Should Pendy stay or should he go?

[LukesDad88]

How do we afford this? runsandducksforcover - Trade Q for the cap relief and extra picks.[/quote]

Do you guys really need the cap relief, though? I thought you had forty to play with?

 

[WildBB]

Yes and No. Pendy IMHO is not the issue. We need more pass rushing talent and better cover DB's in the nickle and dime packages.

The D needs to get more 3 & outs. The Steeler O had several long time consuming drives. This puts a lot of pressure on our O to make every drive count.

Defense wins championships, we have all heard that before. The Steelers have the best Defense this year and won the SB. Our D was very good in the playoffs with stopping the run and take aways. Our pass D was not very good in several of the games and that is why we came up seconds and inches short of the title.

I truly believe the Offense can take a step backwards in 09 as long as the Defense takes 2 steps forward.
Get two pass rushers. A DE and OLB that bring consistent pressure.
Another cover CB.
Ware and or Fransisco need to be upgraded.
Get Dansby re-signed. He is the glue that holds this D together.
A. Smith is a spark plug and if possible kept as well.
A Dub is an amazing blitzer and a bit of a liability in coverage. Just another reason to upgrade the back up safety positions so that A Dub can be A Dub.

How do we afford this? runsandducksforcover - Trade Q for the cap relief and extra picks.

Trade Quan is the popular sentiment here at the moment. And it would be hard turning down a 1st in the 20's area and a 3rd, although the 3rd might turn into a 4th. Just remember that Warner and Fitz will have their say in the matter and will be a factor in re-signing Fitz in 2011. Don't underestimate Quans leadership value to this team. Wilson is more quiet overall but a leader. Anquan brings alot to the table for this team.

All that being said, this team needs another pass rusher OLB on the outside. Maybe thats Dansby as this team, as you said re-signs Antonio Smith and starts to implement more of a 4-3 base to use their personell better. In this base Adrian Wilson could be implemented as an OLB possibly. He would be a big upgrade in coverage if the opposing team chooses to open up early in the offensive sequence.

Watson and Dockett on the inside or Watson and Robinson with Dockett and Smith on the outside. Rotate in Branch, Campbell and Iewabema and you have a pretty good rotation there. Then on obvious passing third downs you go to the 3-4 man front using B-Train and Okeafor/LaBoy (or someone else) on the outside and Dansby and Wilson in the middle.

A coverage Ball Hawking Free Saftey is also a necessary upgrade obviously in order for this D to take the next step as Rolle would slide to more of a SS slot in the 3-4 AND possibly in the 4-3.

Maybe Rolle as strickly a nickle back, I was thinking but he makes too much for such a (rolle).

In any reguard, this team needs to find a Cover FS, a RB, an OL for depth, and another OLB and possibly another CB. That's five NEEDS that really can't be covered through the draft.

So once the holes are fixed the D should continue to flourish. I think that Whiz believes that Pendy is part of the solution and not the problem here.

 

[WildBB]

How do we afford this? runsandducksforcover - Trade Q for the cap relief and extra picks.

Do you guys really need the cap relief, though? I thought you had forty to play with?[/QUOTE]

About 20 mil. AFTER you sign Warner and give Dansby his 10M as franchised player or less if you sign him long term.

THEN with that 20 they have to re-do A. Wilson and Anquan's deals and possibly Dockett as well.

Then there's the matter of Gandy. You get the picture.

 

[Cardiac]

Do you guys really need the cap relief, though? I thought you had forty to play with?

About 20 mil. AFTER you sign Warner and give Dansby his 10M as franchised player or less if you sign him long term.

THEN with that 20 they have to re-do A. Wilson and Anquan's deals and possibly Dockett as well.

Then there's the matter of Gandy. You get the picture.[/QUOTE]

What he said. Plus anyone that thinks Q will or should play out his existing contract is kidding themselves. Q deserves a raise and won't be the good soldier he was this year. So if Q isn't traded add more money against the cap, if not this year then in the next several years.

 

[Duckjake]

Other than the Buffalo game, has the defense really held a lead down to close out the game? Dallas, Washington, it seems like no lead was ever safe.

They'd make some great play to get the team back in the game and then go soft. Very nerve racking, predictable and frustrating.

Exactly my problem with the defense. The Cards couldn't hold an 18 point lead against the Eagles at home in the NFC Championship.

They didn't do anything different in the playoffs than they did during the regular season other than the mass of turnovers in the Carolina game.

The Cards run defense was solid all year. Pendy's defense is break but don't bend, continually giving up huge pass plays and critical third and long conversions while stuffing the other teams offense for most of the rest of the
game. Its been that way every year he's been the DC.

As for the LeBeau reference, teams weren't continually coming from behind or converting 3rd and 17s or throwing 62 yard TD passes against the Steelers for the last 3 years.

That is something only the unbelievable offense of the Arizona Cardinals could do to them. 407 yards when only one other team went over 300 all season.

 

[WildBB]

Exactly my problem with the defense. The Cards couldn't hold an 18 point lead against the Eagles at home in the NFC Championship.

Did Pendy let DeShaun Jackson beat your fastest player deep? Likewise did he let Curtis loose on a 70 yard scamper like Fitzgerals burned the Pittsburgh secondary on.

Look the Eagles were desperate and they threw it all out there. We would have done the same. Where was Warner and Co. at all this time? They were stalled, and that also helped put the pressure on the D. The offense wasn't doing crap either and let Philly back into it. It goes hand in hand. It's easy to point your finger, but football is alot about BIG MO!

 

[Duckjake]

Did Pendy let DeShaun Jackson beat your fastest player deep? Likewise did he let Curtis loose on a 70 yard scamper like Fitzgerals burned the Pittsburgh secondary on.

Look the Eagles were desperate and they threw it all out there. We would have done the same. Where was Warner and Co. at all this time? They were stalled, and that also helped put the pressure on the D. The offense wasn't doing crap either and let Philly back into it. It goes hand in hand. It's easy to point your finger, but football is alot about BIG MO!

Every player and teams fails occasionally. Like I pointed out we put 407 yards on a Pittsburgh defense whose highest total offense allowed the rest of the season was 322 yards and had 17 games where they allowed less than 300. Is anyone saying they have a bad defense because we ran up that total, no because it didn't happen consistently.

When it happens consistently either the team doesn't have any talent or the coaching is not up to par. It has been consistent for quite some time with the Cardinals and we are not lacking in talent anymore. So to me it is the coaching.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Every player and teams fails occasionally. Like I pointed out we put 407 yards on a Pittsburgh defense whose highest total offense allowed the rest of the season was 322 yards and had 17 games where they allowed less than 300. Is anyone saying they have a bad defense because we ran up that total, no because it didn't happen consistently.

When it happens consistently either the team doesn't have any talent or the coaching is not up to par. It has been consistent for quite some time with the Cardinals and we are not lacking in talent anymore. So to me it is the coaching.

 

[JeffGollin]

Here's a Bright Idea...

Replace Pendergast with...Mike Ditka.

(Whenever a bunch of fans, in the aftermath of a tough loss, start blowing smoke or grasp at straws, the first thing they look to do is find someone to blame. And, more often than not, someone will raise his head from the 6th glass of beer he's crying in and suggest: "Why not bring in Mike Ditka?").

It's kind of like sitting on the beach between jobs with other unemployed or underemployed people and "decide you're going to open a new theme restaurant."

Clancy Pendergast is a perfectly good DC. He didn't fall down attempting to cover Santonio Holmes. He wasn't one of the three guys covering Holmes who had a shot at breaking up that final TD pass. He didn't throw the interception to Harrison or fail to tackle him on the sideline. All the man did was to craft the defense that helped get us to within a couple of inches of being Best in the NFL.

I was just noodling around with the Cardinal roster and, among other things, what we might do to upgrade the defense. What struck me was the number of times I'd say: "Gee we really could use another dominant DT who could blow up plays in the backfield. Or a real beast at LDE. Or a dominating "every down" ILB or OLB - but if we can't, we can always depend on Pendergast to scheme his way around that deficiency.

He's been able to take a bunch of pretty agile, mobile and hostile athletes and "do it with mirrors" to utilize them in creative ways that would overcome structural personnel weaknesses and usually get the job done.

If there's one personnel area Pendy couldn't scheme his way around, it might be personnel deficiencies in our defensive backfield (where Francisco tended to be a step too slow and Ralph Brown's jumping ability tended to be a few inches too low). But does the problem lie with Pendergast or Austin? And don't you have to give them both credit for the development of DRC and the creative use of Antrel Rolle?

Note - Everyone just loves Dick LeBeau. Yet Warner found Fitz on a crossing route, and Fitz split the Cover 2 safeties and outran everyone to score the TD. Kurt, Todd and Fitz sure outsmarted LeBeau on that one. But does that mean that LeBeau's a rotten DC?

No. And neither is Clancy Pendergast.

 

[Pariah]

Clancy Pendergast is a perfectly good DC. He didn't fall down attempting to cover Santonio Holmes. He wasn't one of the three guys covering Holmes who had a shot at breaking up the pass. He didn't throw the interception to Harrison or fail to tackle him on the sideline. All the man did was to craft the defense that helped get us to within a couple of inches of being Top Dawgs.

Here, here.

Getting rid of Penderghast would be a mistake, IMO.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Replace Pendergast with...Mike Ditka.

(Whenever a bunch of fans, in the aftermath of a tough loss, start blowing smoke or grasp at straws, the first thing they look to do is find someone to blame. And, more often than not, someone will raise his head from the 6th glass of beer he's crying in and suggest: "Why not bring in Mike Ditka?").

It's kind of like sitting on the beach between jobs with other unemployed or underemployed people and "decide you're going to open a new theme restaurant."

Clancy Pendergast is a perfectly good DC. He didn't fall down attempting to cover Santonio Holmes. He wasn't one of the three guys covering Holmes who had a shot at breaking up that final TD pass. He didn't throw the interception to Harrison or fail to tackle him on the sideline. All the man did was to craft the defense that helped get us to within a couple of inches of being Best in the NFL.

I was just noodling around with the Cardinal roster and, among other things, what we might do to upgrade the defense. What struck me was the number of times I'd say: "Gee we really could use another dominant DT who could blow up plays in the backfield. Or a real beast at LDE. Or a dominating "every down" ILB or OLB - but if we can't, we can always depend on Pendergast to scheme his way around that deficiency.

He's been able to take a bunch of pretty agile, mobile and hostile athletes and "do it with mirrors" to utilize them in creative ways that would overcome structural personnel weaknesses and usually get the job done.

If there's one personnel area Pendy couldn't scheme his way around, it might be personnel deficiencies in our defensive backfield (where Francisco tended to be a step too slow and Ralph Brown's jumping ability tended to be a few inches too low). But does the problem lie with Pendergast or Austin? And don't you have to give them both credit for the development of DRC and the creative use of Antrel Rolle?

Note - Everyone just loves Dick LeBeau. Yet Warner found Fitz on a crossing route, and Fitz split the Cover 2 safeties and outran everyone to score the TD. Kurt, Todd and Fitz sure outsmarted LeBeau on that one. But does that mean that LeBeau's a rotten DC?

No. And neither is Clancy Pendergast.

 

[WildBB]

Every player and teams fails occasionally. Like I pointed out we put 407 yards on a Pittsburgh defense whose highest total offense allowed the rest of the season was 322 yards and had 17 games where they allowed less than 300. Is anyone saying they have a bad defense because we ran up that total, no because it didn't happen consistently.

When it happens consistently either the team doesn't have any talent or the coaching is not up to par. It has been consistent for quite some time with the Cardinals and we are not lacking in talent anymore. So to me it is the coaching.

I'm not trying to justify Pendy's status as DC. I'm just saying like the rest of the team, they made strides and played solidly overall when it really mattered. Can it improve more? Definately! But as I was talking to someone here at work there are extenuating circumstances. Yes we were all pissed at the D many times during the lregular season, but starting out 7-3 and sweeping the division isn't all the offense's accomplishment. Then the harder part of the schedule started and they were exposed even more but sometimes it was motivational and sometimes conditions. Not trying to make excuses but this TEAM laid some eggs this year.

Another factor was DRC. He wasn't even in the lineup but as a nickle until about the 9th week. Until then it was Hood and Greene. It took awhile to get him up to speed. Even then there was alot of fine tuning that needed to be done. And it's still not a finished product, by any means. It's close but not completed. Give him ALL the parts to work with and then, sure lay into him, but he's not the main issue and I think most of the players would tell you the same.

All the D coaches have to report and game prepare and submit that to the co-ordinator who then tunes it and submits it to the HC. Everything is gone over and agreed upon and it's up to the coaches and the players to make solid adjustments and play and implement the system to it's strengths and overcoming the weaknesses which the other team is attempting to exploit. Overall they did OK.

I know you and many want better and so do I. I just think that all the pieces were'nt in place. Now we're a little closer. I don't think you change at this point. Maybe another secondary coach and LB's coach, but Pendy should stay IMO. We gave Grimm the benifit of the doubt and that unit has had some issues too , even while there is very good talent on that side of the ball and really good offensive minds setting it up.

If Pendy does get replaced it better be by an elite tachtician. And he's got to have a repore with Whiz - or it won't work!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Why can't we have a Vbookie on this?

Will Pendy be the DC come September?

 

[D-Dogg]

Jeff, the Cards have had the same defensive problems for years...including being prone to big plays that kill them, and soft, deep zones with any lead. Not to mention, Francisco shouldn't have BEEN in the picture to fall down and cause a 40 yard gain.

Our defense is talented, but not well coached.

Pendy can scheme very well, I'll give him that. But he also can't adjust very well either.

He's just not a good DC. I do NOT credit him with having the players improve their tackling or gap discipline that they did in the Seattle game and the playoffs. That came from the top, IMO. And that's one of the biggest issues I have had with Pendy. There were glaring problems of discipline and tackling that NEVER got fixed...even when they were acknowledged as a problem. We've lost so many games because of these things, even this season. A good DC would have been up in their crap, fixing those problems from day one, not letting them fester and allow players to freelance.

When push came to shove, Whis dropped the hammer (according to players themselves) and almost by magic our tackling was more sure, and players stayed home, kept their lanes and voila, our defense was more consistent. We still allowed too many points, but stayed more sound overall. That should have happened a couple few years ago.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Jeff, the Cards have had the same defensive problems for years...including being prone to big plays that kill them, and soft, deep zones with any lead. Not to mention, Francisco shouldn't have BEEN in the picture to fall down and cause a 40 yard gain.

Our defense is talented, but not well coached.

Pendy can scheme very well, I'll give him that. But he also can't adjust very well either.

He's just not a good DC. I do NOT credit him with having the players improve their tackling or gap discipline that they did in the Seattle game and the playoffs. That came from the top, IMO. And that's one of the biggest issues I have had with Pendy. There were glaring problems of discipline and tackling that NEVER got fixed...even when they were acknowledged as a problem. We've lost so many games because of these things, even this season. A good DC would have been up in their crap, fixing those problems from day one, not letting them fester and allow players to freelance.

When push came to shove, Whis dropped the hammer (according to players themselves) and almost by magic our tackling was more sure, and players stayed home, kept their lanes and voila, our defense was more consistent. We still allowed too many points, but stayed more sound overall. That should have happened a couple few years ago.

You are right. The HC decides when the players put on the pads in practice and go through the fundamentals, including tackling drills... Not the OC or the DC.

As such... one can argue that, because Whis was taking it easy on the guys in practice prior to the NE game... he was responsible for the bad habits and poor play.

In the end.... I'm prepared to v-bet a wad that Pendy is our DC come September....

 

[Duckjake]

I know you and many want better and so do I. I just think that all the pieces were'nt in place. Now we're a little closer. I don't think you change at this point. Maybe another secondary coach and LB's coach, but Pendy should stay IMO. We gave Grimm the benifit of the doubt and that unit has had some issues too , even while there is very good talent on that side of the ball and really good offensive minds setting it up.

If Pendergast had come in with Whisenhunt I could agree with you and Jeff. But he didn't. He's been the DC for 5 years and the results are the same every year. Break but don't bend.

 

[WildBB]

If Pendergast had come in with Whisenhunt I could agree with you and Jeff. But he didn't. He's been the DC for 5 years and the results are the same every year. Break but don't bend.

He's hardly had the personell to work with. Stalwarts now on the D were rookies back then. Wilson is the only one with more than 5 yrs. on this D. Look at teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh (they've both also had rough years prior), but they have had continuity on their D. It really matters.

 

[red desert]

I say go. Good lord should he go. I would love to see what this defensive talent could do with a real coach back there. His soft play at the end of games and the "bend, bend, bend but don't break..aw, why'd ya break" style he defaults to so often is horrid.

Just wanted a heatcheck on where the board stood on Pendy now.

yes, there will be multiple options for my favorite answer.

Escort him to the edge of town and slap his slow-footed horse on the ass to get him on his way.

 

[Duckjake]

He's hardly had the personnel to work with. Stalwarts now on the D were rookies back then. Wilson is the only one with more than 5 yrs. on this D. Look at teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh (they've both also had rough years prior), but they have had continuity on their D. It really matters.

Well that's my point. We've had some lack of continuity of personnel on the D but get the same results. Good players, bad players, rookies, or veterans, poor HC, good HC, it hasn't made much of a difference.

Its even more damning when most of the core of the defense have played for Pendy for 4 years or more and nothing's changed. Wilson, Dockett, Hayes,Rolle, Berry, Okeafor, Smith and Dansby.

 

[D-Dogg]

You are right. The HC decides when the players put on the pads in practice and go through the fundamentals, including tackling drills... Not the OC or the DC.

As such... one can argue that, because Whis was taking it easy on the guys in practice prior to the NE game... he was responsible for the bad habits and poor play.

In the end.... I'm prepared to v-bet a wad that Pendy is our DC come September....

No, the DC can get his guys to practice fundamentals and discipline. Which he is supposed to do. When the HC has to tear asses to fix things, that's not a sign the DC is getting it done.

 

[WildBB]

Well that's my point. We've had some lack of continuity of personnel on the D but get the same results. Good players, bad players, rookies, or veterans, poor HC, good HC, it hasn't made much of a difference.

Its even more damning when most of the core of the defense have played for Pendy for 4 years or more and nothing's changed. Wilson, Dockett, Hayes,Rolle, Berry, Okeafor, Smith and Dansby.

Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. You'd have a better point IF we didn't just have all those turnovers and shut down multiple premier backs in this league. I don't think the D has been credited enough for it's successes, only it's failures, which was pointed out, less than that illustrius Pitt D. And Pitt had 2 weeks to break this D apart.

Like I said , I agree there have been plenty of bumps on the road. But to bring in a rookie CB and help bring him up to speed fast, with the help of the entire secondary, and a new starting SS this D has made some big strides. The continuity issue is very close to being a non-issue and we're seeing THAT in a bigger way MORE CONSISTENTLY.

Another coverage ball hawk and I'd say we're there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As for the LeBeau reference, teams weren't continually coming from behind or converting 3rd and 17s or throwing 62 yard TD passes against the Steelers for the last 3 years.

That is something only the unbelievable offense of the Arizona Cardinals could do to them. 407 yards when only one other team went over 300 all season.

exactly, you cannot compare lebeau or pendy being fired based on ONE GAME (superbowl). look at all the data. lebeau has a stack of top 3 defensive finishes to his resume - pendy? fech.

the one thing this defense did during the playoff stretch was create big plays. turnovers. but i attribute that type of individual play to individual talent, because more often than not it was a terrific individual play that causes the big play.

the defensive strategy is what is responsible for the bigger picture. scoring. and on that count our defense was bad, and continued to be somewhat lousy through the playoffs. we gave up 20+ pts to both the falcons and eagles. and let's not get started talking regular season.

so turnovers are great, but those will keep coming based on talent. the defense under pendy has been atrocious from a strategy and scoring perspective.

upgrade please.

 

[anks106]

He dials up excellent blitzes, but I hate watching him dial up

1) The 3 man rush
2) The prevent
3) Corners 10 yards off

Mostly retread stuff, but I'd love to see us get a new DC

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Note - Everyone just loves Dick LeBeau. Yet Warner found Fitz on a crossing route, and Fitz split the Cover 2 safeties and outran everyone to score the TD. Kurt, Todd and Fitz sure outsmarted LeBeau on that one. But does that mean that LeBeau's a rotten DC?

No. And neither is Clancy Pendergast.

okay, this madness has to stop. you cannot compare two coaches' experience in A SINGLE GAME. look at lebeau's history. look at pendy's history. now stop typing this insanity.

 

[red desert]

Jeff, you point out that three guys were around santonio, but i think the more salient point is that Big Ben had all feakin' day to find his third option on that play. Typical of Pendy.

Our DC has to put his players in a position to make plays. He has fallen short more often than not, IMO.