Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[Hoop Head]

One thing I think a lot of people have forgotten is that the Suns brought in James Jones to be the VP of Basketball Operations. That means McD isn't the only guy making basketball decisions for the Suns anymore. I know Jones reports to McD and that McD has the final say but he's not the only one calling shots for the team like he was the last 4 years. We don't know how much control he has or what decisions he's played a role in but any moves made this season involved his input. The moves made since he's been hired have been good though and even though it's not clear how much he was involved in putting them together you'd think he signed off on them, at the least.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The way he publicly handled the Dragic and Bledsoe situations leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think he could have handled both situation without airing their grievances to the public. I think both Dragic and Bledsoe handled it poorly on their end too but someone needs to be an adult in these situations and when it comes down to it, the GM should be the adult.

Reminds me of Bob Ferguson saying that Mark Smith would make a lot less at McDonalds.

 

[Chaplin]

One thing I think a lot of people have forgotten is that the Suns brought in James Jones to be the VP of Basketball Operations. That means McD isn't the only guy making basketball decisions for the Suns anymore. I know Jones reports to McD and that McD has the final say but he's not the only one calling shots for the team like he was the last 4 years. We don't know how much control he has or what decisions he's played a role in but any moves made this season involved his input. The moves made since he's been hired have been good though and even though it's not clear how much he was involved in putting them together you'd think he signed off on them, at the least.

Jury's still out on Jones. He hasn't done anything yet, as far as I can tell. Unless he prevented McD from making a stupid move, and we'll never know that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

One thing I think a lot of people have forgotten is that the Suns brought in James Jones to be the VP of Basketball Operations. That means McD isn't the only guy making basketball decisions for the Suns anymore. I know Jones reports to McD and that McD has the final say but he's not the only one calling shots for the team like he was the last 4 years. We don't know how much control he has or what decisions he's played a role in but any moves made this season involved his input. The moves made since he's been hired have been good though and even though it's not clear how much he was involved in putting them together you'd think he signed off on them, at the least.

Don't care. We're a laughingstock and have been during the overwhelming majority of McD's entire tenure. This is a huge off-season to change that, but in order to change that we have to CHANGE THAT.

 

[pokerface]

Don't care. We're a laughingstock and have been during the overwhelming majority of McD's entire tenure. This is a huge off-season to change that, but in order to change that we have to CHANGE THAT.

Omg...cheese... sweet baby cheezitz. Wtf can we do?? We have to let this thing play out! I don't think a change at the helm is prudent right now...just sayin'.

 

[Hoop Head]

Don't care. We're a laughingstock and have been during the overwhelming majority of McD's entire tenure. This is a huge off-season to change that, but in order to change that we have to CHANGE THAT.

You've only repeated that for the last couple of weeks in every thread but he's going to be around for a bit longer considering he was extended this past offseason. What has he done this season to cause you to want him out so bad or what hasn't he done? What could someone else do so much better than him? Who is even available to replace him?

 

[BC867]

Omg...cheese... sweet baby cheezitz. Wtf can we do?? We have to let this thing play out! I don't think a change at the helm is prudent right now...just sayin'.

Seven years going on eight of not making the playoffs. And the status quo is fine? How can you say that ... with a pokerface?

Pro sports teams are monopolies. Even in L.A. where two of them play in the same building. Does that really entitle their leaders to not being judged by their results? I don't think so.

If we are going to get back to players who are at least of mid-range NBA calibre, they need leaders who can do the same.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Seven years going on eight of not making the playoffs. And the status quo is fine? How can you say that ... with a pokerface?

Pro sports teams are monopolies. Even in L.A. where two of them play in the same building. Does that really entitle their leaders to not being judged by their results? I don't think so.

If we are going to get back to players who are at least of mid-range NBA calibre, they need leaders who can do the same.

Ryan hasn't been here 7 years. He has 4.5 years under his belt. So the status quo argument does not work unless you are talking about getting rid of the owner. McD's first year was a false start. That team looked like it was going to make the playoffs and be something right away. I am sure he had Sarver breathing down his neck to make it go and compete. They then started the next year in competition mode but it became clear it was not going to work mid-season, so they started to blow it up.

So he has had three summers to turn it around. Most rebuilds are not done that fast. But he is probably not going to get much longer. If this team is not substantially better by this time next year, he will be gone. But firing him this summer does not make sense. He had a plan, he got the owner's buy in.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ryan hasn't been here 7 years. He has 4.5 years under his belt. So the status quo argument does not work unless you are talking about getting rid of the owner. McD's first year was a false start. That team looked like it was going to make the playoffs and be something right away. I am sure he had Sarver breathing down his neck to make it go and compete. They then started the next year in competition mode but it became clear it was not going to work mid-season, so they started to blow it up.

So he has had three summers to turn it around. Most rebuilds are not done that fast. But he is probably not going to get much longer. If this team is not substantially better by this time next year, he will be gone. But firing him this summer does not make sense. He had a plan, he got the owner's buy in.

I agree with this. He should be given this offseason and the beginning of next year to show some improvements, if he hasn't by then show him the door. Rebuilding isn't something that can happen over night. I know the Suns have missed the playoffs for the last 7 years but those 7 years weren't on McD's time. This summer will be big for him and I'm fairly certain he understands that also.

 

[pokerface]

Seven years going on eight of not making the playoffs. And the status quo is fine? How can you say that ... with a pokerface?

Pro sports teams are monopolies. Even in L.A. where two of them play in the same building. Does that really entitle their leaders to not being judged by their results? I don't think so.

If we are going to get back to players who are at least of mid-range NBA calibre, they need leaders who can do the same.

McD has had mixed results. Sometimes due to bad luck... sometimes to bad judgement. I think though he's accumulated some decent assets and has a general plan. We should give him a little more time. At least he's staying the course and not trading our future away for some short term gain like a playoff first round exit. The path McD is on is harder because it takes more patience. But I will say patience is wearing thin and we need to see something soon.

Lets consider McD on probation...Is that a middle ground we can agree on?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You've only repeated that for the last couple of weeks in every thread but he's going to be around for a bit longer considering he was extended this past offseason. What has he done this season to cause you to want him out so bad or what hasn't he done? What could someone else do so much better than him? Who is even available to replace him?

Are you f’n kidding? He should have traded Bledsoe over the summer when he KNEW he wasn’t going to sign him to a massive extension. That’s for starters. He could have also not talked crap about ANOTHER player leaving the team after he himself couldn’t foresee the mess he was about to step into.

Here’s the REAL. This team is ATROCIOUS and he DIDNT THINK IT WOULD BE GOING INTO THE SEASON. For that alone, his ass should be canned.

And I’m not saying replace him right now. But you can bet your ass if we could replace Earl “I Love You Man” Watson because he was embarrassing, we can sure as hell replace the moron who gave him the job... WITHOUT EVEN INTERVIEWING ANYONE ELSE.

 

[Cheesebeef]

McD has had mixed results. Sometimes due to bad luck... sometimes to bad judgement. I think though he's accumulated some decent assets and has a general plan. We should give him a little more time. At least he's staying the course and not trading our future away for some short term gain like a playoff first round exit. The path McD is on is harder because it takes more patience. But I will say patience is wearing thin and we need to see something soon.

Lets consider McD on probation...Is that a middle ground we can agree on?

No. He was on Probation after completely destroying the team by bringing in 3 PG, trading one of our best assets in the Laker pick and then signing Knight to that awful deal.

And then while on probation the next two years we got WORSE, with an awful coaching hire with Watson, having ANOTHER fiasco with his last PG left from the three headed monster, stocking up cap room
Which he couldn’t GIVE away and putting together a team this year that has lost by 50... TWICE.

Giving him a THIRD chance is flat out insanity. Do you want another Earl Watson? Do you want another Jeff Hornacek? What GM gets to make THREE coaching hires in four years?!

Seriously, if you removed your fandom from this picture presented above, you would say any team who let that GM hang either doesn’t care about winning or are being run by a bunch of monkeys using pencils dipped in ketchup to make decisions.

 

[Carolinacacti]

trading one of our best assets in the Laker pick and then signing Knight to that awful deal.

That Laker pick was traded again and whats it worth today? Knight is going to come back and make you say WTF

 

[BC867]

McD has had mixed results. Sometimes due to bad luck... sometimes to bad judgement. I think though he's accumulated some decent assets and has a general plan. We should give him a little more time. At least he's staying the course and not trading our future away for some short term gain like a playoff first round exit. The path McD is on is harder because it takes more patience. But I will say patience is wearing thin and we need to see something soon.

Lets consider McD on probation...Is that a middle ground we can agree on?

'Sorry, poker, but I can't agree with that. I agree with Cheese's opinion that McD has literally been on probation and has made too many mistakes, starting with his choice of Head Coaches, right through the present one who announced there will be no continuity. An interim Head Coach should be just that. An interim (stopgap) presence until a permanent one can be hired. Are the Suns looking for that or hoping that he will condescend to changing his mind. That is hardly a pro-active approach to providing leadership.

If McDonough were an investment counsellor, your investment counsellor, would you keep cutting him slack based on his track record?

It seems that Suns fans have reached the point of having to count on hope as a plan. Hope we luck out in the draft one of these years, while our team is already overloaded with young players who have proven to be very inconsistent. Hope that the owner and General Manager make less mistakes.

Just because we act like a small market team doesn't mean we have to accept the mediocrity of being a team without a plan, a team that relies on gimmicks, one after another. The Suns are shallow and are following a losing course of management. Hoping that the ownership, Front Office, coaching staff and and an overloaded team of unproven young players will improve is not going to change things.

In another post, I tried to be optimistic with the addition of a Point Guard who could actually make the rest of the team better. But (a) the rest of the team must have the potential to be good and (b) he is locked in now for just the rest of the season, just as is the interim Head Coach. 'Hardly a plan for the future. All based on hope.

Arizona is proudly home to the Hopi. The Phoenix Suns are the home to hope.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That Laker pick was traded again and whats it worth today? Knight is going to come back and make you say WTF

You’re right. Knight is definitely going to make me say WTF... WTF did we blow a great asset on this guy AND pay him a Max deal.

We are the THIRD team who gave up on him. But hey... youre willing to give McD a third chance, so I guess it makes sense you’d give Knight one too.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That Laker pick was traded again and whats it worth today? Knight is going to come back and make you say WTF

Sweet Jesus you just took the I don’t have any credibility crown. Congratulations and may god have mercy on your soul.

 

[Mainstreet]

McD has had mixed results. Sometimes due to bad luck... sometimes to bad judgement. I think though he's accumulated some decent assets and has a general plan. We should give him a little more time. At least he's staying the course and not trading our future away for some short term gain like a playoff first round exit. The path McD is on is harder because it takes more patience. But I will say patience is wearing thin and we need to see something soon.

Lets consider McD on probation...Is that a middle ground we can agree on?

Agree.

McDonough has placed the Suns in position to have a great summer. Let's see him reap the fruits of his labor.

It's great to see a GM not throw cash after players and seek mediocrity. Bledsoe and Knight were learning moments.

 

[pokerface]

Agree.

McDonough has placed the Suns in position to have a great summer. Let's see him reap the fruits of his labor.

It's great to see a GM not throw cash after players and seek mediocrity. Bledsoe and Knight were learning moments.

That's basically all I'm saying. I can't really argue with what BC and Cheese are saying...I mostly agree with them. But I wholeheartedly agree with you that we should should let him "reap the fruits of his labor"... thats actually well said and gets to the heart of why I still want him around. He prepared us to cash in and I want to see that followed through. Plus too I'm worried about Sarver's judgment and him bringing in someone actually worse.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's basically all I'm saying. I can't really argue with what BC and Cheese are saying...I mostly agree with them. But I wholeheartedly agree with you that we should should let him "reap the fruits of his labor"... thats actually well said and gets to the heart of why I still want him around. He prepared us to cash in and I want to see that followed through. Plus too I'm worried about Sarver's judgment and him bringing in someone actually worse.

I wouldn't trust a GM the Suns bring in at the last moment either.

I do wish the Suns would invest more in scouting.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agree.

McDonough has placed the Suns in position to have a great summer. Let's see him reap the fruits of his labor.

It's great to see a GM not throw cash after players and seek mediocrity. Bledsoe and Knight were learning moments.

What are you talking about? Our GM ABSOLUTELY tried to throw huge ridiculous money at Aldridge and Griffin which would have elevated us to mediocrity and keep us there forever with their massive contracts killing our cap. Just because he couldn’t sign those guys doesn’t mean he didn’t try. And even there he failed.

Also, we’re not where we are because of the fruits of McD’s labor. His plan WASN’T to tank. And the Bucks/Miami picks might not even convey this year and even if one of them, it’s nit going to be a high pick. We are where we are because of McD’s incompetence in choosing coaches and not finding anyone but Booker to be a legit stud despite having nothing but lotto picks his entire time here.

Just answer me one question: Do you believe that McD can find a good coach after the disastrous Horny/Watson decisions?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ryan hasn't been here 7 years. He has 4.5 years under his belt. So the status quo argument does not work unless you are talking about getting rid of the owner. McD's first year was a false start. That team looked like it was going to make the playoffs and be something right away. I am sure he had Sarver breathing down his neck to make it go and compete. They then started the next year in competition mode but it became clear it was not going to work mid-season, so they started to blow it up.

So he has had three summers to turn it around. Most rebuilds are not done that fast. But he is probably not going to get much longer. If this team is not substantially better by this time next year, he will be gone. But firing him this summer does not make sense. He had a plan, he got the owner's buy in.

So fire him next year AFTER he makes a massive pick and huge head coaching decision... so you saddle a new GM with a coach that ISNT his? That literally makes no sense.

And people have to stop with this BS about McD’s “plan”. He’s had SO MANY plans that have blown up in his face. He... forget it.

Y’all get what you deserve when you defend nonstop incompetence.

 

[Hoop Head]

What? He tried to throw huge ridiculous money at Aldridge and Griffin which would have elevated us to mediocrity and keep us there forever with their massive contracts killing our cap. Just because he couldn’t sign those guys doesn’t mean he didn’t try. And even there he failed.

Also, we’re not where we are because of the fruits of McD’s labor. His plan WASN’T to tank. And the Bucks/Miami picks might not even convey this year and even if one of them, it’s nit going to be a high pick. We are where we are because of McD’s incompetence in choosing coaches and not finding anyone but Booker to be a legit stud despite having nothing but lotto picks his entire time here.

Just answer me one question: Do you believe that McD can find a good coach after the disastrous Horny/Watson decisions?

People have other views on the moves he's made, you don't need to try and convince everyone else that he should be fired. Everyone knows where you stand regarding McD but not everyone agrees with you and no matter how much you try and bash each thing that he's done the majority of people aren't going to change their mind.

The Suns never met with Griffin so McD never pitched him or tried to bring him in. You aren't trying to acquire someone in free agency unless you've met with them or their agent and he didn't meet with Griffin or his agent. He did try and bring Aldridge in but came up short, it happens.

You don't want him to try and sign a big name free agent because the ones that have been available wouldn't help the Suns enough, in your opinion. However you also don't want them to tank for a top pick this year because you're disappointed with how the Suns have played this year. So how is he supposed to add a star if he doesn't go after them in free agency or by trying to get a top draft pick? All that's left is trading for one and they're not available all the time. If there was one available to trade for I'm sure he would have tried but there's no point this season because that would have screwed up our draft position.

 

[pokerface]

Cheese didn't you say a couple posts ago you don't want him canned right now?

Plus you are worried about McD hiring another lousy coach when you should worry about Sarver hiring another lousy gm. He's been through his share of them too.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here’s another problem with the “fruits of his labor argument”... I assume you’re all talking about our picks in this upcoming draft. Okay. Let’s break those picks down and actually talk about his labor.

The Suns 1st Round pick: This will be a VERY high pick... because McD has put together an ATROCIOUS team which has gotten WORSE the last three years. And not PLANNED to get worse. He thought they were getting better. So, the fruit of that pick doesn’t come from his labor. It comes from his incompetence.

The Heat Pick: A pick that will be outside of the top 7 and right now looks like it might fall to 20. So... nothing special... especially when you consider that the only reason we have this pick is because of McD’s ATROCIOUS three point guard plan which blew up in his face. So great.. he screwed the team up and was FORCED to trade for a guy who’s been very good for the Heat, making the All-star team and all he has to show for it right now is a mid-late first round pick? Meh.

The Bucks Pick: so, this is likely a pick that won’t even convey this off-season and was MUCH less than everyone on the board thought Bledsoe was worth before the season started. So, again.. McD didn’t foresee the EASILY foreseeable problem with Bledsoe and then had to sell him for pennies on the dollar... again. For a pick we might not even get this year and even if we do, it will be a middling mid-round pick.

In both of those last two transactions he had to take what he could get on those deals because of the situation he created and what he got isn’t that impressive.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese didn't you say a couple posts ago you don't want him canned right now?

Yes. I want him canned the day the season is over.