issue for months. You choose not to play, go ahead and have the surgery in November instead of March. Am I missing something here or does that seem a little fishy?

Good surgeon will always advise not to cut if you don’t have to. Probably waiting to see if it was completely necessary and this was the last opp before rehab would cut into the season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not at all. It is based on history and common sense.

Lol. Good evidence.

 

[BritCard]

Except these kids were going home and spreading it among their communities.

He doesn't have to though does he?

He has the option of saying "This is a big year for me Dad. I need to prove I'm not an injury risk. I need more than 2 years of tape at CB. So I'm going to play and stay at school for 5 months and not come home".

Colleges will let athletes stay in dorms over breaks. Especially last year. So he could have done that. So it feels like an excuse to me. And considering he made the decision after turning up for camp and that he just had back surgery it feels more than possible he may have used the whole thing as cover for a lingering injury concern no?