Should Vince Carter be left out of the rotation?

[sunsfan88]

Shouldn't Dudley start over him?

Starting lineup should be:

Nash
Dudley
Hill
Frye
Lopez

Bench:

Brooks
Pietrus
Childress
Warrick
Gortat

After today's game, its clear to me that Carter does not help us at all. Even if he's a little better offensively than Dudley or Pietrus, we need their defense more than his lackluster offense. Also we can use Childress's defense and hustle off the bench.

We should take the same stance with Carter as Detroit is taking with Hamilton. I know everyone's gonna say this could destroy chemistry or whatever but I think this is best for us to make a run to the playoffs.

 

[ninous26]

Just leave everything as is.. What we've got going now is working and I wouldn't mess with it

 

[BC867]

I voted that he should not play and here is my reason why.

If Carter is not capable of producing consistently, give him Childress' seat on the bench.

If he is capable, but turns it on and off when he wants to, even more reason to give him Childress' seat on the bench.

I don't think doing so would jeopardize the performances of the rest of the Orlando Three Musketeers -- Gortat and Pietrus. They have been making real contributions to the Suns success.

And I would expect that they know better than we do why Carter is hardly producing.

 

[Ninjafish]

Just leave everything as is.. What we've got going now is working and I wouldn't mess with it

You're not going to seriously call today's game working, are you? A blowout win against an awful team would be a sign that something is working. A lucky win against an awful team as well as going through long stretches without being to score is something else.

Vince shouldn't play. He's useless.

If he does play, the first time he shoots a contested 3 early in the clock should be an automatic benching for the rest of the game.

 

[elindholm]

If he does play, the first time he shoots a contested 3 early in the clock should be an automatic benching for the rest of the game.

That makes no sense. If you're going to play him at all, you might as well let him bomb away from the three-point line, because that's the only part of his offensive game that's even moderately effective.

 

[AfroSuns]

Just leave everything as is.. What we've got going now is working and I wouldn't mess with it

I agree, amazing how fans think they know everything.
We dont practice with the team and are nor privy to what they know. You can also tell that while he is stinking it up on offense, he is trying his darnedest on defense.
This is similar to Jefferson on the Spurs last season, now look what he is doing for them. I am not saying Vince will be here past this season but burying him on the bench wont help. Gentry is doing what he should do by sitting him deep in the fourth quarter of a close game.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think Carter should play but come off the bench. There are 2 people right now in our starting rotation that have no business being there.

 

[Proteus]

Have Carter play the 1st quarter and if he's actually hitting shots/getting to the free throw line then play him in the rest of the game. Otherwise have him stay on the bench for the rest of the game.

 

[sunsfan88]

I agree, amazing how fans think they know everything.
We dont practice with the team and are nor privy to what they know. You can also tell that while he is stinking it up on offense, he is trying his darnedest on defense.
This is similar to Jefferson on the Spurs last season, now look what he is doing for them. I am not saying Vince will be here past this season but burying him on the bench wont help. Gentry is doing what he should do by sitting him deep in the fourth quarter of a close game.

Except Carter was not sitting on the bench late in the 4th QTR. When our bench was doing GOOD, Gentry puts our worst player Carter into the game and boom our lead disappears. The Suns had to play 4 on 5 on both sides of the court whenever Carter was in the game.

He further proved what a piece of garbage is by f***ing up the inbounds play on the last play of the 4th QTR. It almost always worked with Richardson but Carter finds a way to screw it up. It results in Hill getting the 5 second violation and a waste of a crucial possesion.

Him getting benched or getting injured would help this team so much that I cant put it in words.

 

[Mainstreet]

Carter should be primarily played early in the first quarter and early in the third quarter while he is fresh. Sort of how Gentry has played Lopez in the past. When Carter is stiffens up, as I view it, he is not going to help the Suns.

 

[95pro]

Have Carter play the 1st quarter and if he's actually hitting shots/getting to the free throw line then play him in the rest of the game. Otherwise have him stay on the bench for the rest of the game.

im with this ^^^ guy.

if he's ON in the 1st, give him more minutes. if not, he's off pull him and dont decide to just play him crucial 4th qtr or OT minutes.

 

[desertdawg]

I just think we don't need to start him, this funny notion that we shouldn't start our best players/producers might hurt us in the long run. Carter can see some minutes off the bench, if he's is playing well, leave him in.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If we were to bench Carter today we'd most likely make the playoffs in the 8 spot and get swept. If we keep playing Carter as we have and he doesn't re-discover some of his game we probably head to the lottery. If we keep playing Carter as we have and he does re-discover some of his game we have a pretty fair chance of knocking off our first round opponent and a trip to the WCF and perhaps even beyond enters the realm of possibility (barely, but still???).

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If we keep playing Carter as we have and he does re-discover some of his game we have a pretty fair chance of knocking off our first round opponent and a trip to the WCF and perhaps even beyond enters the realm of possibility (barely, but still???).

You been huffing paint again Steve?

 

[jbeecham]

I'd be fine if Dudley just replaces him in the starting lineup & he comes off the bench at SG against backup players (with Pietrus as the backup SF). He might actually be able to do some good against backups & give the 2nd unit an extra ball handler.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You been huffing paint again Steve?

lol. Maybe I should have stressed the "if" and the "barely". It's not likely that Carter can recapture his selfish but superstar prime but he's shown glimpses of being that 2 guard we so desperately need. If he could do that consistently I really think we'd have an outside shot at a special year. Especially now that we may have solved our backup PG problem. All of that is assuming that Nash finishes strong. I really hope his recent shooting problems aren't a sign of a bigger problem.

Imagine what this team could do if we still had Jason Richardson for example. All told, we're stronger at the 4/5 spot than last years playoff run (with Amare and a less complete Frye). Nash, so far, is playing a fair bit better than he did in the second half of the season and playoffs last year. I figure Pietrus and Warrick can be at least a wash for the loss of Amundson and Brooks should be able to meet or exceed the average Dragic of last year's playoffs. Hill, if anything, is playing even better than last year and Dudley is still Dudley.

I certainly wouldn't make us the favorites to win a series but let's face it, without an engaged Carter we're probably long shots simply to make the playoffs. I don't really have a problem with just giving up on the guy and benching him but that's because I still would like to see us move on to the rebuild process. A successful playoff run (a series or 2) might convince management to try the band-aid approach for another season. But, looking solely at the opportunity this year presents, sticking with Carter in the hopes he rebounds is the wiser option, IMO.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

If we were to bench Carter today we'd most likely make the playoffs in the 8 spot and get swept. If we keep playing Carter as we have and he doesn't re-discover some of his game we probably head to the lottery. If we keep playing Carter as we have and he does re-discover some of his game we have a pretty fair chance of knocking off our first round opponent and a trip to the WCF and perhaps even beyond enters the realm of possibility (barely, but still???).

Good grief. This is from the same guy who was predicting the Suns as a bottom-five team two months ago. Yes, we're all happy with the Gortat trade, but do you really think it turned the Suns from a bottom-five team into a title contender? All it did was shift them from low-mediocre to high-mediocre.

 

[Chaz]

Start him.

Best to find out early if he is engaged and effective.


The best way to look at it IMO is that a benched Carter is completely useless. When Carter starts at least there is a chance he can be helpful. If not you have lost what, 5 or 10 minutes of game time?

VC doesn't strike me as a gunner off the bench. He has an big ego and needs to feel engaged and important even if he is ineffective in a particular game.

He won't be here next year so we might as well try to get what we can out of him while we can.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Good grief. This is from the same guy who was predicting the Suns as a bottom-five team two months ago. Yes, we're all happy with the Gortat trade, but do you really think it turned the Suns from a bottom-five team into a title contender? All it did was shift them from low-mediocre to high-mediocre.

Actually, I don't think I ever predicted them as a bottom five team (that I recall) if you're talking league wide. Before the season started, I predicted we would finish between 10th and 14th. Part of that was predicated on my belief that we would over-react to our poor start and drive Nash to the point of injury or exhaustion in order to compensate. I still worry that we've done that.

As for being a title contender, no, I don't think we're a title contender. I think that IF Carter was to suddenly begin playing at a near superstar level and IF Nash continues to play at the incredibly high level he's performed this year and IF Brooks re-invigorates our 2nd team offense that we then have an outside chance to advance and perhaps even win a title. That's a boatload of "if's" and as such, I don't see that as the same thing as proclaiming us to be a title contender. Do you?

Steve

 

[elindholm]

That's a boatload of "if's" and as such, I don't see that as the same thing as proclaiming us to be a title contender. Do you?

Then the statement is meaningless. You might as well say that "if" Frye makes 80% of his threes for the rest of the season, or "if" the league's other top 40 players all break their legs in the same week, or "if" Jesus Christ returns and decides he wants to suit up for the Suns for a couple of months before ending the world. Either your "ifs" add up to plausibility or they don't.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Then the statement is meaningless. You might as well say that "if" Frye makes 80% of his threes for the rest of the season, or "if" the league's other top 40 players all break their legs in the same week, or "if" Jesus Christ returns and decides he wants to suit up for the Suns for a couple of months before ending the world. Either your "ifs" add up to plausibility or they don't.

If I were a Miami Heat fan I would have come up with a similar scenario describing what would have to happen for my team to win the title a few years back. If I were a Rocket fan many years ago I would have done pretty much the same thing then and they won back to backs. The big "if" in my comment has to do with Vince Carter. It's not likely he'll bounce back but it wasn't likely Hill or Shaq would have had a resurgence either.

IOW, I think it falls more along the lines of Frye hitting 48% of his remaining 3's rather than the absurd scenarios you created.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

IOW, I think it falls more along the lines of Frye hitting 48% of his remaining 3's rather than the absurd scenarios you created.

Yeah, it sounds like we have dramatically different opinions of what Carter's problem is. Where some see poor motivation, which theoretically could reverse itself quickly under the right circumstances, I see a body that just can't perform at that level anymore. Sure, once in a while he'll have an unusual spring in his step, and everything will seem easier again, but any weekend warrior on the pickup courts knows that phenomenon.

 

[BC867]

If you're going to play him at all, you might as well let him bomb away from the three-point line, because that's the only part of his offensive game that's even moderately effective.

That says it all. One facet, moderately effective. Hardly a reason to be in the rotation when our team is trying to reach the playoffs.

As far as defensively, both Dudley and Pietrus are no slouches.

They've been better offensively than Carter has been. With no drop-off defensively. Again, no justification for Carter to remain in the rotation.

Turning it on when he feels like it, knowing he won't be here next year. Another reason for Carter to take Childress' place at the end of the bench.

The sooner, the better.

 

[desertdawg]

How about we only start him on Nationally televised games, or games that he is breaking some personal record, or playing one of his former teams. I jest but my point is he does tend to show up more for the games that are hyped up. So I guess I do like him starting if it is a playoff game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, it sounds like we have dramatically different opinions of what Carter's problem is. Where some see poor motivation, which theoretically could reverse itself quickly under the right circumstances, I see a body that just can't perform at that level anymore. Sure, once in a while he'll have an unusual spring in his step, and everything will seem easier again, but any weekend warrior on the pickup courts knows that phenomenon.

I think it's a little of both. I think the motivation/focus problem has been there forever. I also think he's having trouble getting his body to do what he wants it to do and I doubt that will change this season, if ever. However, our training staff has been known to pull a rabbit out of nowhere so I'll cling to that small hope.

Steve