Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[SirStefan32]

No its not. His first rebuild. He started to rebuild and the team ended up doing exceptionally well that first year. He has even said that that year might have hurt us more than helped us because it delayed the start of the rebuild two years.

What do we get with McD?

1. Reasonable cap management. Look at the cap hell teams like the Lakers, Pelicans, Hornets, Knicks, and others are in. We do not have unmanageable contracts.

2. Good picks. Yes. The best drafters only hit 50% or so. TJ, Warren, and I believe JJ are hits. Bender might end up being yet.

3. We don't get another green GM learning all over from the beginning, because that is what you know Sarver will hire. Steve Kerr was a bad GM, he made horrible trades. Lance Blanks was too.

I agree with you, though I am less optimistic about Bender and Johnson, though they were reasonable picks.

Your third point is very important. Having been a new Supervisor, a new Manager, and a New GM (in a much less lucrative business than the NBA, of course), I do understand that when you are new, YOU are learning and developing for a few years. To me, McD is no different than Booker, Warren, Jackson, etc. His development is every bit as real and as important as that of the players. That's where Sarver comes in and makes a determination on how well McD has developed. He'd need to explain a few things... chasing Goran out of town (indirectly), trading IT for nothing, and trading a Lakers' pick for Brandon Knight. Oh, and then signing Knight to a huge deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

No, IT-trade was made minutes before the deadline when Dragic was already gone.

McD is OK at drafting, had good and bad ones, some done better, others worse. He seems a very succesful negotiator at FA-deal and extensions.

I think that McD made some excellent trades (original Bledsoe and the Scola-trade), some good ones and a terrible one (the Knight-trade).

He overestimated Knight and the Lakers as a FA-market, but the worst part of it was that he completey misevaluated his own team.

He thought that the rebuilding is over when it didn't even start.

Overestimating the Dragic-Bledsoe led-team based on a 49-33 season is one thing and I can't really blame him for that. But after the 2015 trade deadline mess (one good trade, one bad and one terrible) I simply could not digest how he could have though that it is a good thing to chase free-agents like Aldridge and Chandler.

He still thought that Bledsoe is a cornerstone. He was not and that was painfully clear as Bledsoe grew as an offensive player and paralell with that he declined as a defender. Once it was clear that he was not a two-way player anymore, it was obvious that he will not lead anyone anywhere.

Yet, McD kept waiting and considered him a franchise player-something until Bledsoe wanted to be extended and then to be traded and the Suns were forced to sell him low.

Now after all these years of semi-and non-rebuilding all we have is one future core player in Booker, one good-OK player in Warren and a few prospects that could even turn out to be something.

That's a quite embarassing product of 5 years of his reign.

Nice points hcsilla.

In regard to IT, I thought the trade was already in the works before it was announced. GMs tend to not walk back a trade at the last minute. Of course it is only my opinion.

 

[BC867]

This year is the end of his SECOND rebuild. People thought we were going to be better this year... hell, some here thought we’d challenge for a playoff spot!

When you’re rebuilding for a THIRD time... and make no mistake, when you need a new HC, with very little proven talent that’s exactly what it is... a third rebuild.... Staying with someone who’s failed rebuilding TWICE for continuity sake is the definition of insanity.

This says it all. Aside from our two starting wings, Booker and Warren, our roster is not NBA competitive -- overloaded with young players who are disappointing and players past their prime. With a history of gimmicks -- three lead Point Guards; three Centers in the rotation, none of whom are our starting Center for the future.

The Suns philosophy has been to hire General Managers for on-the-job training and Head Coaches who can do no better than to accept unbalanced rosters.

Managing General Partner Robert Server is pulling a CON-JOB on Phoenix Suns fans and, as long as he and his 30% investment are allowed to call the shots, we will flounder in mediocrity. Hoping year after year to luck out in the draft and hope that magical combinations fall into our lap. That is not a definition of skill.

Sarver's bank in Tucson is doing well financially. You can't run an NBA team (in the public domain and in the most talented basketball league in the world) as you would a small city bank.

This talk about whether fans think we should retain our inexperienced General Manager is moot. The problem is the clown who waved the foam finger in the stands and had the gall to act as General Manager. He is a narcissistic fool and, no matter whom he hires, he sets a low ceiling for our Phoenix Suns.

 

[SirStefan32]

BC, I love you like a brother! Sarver is not going anywhere, and he has shown that he is willing to spend the money- he just hasn't been able to spend it well. Can we stop complaining about Sarver and focus on things that are in the realm of possibility?

 

[Carolinacacti]

atrocious team

That mid first rounder should make this atrocious team. You need to go root for some other team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, that depends on how the next season starts. If he can get a point guard and a big through trades/ free agency/ draft, and they start winning, are at 50% by the all-star break, then probably yes. Otherwise, no.

What kind of coach do you think is going to come here knowing he’s going into the year with a GM who might be blown out next year?

Feels like a lot of you refuse to Think more than one step ahead.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That mid first rounder should make this atrocious team. You need to go root for some other team.

and you need to go to another board if you can't abide by the biggest rule here: Questioning another posters fandom and telling him to get lost.

 

[BC867]

BC, I love you like a brother! Sarver is not going anywhere, and he has shown that he is willing to spend the money- he just hasn't been able to spend it well. Can we stop complaining about Sarver and focus on things that are in the realm of possibility?

But as long as Sarver is calling the shots (and his inability to spend money well, as you said), the "realm of possibility" consists of inexperienced, mediocre General Managers and Head Coaches, leading to uncompetitive rosters.

Stefan, I've tried to pinpoint in my mind what is most frustrating about the Suns condition right now. I think it is that we have way too many holes to fill than we can possibly hope for.

Although I am in good health, I am about to turn 77, have been a Suns fan since 1970, and don't enjoy the prospect of another eight years of disappointment.

Our Suns began this season as the laughingstock of the NBA then rose back to mediocrity. Please, please, give us an idea of how you think things will be different going forward. You know that tank-and-hope is wearing thin.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No its not. His first rebuild. He started to rebuild and the team ended up doing exceptionally well that first year. He has even said that that year might have hurt us more than helped us because it delayed the start of the rebuild two years.

wait a second... you're saying as we look at hiring our THIRD coach in 5 five years, we're still in McDs FIRST rebuild? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Say what you want about our surprise first year... he completely destroyed that team with his decisions following it. Blowing up that team started a new rebuild in any circumstance.

His second rebuild starts with Watson... who's now been fired.

In any universe a third head coach is a show that a third era is beginning.

How anyone argues different is beyond me.

What do we get with McD?

1. Reasonable cap management. Look at the cap hell teams like the Lakers, Pelicans, Hornets, Knicks, and others are in. We do not have unmanageable contracts.

Doesn't do a lick of good if you can't entice anyone of note to use the cap space... which he hasn't.

2. Good picks. Yes. The best drafters only hit 50% or so. TJ, Warren, and I believe JJ are hits. Bender might end up being yet.

Two PROVEN picks out of five lotto picks isn't 50%. And while you believe JJ is a hit (and I hope he is), the jury's wayyyyyyy out on him. As far as Bender, people here have been asking if he needs to go down to the freaking G-League to learn how to play. Putting him in any list of "might be's" might be you're most difficult task proving yet.

3. We don't get another green GM learning all over from the beginning, because that is what you know Sarver will hire. Steve Kerr was a bad GM, he made horrible trades. Lance Blanks was too.

So, instead, we just stay with the guy who as a green GM actually looked promising EARLY but only became WORSE as he went forward. That's one of my biggest problems with McD. A lot of the things y'all list as positives from him... the first Bled trade, Scola, Warren all happened FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO. Since then, he's blown up the team numerous times, traded TRULY valuable assets like the Lakers pick and IT for peanuts, signed guys like Chandler and the black hole injured with an ACL to contracts no one else in their right mind would have, been slammed in the press by every player that has left here and then slammed by the press for airing dirty laundry, fired two coaches and made picks in the draft (save Booker) who have accomplished literally nothing.

He's been TRENDING DOWNWARD, and as he has, so has our record. And that's not by design like the sixers who literally just tanked seasons. We have repeatedly come into seasons thinking we would see signs of improvement only for them to implode and tank because of how awful the decision making has been.

And you keep saying the only person we'll ever get will be worse than McD. But after years of sucking ass with one green GM after another, I believe that Sarver knows he HAS to actually get someone substantial to turn this ship around.

I have to... otherwise there's literally no point in following this team.

We are a LAUGHINGSTOCK of the league. Pimping continuity in the face of that is hopeless.

 

[SirStefan32]

But as long as Sarver is calling the shots (and his inability to spend money well, as you said), the "realm of possibility" consists of inexperienced, mediocre General Managers and Head Coaches, leading to uncompetitive rosters.

Stefan, I've tried to pinpoint in my mind what is most frustrating about the Suns condition right now. I think it is that we have way too many holes to fill than we can possibly hope for.

Although I am in good health, I am about to turn 77, have been a Suns fan since 1970, and don't enjoy the prospect of another eight years of disappointment.

Our Suns began this season as the laughingstock of the NBA then rose back to mediocrity. Please, please, give us an idea of how you think things will be different going forward. You know that tank-and-hope is wearing thin.

I am only 35 and I don't think I could handle another eight years of disappointment. That said, Sarver is the owner, and he doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

 

[Mainstreet]

In my opinion this is somewhat a strike against McD rather than a point in favor of him. If we are just going to draft where players are slotted by mainstream press then the GM isn’t doing anything to bring value. It’s the unusual selections that typically get booed fans or panned by “experts” (Dan Majerle, Giannis, Shawn Marion, etc) thy end up hitting big that shows true acumen by a gm. For instance, I still believe in josh Jackson long term, but if McD chose Donovan Mitchell over him he would’ve received jeers from fans and “experts” but would look like a genius now.

I’d like to think that Warren and Booker were the result of his knowledge, but if I recall correctly neither was really a reach and basically went where they were projected to be drafted. So yes McD made the RIGHT decision with those two, but I’m unsure it really reflects any superior insight on his part.

It's hard to argue this point. I'd like for the Suns to hit on a sleeper pick as much as anyone like Kyle Kuzma.

 

[Errntknght]

I think one has to take into consideration that McD has been working under Sarver. We don't find out how many of his poor/bad moves that Sarver played a role in, but I suspect it's quite a few. I'd guess not Hornacek because a good number of us thought that was a great hire. (I was very disappointed in Horny the first year, despite his surprising record. I give McD some discredit for keeping him after that - and perhaps Sarver played a role in that.) I give Hornacek the blame for how poorly the Trio Dragic, Bled and IT worked out as it was hiis failure to grasp what was happening on his team that led to last second mess around the trading away of two or the three and the panic mode snatching up of Brandon Knight. I do fault McD for giving Knight a much bigger contract than he'd earned.
The Morris twins was mostly on them and Hornacek not having control - McD did a good job dealing with that mess.
I think Sarver played a major role in hiring Watson, perhaps by tightening the purse strings or wanting it to be settled very rapidly. Earl had not shown anything positive as an interim coach so I couldn't see McD wanting more of him.

It kind of comes down to whether one prefers Sarver hiring another GM (or not hiring one like he did at one time) or prefers McD hiring another coach. I'm fairly convinced that McD won't mess up this draft since he's not shown any propensity to reach for early picks - I wish he would have a couple of times in weaker drafts - but it appears the most hyped players are the best choices this year. (Now, anyway).
I'm not sure exactly when McD's contract runs out - it could happen after the draft has taken place. If not then Sarver will have to have a short process selecting his successor or do the drafting without a GM - and I like neither of those options.


All in all, I'd rather McD be extended but for no more than two years.

 

[Superbone]

What kind of coach do you think is going to come here knowing he’s going into the year with a GM who might be blown out next year?

Feels like a lot of you refuse to Think more than one step ahead.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pot, meet kettle.

I’d love for you to answer my initial question.

Then I’m curious how you think Im not looking one step ahead.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I’d love for you to answer my initial question.

Then I’m curious how you think Im not looking one step ahead.

Cheesebeef - I am in total agreement with your feeling towards McDonough.

It seems as though you and I are the only ones that are willing to hold this guy accountable.

I am not looking for perfection, just a little progress. I have seen none at all. I quite frankly am concerned about Booker and Warren. I think they can be part of our future but losing wears on them just like it does us fans. Surely they get paid well to lose but at some point it can become the norm.

I will not go through all the mistakes McDonough has made and there are many, without many positives.

I remember him acknowledging his mistakes when Hornacek was here. He gave him an unbalanced roster. To many guards and not enough bigs. He said that would never happen again.

Well it is 4 years later;

1. We no longer have a problem of having too many Point guards - we have none - criminal. How can you dump Bledsoe without getting a replacement at his position. This when you really have no back ups. I guess he thought Mike James was a great talent. It did not take him long to dump that great talent after Bledsoe left. We still are a rudderless ship.

2. Our bigs still stink.

3. I think we might have a good coach but he really has no chance in this environment - he deserves better and I really have no faith that Ryan can choose the proper replacement for Triano.

I would like a new GM sooner than later, like right after the trade deadline. Let him get acquainted with the roster and coaches so he can be prepared for a very important off season.

I do not know who I would replace him with but I would at least have a discussion with someone like Grant Hill if he was interested. It may not work but it would be a breath of fresh air. We really need something positive to happen and soon.

 

[95pro]

My biggest issue with McD is there are several trades where he "got good value considering..." and the limiting factors were at least partially his fault.

Dragic, Bledsoe, the Morris brothers, and to a lesser extent IT. That's a lot of unhappy players under his regime.

This is what I'm not liking as well. Respectable Suns who initially wanted to be here but want out for some reason. I'd like to move on from McDouche.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I am really tired of rooting for this team to lose so that we can get a better draft pick.

It seems like that is all we have done since Sarver blew up the team in 2010.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well. This is McD’s summer to make waves. If this team is not markedly better next year, he is in big trouble. Most of us were figuring between 30 and 35 wins this year WITH Bledsoe and Sarver was completely ridiculed by most for talking about shooting for .500. So this year going according to expectations except for Bledsoe.

The odd thing is that Bledsoe’s departure seems to have fast forwarded the timeline.

There will be more money available this summer. So we will see what McD can put together.

 

[Hoop Head]

Rebuilding takes time. How long do people think GM's should be kept around for? I know McD isn't perfect but since Booker has been drafted they've been trending in the right direction for the most part. I know they tried competing in Booker's first year but injuries to Bledsoe and Knight held them back. I think this should be McD's final offseason if the team doesn't show improvement through the first part of next season but to bring someone else in would be a mistake at this point. McD doesn't have any holdover now from the previous regime, this is his team, and hopefully he can bring in a solid coach with some good developmental coaches this offseason to help the team turn the corner.

People can be hung up on him selecting his 3rd coach but I don't think Hornacek was entirely his call. Jeff had a history with the Suns franchise and was a good face for the team at the time. No one expected him to be as bad of a coach as he turned out to be. Watson was a mistake but one that can't fully fall on McD's shoulders. He listened to the players who all supported Watson getting a chance as the head coach, without the interim label. He appears to have learned from that mistake with Triano and hasn't committed to him, despite some fans thinking Triano should be retained during various stretches of this season.

No GM is perfect but I can't fault McD for the majority of the moves he's made. However this summer/offseason he needs to start cashing in on the assets he's accumulated and start moving this franchise towards contention or Sarver needs to hire someone else to right the ship.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Well. This is McD’s summer to make waves. If this team is not markedly better next year, he is in big trouble. Most of us were figuring between 30 and 35 wins this year WITH Bledsoe and Sarver was completely ridiculed by most for talking about shooting for .500. So this year going according to expectations except for Bledsoe.

The odd thing is that Bledsoe’s departure seems to have fast forwarded the timeline.

There will be more money available this summer. So we will see what McD can put together.

This is the line of thinking I just cannot understand.

IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF - he sucks again this summer he is in big trouble.

For god's sake in any other industry he would have been long gone based on his job performance.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is the line of thinking I just cannot understand.

IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF - he sucks again this summer he is in big trouble.

For god's sake in any other industry he would have been long gone based on his job performance.

Agreed.

He’s had FOUR SUMMERS to make waves and all he’s done is crashed and burned worse than Greg Freaking Brady when the family went to Honolulu and he put that stupid hex on himself!

 

[JustWinBaby]

Agreed.

He’s had FOUR SUMMERS to make waves and all he’s done is crashed and burned worse than Greg Freaking Brady when the family went to Honolulu and he put that stupid hex on himself!

Just a slight correction he has had 5 off seasons to improve this team

2013 - Alex Len
2014
2015
2016
2017

This will be his 6th, yes his freaking 6th draft and off season to make trades, sign free agents and draft players.

I do not know how to fairly evaluate our roster. But we probably have the worst roster in the entire NBA and have been flirting with that honor for several years.

I repeat, why does any Suns fan support his performance. All he needs is one more year and he is in trouble.

Give me a freaking break. He is lucky to have a job.

I just want to watch a competitive fun team. I could care less if we win a championship. I just want to be competitive. Some think getting the 8th seed would be horrible. If that is true what do you call the last 7 years or is 8. I am losing track of when we were respectable.

 

[Superbone]

Just a slight correction he has had 5 off seasons to improve this team

2013 - Alex Len
2014
2015
2016
2017

This will be his 6th, yes his freaking 6th draft and off season to make trades, sign free agents and draft players.

I do not know how to fairly evaluate our roster. But we probably have the worst roster in the entire NBA and have been flirting with that honor for several years.

I repeat, why does any Suns fan support his performance. All he needs is one more year and he is in trouble.

Give me a freaking break. He is lucky to have a job.

I just want to watch a competitive fun team. I could care less if we win a championship. I just want to be competitive. Some think getting the 8th seed would be horrible. If that is true what do you call the last 7 years or is 8. I am losing track of when we were respectable.

2014 and 2010 were the last 2 respectable years. So, only one year with McD. Is he at his rope's end? Yeah. The question is should he be kicked off the platform. I can understand both sides. I'm just not sure if it's a good idea to abort in the middle of the current plan. It could set us back even more. I guess it would depend on who would step in. Sarver doesn't have a good track record there.

 

[Praxis]

I don't think McDonough is going anywhere. Sarver wants him in charge of the timeline. He does have an eye for talent, but he is not a great manager. Hopefully he can learn from mistakes and get us back on track. The 2013-2014 season wasn't so long ago.

I'm actually glad we didn't land a big FA in recent offseasons. We just need to hit with our picks this year and sign a vet or two to help us win next season.

 

[JustWinBaby]

2014 and 2010 were the last 2 respectable years. So, only one year with McD. Is he at his rope's end? Yeah. The question is should he be kicked off the platform. I can understand both sides. I'm just not sure if it's a good idea to abort in the middle of the current plan. It could set us back even more. I guess it would depend on who would step in. Sarver doesn't have a good track record there.

Or get us started on the correct path sooner.......

I admire your patience. However this guy has had enough time.

I do not know if I could handle another Alex Len, Bender or Chriss to be drafted this summer.

Something also stinks about this idea of Bradley to the Suns. I can see another overpay for a PG that isn't really a PG heading our way.

I have little faith in McDonough's decision making. Why should anyone?