Should the Suns consider bringing back Mike D'Antoni?

[Mainstreet]

I know this is controversial subject but it is a slow day, so I thought I would bring it up. The Suns seem like a lethargic bunch with not much passion for defense or rebounding. Actually the Suns are a finesse team and the players they have are made for running. So if the Suns are going to continue their finesse ways and not focus on defense, why not bring back the king of this style of basketball and run SSOL. I think Dragic could run it.

Again this thread is motivated to get some discussion going with some tongue-in-cheek. So take it for what it is worth.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a quote from a USA Today article written by Paul Coro dated 11-29-12.

"I shouldn't have gone to New York," D'Antoni said. "I should have stuck in there and battled. You don't get to coach somebody like (Nash) too many times. It's pretty sacred and you need to take care of it. I didn't."

It had been a build-up of circumstances from the rising pressure from fans and the franchise to deliver a championship, some of which was self-induced. D'Antoni's teams averaged 58 wins over four seasons, the first two of which were Western Conference finals teams. With the Knicks, he went 121-167.

I do not think the Knicks and Lakers supplied the right conditions to play SSOL.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2012/11/29/mike-dantoni-regrets-suns-knicks/1734117/

 

[SirStefan32]

Problem with D'Antoni is that Nash made his system work. I think we've seen enough of Nashless D'Antoni now to conclude that with certainty.

This isn't a knock on Dragic, but Nash is the only player who could make D'Antoni's system work. If only he were smart enough to play more than 7-8 players and actually utilize Kurt Thomas back in the day.

Another thing to mention is that there's no coach in the world who could take this roster and turn them into a contender. I don't think Hornacek is a particularly good coach, but this team's struggles go far beyond their head coach.

 

[Mainstreet]

Problem with D'Antoni is that Nash made his system work. I think we've seen enough of Nashless D'Antoni now to conclude that with certainty.

This isn't a knock on Dragic, but Nash is the only player who could make D'Antoni's system work. If only he were smart enough to play more than 7-8 players and actually utilize Kurt Thomas back in the day.

Another thing to mention is that there's no coach in the world who could take this roster and turn them into a contender. I don't think Hornacek is a particularly good coach, but this team's struggles go far beyond their head coach.

If DA has expanded his horizon in regard to more guidance from a GM, situational defense and a longer bench, I think SSOL could fly again. Certainly Dragic does not have the same skills as Steve Nash but I think he could run a version of it. I don't think NY had the right PGs to run it and LA was committed to making it work with Dwight Howard. I especially was dumbfounded when DA went to the Lakers to coach. This was a bad fit from the git-go.

Although the Suns current roster are not contenders in any shape or form, DA might get the best out of this roster. Obviously McDonough and Sarver would have to be committed to making it work as well as DA.

 

[Covert Rain]

Hell no. Hell no. Hell no. Hell no.

Did I mention....hell no?

Besides, I think Nash had as much to do with the success as ANYTHING Pringles did. I think his record post Nash proves that. In fact, I think it exposes Pringles a bit in that any coach even halfway competent could have accomplished much with Nash.

If someone like POP had been our coach during those years? Wow.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hell no. Hell no. Hell no. Hell no.

Did I mention....hell no?

Besides, I think Nash had as much to do with the success as ANYTHING Pringles did. I think his record post Nash proves that. In fact, I think it exposes Pringles a bit in that any coach even halfway competent could have accomplished much with Nash.

If someone like POP had been our coach during those years? Wow.

Gregg Popovich, Doc Rivers and Tom Thibodeau would be nice options but I don't think it is going to happen.

 

[SirStefan32]

Suns need to stop trying to be "cool", "trendy", and they need to stop looking for shortcuts and quick fixes.

 

[BC867]

All of the above -- except the parts about bringing D'Antoni back.

He'd be right back where he left off . . . except without Steve Nash.

Develop young players? He told us it's not his job.

Defense? It was a joke to him.

Coach for the present AND future? Not with a rotation of 7.5 players.

Let's see. Is D'Antoni better to coach a gimmick team than Hornacek is proving to be?

What does it matter. Let's build for the future. The sooner the better.

 

[elindholm]

A trillion times No. This franchise needs to give up on being "exciting" or pushing for the eighth seed, and instead implement a culture of discipline and accountability on both sides of the ball. D'Antoni is the worst possible choice for that mission.

 

[95pro]

The lakers tried it and look what happened. We don't have a starting pick n roll center. Our pf isn't a floor runner like Amare was. We have no shooters. And most importantly no pure pg.

 

[Mainstreet]

A trillion times No. This franchise needs to give up on being "exciting" or pushing for the eighth seed, and instead implement a culture of discipline and accountability on both sides of the ball. D'Antoni is the worst possible choice for that mission.

I'm hoping Jeff Hornacek can get the job done as I'm a huge fan but I do not see discipline and accountability watching the Suns. Maybe making a trade or changing assistant coaches may be needed. A couple of things the Suns should be able to improve now is cutting down on turnovers and playing better team defense. The word is out on the way to beat the Suns, just take the ball inside.

As far as D'Antoni is concerned, if the Suns are not going to play defense, DA is not a bad choice to coach a running team such as the Suns. I guess I can't forget the good memories if the Suns are trying to play this style of basketball which seemingly they are.

 

[Mainstreet]

The lakers tried it and look what happened. We don't have a starting pick n roll center. Our pf isn't a floor runner like Amare was. We have no shooters. And most importantly no pure pg.

I knew Dwight Howard did not have an outside shot, then add Kobe (who wants the the ball) and that was enough for me to know DA was unlikely to succeed with the Lakers.

Perhaps the Suns could learn something from Steve Kerr who I have been critical in the past. See link to RealGM below.

Kerr picked up a lot about how to set a practice vibe from Carroll.

"We talked a lot about just kind of the atmosphere around a team and how you're going to approach the daily routine," Kerr said.

"To me, the X's and O's ... they're an important part of coaching but a relatively small part. Eighty percent of it is just relationships and atmosphere, what your daily routine and culture is.

"Are players engaged, are they enjoying themselves, are they competing? All those principals he talked about, and we talked about different ideas of ways to make those things come to life. To me, that's his gift."

Kerr saw how Carroll's players reacted when the Seahawks played music throughout practice, so he installed speakers at the Warriors site, and there is now music playing through most Warriors sessions.

"It's a staple for the Seahawks -- it's really uplifting and it's fun," said Kerr, who has piped in an array of rap and rock.

I'm willing to recommend some music for the Suns workouts.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ks-Practice-Atmosphere-After-Visiting-Carroll

 

[95pro]

maybe the whole brothers things takes away from team chemistry. zoran and goran go together this way, markieff and marcus go another way.

 

[Neo]

No. Niet, Nei, Non, Não,

 

[BC867]

maybe the whole brothers things takes away from team chemistry. zoran and goran go together this way, markieff and marcus go another way.

That is a good point. Automatic cliques. And, as has been pointed out before, the coach having to consider two players' reactions when dealing with one of the brothers.

It seems that every situation that has come up lately deals with gimmicks rather than achieving the best today while laying the groundwork for the future.

If the Suns' gimmicks worked, we wouldn't be talking about them --

3 of our 4 best players sharing one position.

No continuity -- the hot man plays -- at every position.

Most of the team afraid to make a mistake, knowing that there are two other players sharing their position.

 

[elindholm]

I'm hoping Jeff Hornacek can get the job done as I'm a huge fan but I do not see discipline and accountability watching the Suns.

But you were asking about D'Antoni, not Hornacek. If you want to make a case for cutting Hornacek loose right away, go ahead, but D'Antoni can't possibly be an improvement.

As far as D'Antoni is concerned, if the Suns are not going to play defense, DA is not a bad choice to coach a running team such as the Suns.

Compare this roster to the SSOL teams and tell me whether you really believe there's a chance in hell that the present group could achieve the same level of result. The SSOL teams had multiple transcendent scorers on them. The current Suns have Dragic and role players.

 

[Covert Rain]

A trillion times No. This franchise needs to give up on being "exciting" or pushing for the eighth seed, and instead implement a culture of discipline and accountability on both sides of the ball. D'Antoni is the worst possible choice for that mission.

+100

 

[sunsfan88]

Jeff Hornacek IS D'Antoni 2.0.

I think that's what Mainstreet's main point is. If were going to run a system like D'Antoni's, why not have D'Antoni himself coach it?

I don't think he actually wants D'Antoni back in PHX but he brings up a great point about Hornacek.

 

[SirStefan32]

Compare this roster to the SSOL teams and tell me whether you really believe there's a chance in hell that the present group could achieve the same level of result. The SSOL teams had multiple transcendent scorers on them. The current Suns have Dragic and role players.

This is a great point that people seem to be missing. It looks like people are forgetting just how amazing Nash, Stoudemire, and Marion were, and just how good the role-players like Q, JJ, Diaw, T. Thomas, Barbosa, etc really were.

Suns' current roster is just terrible compared to SSOL rosters. There isn't one player on the roster that would have gotten playing time during the Nash/ Stoudemire/ Marion era, with possible exception of Dragic and Green (as very minor role-players) and Tucker (as a possible backup to Bell for a few minutes a game.)

Hell, you could put MVP Nash on the current roster and they wouldn't make playoffs. Nobody can play pick and roll, outside of guards, nobody can really run the floor as well as Marion and Stoudemire ran the floor, and outside of Marcus and PJ, nobody can really shoot the three very well, and to add insult to injury, the ones who can shoot are not particularly athletic. This team is so bad that even MVSteve couldn't get them anywhere.

 

[SirStefan32]

Jeff Hornacek IS D'Antoni 2.0.

I think that's what Mainstreet's main point is. If were going to run a system like D'Antoni's, why not have D'Antoni himself coach it?

I don't think he actually wants D'Antoni back in PHX but he brings up a great point about Hornacek.

He is not D'Antoni 2.0, and we are not running a D'Antoni system. Not playing defense does not mean they are playing SSOL- it just means they aren't playing defense.

There is plenty of blame to be placed on Hornacek, but he is NOT Mike D'Antoni. Frankly, you could hand this roster to Pop and Thibs and they wouldn't be able to fix it. Eric put it best- the Suns are Dragic and a bunch of role-players, and Dragic is likely going to bail next year. McD is the one that has to work some magic now, not Hornacek.

 

[JustWinBaby]

This is a great point that people seem to be missing. It looks like people are forgetting just how amazing Nash, Stoudemire, and Marion were, and just how good the role-players like Q, JJ, Diaw, T. Thomas, Barbosa, etc really were.

Suns' current roster is just terrible compared to SSOL rosters. There isn't one player on the roster that would have gotten playing time during the Nash/ Stoudemire/ Marion era, with possible exception of Dragic and Green (as very minor role-players) and Tucker (as a possible backup to Bell for a few minutes a game.)

Hell, you could put MVP Nash on the current roster and they wouldn't make playoffs. Nobody can play pick and roll, outside of guards, nobody can really run the floor as well as Marion and Stoudemire ran the floor, and outside of Marcus and PJ, nobody can really shoot the three very well, and to add insult to injury, the ones who can shoot are not particularly athletic. This team is so bad that even MVSteve couldn't get them anywhere.

Certainly Steve Nash was a great point guard but even he struggled mightily to win games when Amare and Shawn were no longer around. I loved watching Nash and he deserves a lot of credit for our success along with Mike D'Antoni. However without Amare and Shawn neither would have accomplished much. We currently have NO ONE that comes close to what they brought, or so it appears. We virtually have no one other than our guards that take it to the hoop and get fouled. Amare was MR and 1 himself. I really cannot stand watching the Morris brother shoot jumpers all night long. Amare took jumpers to set up his drives to the hoop. The Morris brothers almost never take it to the hoop. When Markieff does we seem to be a better team.

I remember Coach Mike preaching that the ball finds energy. I believe in that concept totally.

Our current system puts players in spots to shoot a 3 pointer with very little movement to the hoop. Hornacek even mentioned that he thought the guards are not throwing the ball out enough for the open shooters. If your offense is basically designed to get the next open 3 point shot, I don't think it is going to be real effective.

I really think all 3 of our point guards are frustrated when they do go in the paint. I see Bledsoe trying to do the right thing and make a pass to either Plumlee or Len but those two guys cannot catch a cold. This is while the Morris brothers are waiting for a pass to take another jumper. That is just what our opponents want us to do.

The offense that Horanacek and company have run the last couple of years, sucks. Until he and the coaching staff make some adjustments we are not going to get better. I really do not think it is just about the players.

Hornacek deserves at least some of the blame, doesn't he?

 

[SirStefan32]

Certainly Steve Nash was a great point guard but even he struggled mightily to win games when Amare and Shawn were no longer around. I loved watching Nash and he deserves a lot of credit for our success along with Mike D'Antoni. However without Amare and Shawn neither would have accomplished much. We currently have NO ONE that comes close to what they brought, or so it appears. We virtually have no one other than our guards that take it to the hoop and get fouled. Amare was MR and 1 himself. I really cannot stand watching the Morris brother shoot jumpers all night long. Amare took jumpers to set up his drives to the hoop. The Morris brothers almost never take it to the hoop. When Markieff does we seem to be a better team.

I remember Coach Mike preaching that the ball finds energy. I believe in that concept totally.

Our current system puts players in spots to shoot a 3 pointer with very little movement to the hoop. Hornacek even mentioned that he thought the guards are not throwing the ball out enough for the open shooters. If your offense is basically designed to get the next open 3 point shot, I don't think it is going to be real effective.

I really think all 3 of our point guards are frustrated when they do go in the paint. I see Bledsoe trying to do the right thing and make a pass to either Plumlee or Len but those two guys cannot catch a cold. This is while the Morris brothers are waiting for a pass to take another jumper. That is just what our opponents want us to do.

The offense that Horanacek and company have run the last couple of years, sucks. Until he and the coaching staff make some adjustments we are not going to get better. I really do not think it is just about the players.

Hornacek deserves at least some of the blame, doesn't he?

Oh no doubt he does! Don't think for one second that I think Hornacek is a great coach. I am just pointing out that he was put in a less than ideal situation. Roster is just not very good- too many point guards, not enough rebounding or inside presence. Hornacek can do a better job assigning roles, create set plays, hold players accountable for lack of defense, etc, but even if he does everything right, he will be limited in how far his team goes due to the unbalanced roster.

 

[Mainstreet]

But you were asking about D'Antoni, not Hornacek. If you want to make a case for cutting Hornacek loose right away, go ahead, but D'Antoni can't possibly be an improvement.

I am not trying to promote bringing back D'Antoni, but I am posing the question why not? If the Suns are intent on running and not playing defense, why not run a style of offense similar to SSOL where the Suns run at every opportunity and focus on better floor spacing. It all comes down to what the Suns are trying to accomplish under Jeff Hornacek. Presently, it looks like the Suns are trying to do a lot of things but nothing in particular very well.

Compare this roster to the SSOL teams and tell me whether you really believe there's a chance in hell that the present group could achieve the same level of result. The SSOL teams had multiple transcendent scorers on them. The current Suns have Dragic and role players.

Obviously the Suns roster is not the quality roster DA had when he coached the Suns. However, rosters can be tweaked. Again it comes back to the issue if the Suns are not going to play defense, they might consider selling out to run at every opportunity. It is a lot easier to acquire shooters than quality big men. I do not see Plumlee getting many minutes under a SSOL format but I think Len might as he can shoot the ball outside. I think Dragic could be a PG in this system as he has matured with time.

IMO, the Suns as constructed, are better suited to a run SSOL than a system based upon ball control or a team capable of interior play. It's not the way I want it but it seems to be the way the Suns are playing. Presently the Suns look like an inferior version of SSOL.

 

[Mainstreet]

Jeff Hornacek IS D'Antoni 2.0.

I think that's what Mainstreet's main point is. If were going to run a system like D'Antoni's, why not have D'Antoni himself coach it?

I don't think he actually wants D'Antoni back in PHX but he brings up a great point about Hornacek.

This is what I'm saying, tongue-in-cheek, to draw attention to it. The Suns may as well bring back D'Antoni if the Suns are going to be all about offense and nothing more. At least DA knew how to crank up a good offense.

 

[sunsfan88]

He is not D'Antoni 2.0, and we are not running a D'Antoni system. Not playing defense does not mean they are playing SSOL- it just means they aren't playing defense.

There is plenty of blame to be placed on Hornacek, but he is NOT Mike D'Antoni. Frankly, you could hand this roster to Pop and Thibs and they wouldn't be able to fix it. Eric put it best- the Suns are Dragic and a bunch of role-players, and Dragic is likely going to bail next year. McD is the one that has to work some magic now, not Hornacek.

Its not just about not playing defense, we're runnin the same exact offense (pick and roll half court, rest all transition) with the difference bein that guys we have now are nowhere to close to being as good as the guys we used to have.

It would be nice if Hornacek didn't have such a gimmick offense.