Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[Covert Rain]

I didn't say McDonough had peaked.

Hopefully his career is starting to peak... or crash depending on the results forthcoming.

I hope you are right. I hope right now all this pain the franchise is going through is setting us up for a long future run as a great team. I am skeptical because this team has tread water and regressed under Sarver IMO. I hope we have turned the corner.

I want a title here in the worst way.

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope you are right. I hope right now all this pain the franchise is going through is setting us up for a long future run as a great team. I am skeptical because this team has tread water and regressed under Sarver IMO. I hope we have turned the corner.

I want a title here in the worst way.

I'd like for the Suns to eventually win a championship as well. Everyone has the right to be skeptical.

The only stability I have seen with the Suns in years is Ryan McDonough. I can only hope he is leading the Suns to the promised land.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The only stability I have seen with the Suns in years is Ryan McDonough. I can only hope he is leading the Suns to the promised land.

man... I just don't get how you can't see that the above only strengthens my argument. There's been a rotating door of coaches and players and there's only one constant in all the suckage... the guy who's making the decisions on those coaches and players that have led us to be a laughingstock.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Come on. You wanted the Suns to tank.

way to miss the entire point. The Suns didn't come into the season trying to tank. If they did, I would give them kudos for finally realizing what was necessary to ever get better. McD came into the season thinking we were going to be better and have tanked only to his incompetence in putting a roster together that could do so.

 

[Mainstreet]

man... I just don't get how you can't see that the above only strengthens my argument. There's been a rotating door of coaches and players and there's only one constant in all the suckage... the guy who's making the decisions on those coaches and players that have led us to be a laughingstock.

I have more confidence in McDonough than previous Suns General Managers: D'Antoni, Kerr, Blanks and Babby.

Seriously doubt the Suns are going to hire anyone better.

 

[SirStefan32]

My biggest issues with McD was the three point guard thing. I still haven't forgiven him for chasing Dragic out of town by forcing him to stand at the three point line as a spot-up shooter while Bledsoe and IT handled the basketball. Then he doubled down and traded the Lakers' pick for Knight. Then he proceeded to sign him to a long contract. Outside of that, I am actually not at all unhappy with McD. When he took over, the team had no assets. It's unfortunate that the team overachieved so much that one year, as it really set back the proper rebuild. I think he's drafted reasonably well, he has done a good job not overpaying free agents (Knight being one exception, though even his contract is not THAT bad), and he's managed to maintain financial flexibility. In my mind, a lot will depend on how Bender, Jackson, and Chriss turn out, along with what he does in the draft, free agency, and trades this summer.

 

[SirStefan32]

I have more confidence in McDonough than previous Suns General Managers: D'Antoni, Kerr, Blanks and Babby.

Seriously doubt the Suns are going to hire anyone better.

I thought Kerr did a great job, that one disaster (KT trade) excluded. I agree with the rest.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes. I think McD's hands have been tied somewhat regarding coaching decisions. He hired Hornacek in year one and I believe that was pushed on him by Sarver because of him being a fan favorite in Phoenix still. No one predicted Hornacek to be as inept of a coach as he’s been so far, not just in Phoenix but in general. When it came to hiring Watson he made the mistake of trying to appease the roster because they all requested he be kept on as the head coach after his half season as the interim. He proved to be horrible at X’s and O’s but good with the players themselves. Watson did help start developing the young talent we have but I don’t think he was ever meant to be the coach that would lead the team once they had a solid core in place and were ready to compete for a playoff spot. The only way Watson would have been kept then is if he proved to be a solid strategic coach by that point and he hadn’t. He wasn’t prepared to be a head coach in the league and neither was Hornacek. I’m fairly certain McD knows he needs to hire a coach with NBA experience going forward after having 2 rookie coaches underperform here. Triano has been good but he’s been clear that he doesn’t want to be a head coach in the NBA so I don’t he him being kept on even if he’s interviewed. McD deserves the chance to assemble the roster for a coach that knows what they’re doing. If it doesn’t work out, fire him. He is under contract through 2020 right now.

Man you’re making a lot of excuses and assumptions. You assume server forced hornacek on McD. No evidence to that effect. Watson was well liked by the players but I fail to see any player development from him. And now you’re “fairly certain” what McD knows he has to do. That’s a ton of conjecture that you’re relying upon without a shred of indication that any of it is based in even rumor.

 

[Mainstreet]

way to miss the entire point. The Suns didn't come into the season trying to tank. If they did, I would give them kudos for finally realizing what was necessary to ever get better. McD came into the season thinking we were going to be better and have tanked only to his incompetence in putting a roster together that could do so.

I think it called being able to adapt. The Suns had a chance to be a better team this season before Bledsoe forced his way out. Hiring Watson as head coach indeed was a mistake. However, I don't think a team should open the season trying to be bad.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My biggest issues with McD was the three point guard thing. I still haven't forgiven him for chasing Dragic out of town by forcing him to stand at the three point line as a spot-up shooter while Bledsoe and IT handled the basketball. Then he doubled down and traded the Lakers' pick for Knight. Then he proceeded to sign him to a long contract. Outside of that, I am actually not at all unhappy with McD. When he took over, the team had no assets. It's unfortunate that the team overachieved so much that one year, as it really set back the proper rebuild. I think he's drafted reasonably well, he has done a good job not overpaying free agents (Knight being one exception, though even his contract is not THAT bad), and he's managed to maintain financial flexibility. In my mind, a lot will depend on how Bender, Jackson, and Chriss turn out, along with what he does in the draft, free agency, and trades this summer.

Are you okay with his coaching hires?

And man, people here keep bringer big up the “assets” he’s brought here, without acknowledging the reality that a) mid round first round picks aren’t that valuable and b) he should have been able to get better assets but tied his own hands in the trade market by not having the obvious foresight that disaster with those players was on the horizon.

 

[Carolinacacti]

You’re right. Knight is definitely going to make me say WTF... WTF did we blow a great asset on this guy AND pay him a Max deal.

We are the THIRD team who gave up on him. But hey... youre willing to give McD a third chance, so I guess it makes sense you’d give Knight one too.

The max deal is way more then 15 million like 15 million more. Third times the Charm.

 

[Mainstreet]

I thought Kerr did a great job, that one disaster (KT trade) excluded. I agree with the rest.

It's all hindsight now.

 

[Carolinacacti]

In my mind, a lot will depend on how Bender, Jackson, and Chriss turn out, along with what he does in the draft, free agency, and trades this summer.

This right here tells it all. I really believe if Bled and Knight had played this year with Book things would be Brighter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think it called being able to adapt. The Suns had a chance to be a better team this season before Bledsoe forced his way out. Hiring Watson as head coach indeed was a mistake. However, I don't think a team should open the season trying to be bad.

And AGAIN, the fact that he didn’t see the Bledsoe problem coming even tho he had no intention of giving him the extension he knew Bledsoe wanted is why he had to “adapt”.

And you believe Payton was a really good pickup, right? That only bolsters the argument that McD STILL hasn’t committed to tanking because if he was he wouldn’t be doing things to make the team better during the tank.

 

[Carolinacacti]

This team will tank. They had a 21 point lead on the Hornets and tanked that game away. Payton will help and I see the Suns looking good for a couple quarters. But at the end you will see the tank. Even Booker knows how to tank.

 

[SirStefan32]

Are you okay with his coaching hires?

And man, people here keep bringer big up the “assets” he’s brought here, without acknowledging the reality that a) mid round first round picks aren’t that valuable and b) he should have been able to get better assets but tied his own hands in the trade market by not having the obvious foresight that disaster with those players was on the horizon.

I was OK with Horancek hire. As for Watson, now I'd say he was a poor hire, but I can see how he'd look like an OK option for a very young team. I think the lesson is that young teams need experienced coaches, but I was OK with Earl at the time. Suns have a history of hiring cheap when it comes to coaches, though, so that goes beyond McD.

As to your second paragraph, we'll agree to disagree. It's easy to say that someone should have gotten more in trades, but I don't think it's that simple. Suns had nothing when he took over. Now they have a bunch of picks and quite a few promising youngsters, along with their star and an other excellent young player in Booker and Warren. I am satisfied with that. We gotta see what he does this summer and also how Bender, Chriss, and Jackson develop. While inconsistent, I've really liked Jackson and Bender this year.

 

[BC867]

Guys, y'know what I'm reading from most of these posts (even the optimistic ones)? That McDonough won't be as bad as he's been.

Is that our ceiling??? Not that we'll have a GM with the skill to take us to the next level with authority. But one who may not make the same mistakes.

Are we that brainwashed, or defeatist, as Suns fans that our hopes are 'less negative' rather than positive?

Our latest era has been a technical and public relations disaster. It's time to shake out the cobwebs and move on.

Hoping that McDonough has learned from his gimmicks or various series of blunders is just not good enough.

And if the problem is being under Sarver's naive thumb, we need a GM who will, in fact, have the cojones to tell him, "You hired me as GM, now you go count your money let me do my job."

Time will tell. And if the status quo remains, shame on us.

 

[Mainstreet]

And AGAIN, the fact that he didn’t see the Bledsoe problem coming even tho he had no intention of giving him the extension he knew Bledsoe wanted is why he had to “adapt”.

Not trading Bledsoe over the summer was a mistake in hindsight. However, who was to know he would pull these early season shenanigans.

And you believe Payton was a really good pickup, right? That only bolsters the argument that McD STILL hasn’t committed to tanking because if he was he wouldn’t be doing things to make the team better during the tank.

Payton was a good pickup for the price. How he works out long term is a different question.

I suspect the Suns were near falling apart mentally and physically without a PG thus the trade for Payton. The Suns need to keep Booker happy.

 

[SirStefan32]

And AGAIN, the fact that he didn’t see the Bledsoe problem coming even tho he had no intention of giving him the extension he knew Bledsoe wanted is why he had to “adapt”.

And you believe Payton was a really good pickup, right? That only bolsters the argument that McD STILL hasn’t committed to tanking because if he was he wouldn’t be doing things to make the team better during the tank.

Oh come on, man! He had to get a point guard, and he got one for nothing. That PG may also turn into a long-term contributor. At the same time, he is not good enough to jeopardize the draft position. I am not a huge Payton fan, but that was a good move.

As for Bledsoe, he never should have signed him in the first place, and he should have traded him, but there was an extra season there to work with. My guess he would have traded him the following summer. Also, if he believed Bledsoe to be part of the future, it's quite reasonable to assume he could have been signed for less. The way that the market is shaping up, nobody is going to be able to give Bledsoe a big contract.

In my opinion, McD could walk on water and turn water into wine, and you'd still want him fired, so this discussion is like banging my head against the wall.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I thought Kerr did a great job, that one disaster (KT trade) excluded. I agree with the rest.

Kerr was not a good GM. He was a pushover in negotiations. However, I think he would have learned quickly. If you are going to hire newbie mgmt, you have to stick with them long enough to enjoy the benefits of the their on-the-job education. Sarver was too impatient.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh come on, man! He had to get a point guard, and he got one for nothing. That PG may also turn into a long-term contributor. At the same time, he is not good enough to jeopardize the draft position. I am not a huge Payton fan, but that was a good move.

As for Bledsoe, he never should have signed him in the first place, and he should have traded him, but there was an extra season there to work with. My guess he would have traded him the following summer. Also, if he believed Bledsoe to be part of the future, it's quite reasonable to assume he could have been signed for less. The way that the market is shaping up, nobody is going to be able to give Bledsoe a big contract.

In my opinion, McD could walk on water and turn water into wine, and you'd still want him fired, so this discussion is like banging my head against the wall.

You’re last sentence is ridiculous considering all we’ve seen is McD drowning for four years.

If he actually ever did something positive that PRODUCED A GOOD PRODUCT, I’d say so. But he hasn’t. Acting like he has and I’ve completely ignored it as the team looks at its third consecutive season with a WORSE makes zero sense.

Getting a bullseye on one throw with Booker doesn’t make up for all his other darts that have either barely hit the board or missed it entirely.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kerr was not a good GM. He was a pushover in negotiations. However, I think he would have learned quickly. If you are going to hire newbie mgmt, you have to stick with them long enough to enjoy the benefits of the their on-the-job education. Sarver was too impatient.

Kerr had a terrible trade with KT and then took a team that had fallen out of the playoffs, literally swapped out EVERYONE sans Nash/Amare and took them to the WCF within two years.

If that’s not a good GM, then that has to make McD the worst piece of garbage GM to ever walk the earth.

 

[BC867]

Oh come on, man! He had to get a point guard, and he got one for nothing. That PG may also turn into a long-term contributor. At the same time, he is not good enough to jeopardize the draft position. I am not a huge Payton fan, but that was a good move.

I'm wondering who is in the driver's seat, Stef. Is it the Suns or is it Payton?

If Payton emerges as a solid starting Point Guard, is it the Suns, who could try to re-sign him for next season?

Or is it Payton, who will have used the Suns to prove himself and sign with a better run team next season?

We got him for next to nothing. I won't say, "You get what you get pay for." But I will say, "You get the situation you pay for." Cheap is as cheap does.

Who has more to lose from this bargain transaction? I think it's the Suns. If Payton fails, what did he lose? Not very much. He'll go back to what he was.

If Payton succeeds and leaves, the hapless, ignorant Front Office of the Suns will have to start again .. again. Even if they 'luck out' in the draft with a young Point Guard.

The only "hope" (there's a word I've used to describe the Suns "planning" in another post) is that his friendship with Warren will get him to re-up.

I expect that the desire to play with a well run and successful team will win out for Payton and the Suns will have found themselves in another no-win situation through very short sighted management.

 

[Mainstreet]

Kerr had a terrible trade with KT and then took a team that had fallen out of the playoffs, literally swapped out EVERYONE sans Nash/Amare and took them to the WCF within two years.

If that’s not a good GM, then that has to make McD the worst piece of garbage GM to ever walk the earth.

Nash and Amare were not chopped liver.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Come on. You wanted the Suns to tank.

I don’t think he’d deny that. But the point is, McD has only actually TRIED to tank for a part of a season. The rest of the time he’s TRIED to create a competitive team. And he’s failed miserably in that regard. So just because we might be ending up with the result WE want doesn’t change the fact that McD has actually failed in his gameplan. And THAT’s what he should be judged on - whether he’s accomplished HIS goals - not whether he’s accodentally achieved OUR goals.