Should we go after Braden Looper??

[devilfan02]

I just noticed that the Phillies are turning their attention to Gordon, Hoffman, or Looper as their replacement for Wagner. I know we have all talked about Hoffman coming here but why not Looper??? I know he struggled last year but he's worth a look. I'm not sure what he's demanding money wise but I thought I'd bring up the idea. We need as much depth in our pen as possible

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'm generally not a big fan of closers who can't strike anybody out. What we truly need is solid development out of the pitching coach because we have the arms in the bullpen. Mark Davis was just completely inept at helping them learn how to pitch.

 

[devilfan02]

I dont know. We have a couple good arms but our pen has been a complete mess the last two years. Our lack of depth (primarily due to below average relievers) has proved to be a real problem. Lyon, if he can remain healthy, is solid, Valverdes solid, Cormier is solid, Medders showed he could be great but only pitched around 25 innings while going back and forth from the minors to the bigs. Who knows whats going on with Aquino- he's a great talent but has been dissapointing. Villareal is all but done and Bruney absolutely sucks. I'm not sure what we're going to do with some of these farm guys (Nippert, Gosling). If they don'y make the rotation and we dont add relievers via FA, do we put them in the pen??? Plus, it's not like our pen has had the best luck with injuries the last couple of years. Look at last year: Lyon, Aquino, Villareal, Valverde all were hurt, most for the majority of the season. Then you add fat boy ortiz and Estes' injuries and that affects our pen too. I think Looper is def worth a look as we can use as much depth as possible. It seems he's not getting any demand and we could get him fairly cheap (although it is early in FA market). I don't want him as a closer cause I think we need to give Valverde the ball in the ninth for an entire season. The biggest problem, other than money (if it proves to be), seems to be if he is fine with not closing.....

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I dont know. We have a couple good arms but our pen has been a complete mess the last two years. Our lack of depth (primarily due to below average relievers) has proved to be a real problem. Lyon, if he can remain healthy, is solid, Valverdes solid, Cormier is solid, Medders showed he could be great but only pitched around 25 innings while going back and forth from the minors to the bigs. Who knows whats going on with Aquino- he's a great talent but has been dissapointing. Villareal is all but done and Bruney absolutely sucks. I'm not sure what we're going to do with some of these farm guys (Nippert, Gosling). If they don'y make the rotation and we dont add relievers via FA, do we put them in the pen??? Plus, it's not like our pen has had the best luck with injuries the last couple of years. Look at last year: Lyon, Aquino, Villareal, Valverde all were hurt, most for the majority of the season. Then you add fat boy ortiz and Estes' injuries and that affects our pen too. I think Looper is def worth a look as we can use as much depth as possible. It seems he's not getting any demand and we could get him fairly cheap (although it is early in FA market). I don't want him as a closer cause I think we need to give Valverde the ball in the ninth for an entire season. The biggest problem, other than money (if it proves to be), seems to be if he is fine with not closing.....

Our bullpen has been a mess, but it has little do do with the arms of the guys in it. Bruney, Aquino, Medders, and Valverde all throw in the mid-90s and all strike out more than a batter per inning. Those are the numbers you want in relief pitchers. But the problem with these guys is that while they can get some guys out with their fastballs, good hitters simply sit on their heater because they can't locate any other pitch effectively. Blame for this goes equally development, coaching, and the players themselves but I'd rathe see what a new pitching coach can do with these hard throwers than drop ridicuous money in an inflated market in what will turn out to be only a rebuilding year anyways.

 

[devilfan02]

Our bullpen has been a mess, but it has little do do with the arms of the guys in it. Bruney, Aquino, Medders, and Valverde all throw in the mid-90s and all strike out more than a batter per inning. Those are the numbers you want in relief pitchers. But the problem with these guys is that while they can get some guys out with their fastballs, good hitters simply sit on their heater because they can't locate any other pitch effectively. Blame for this goes equally development, coaching, and the players themselves but I'd rathe see what a new pitching coach can do with these hard throwers than drop ridicuous money in an inflated market in what will turn out to be only a rebuilding year anyways.

Like I said before, the only way we should consider signing Looper is if he comes cheap. You never know, he's not getting much attention. I've been impressed with most our relievers and if they can stay healthy we shouldbe much better. There are certain guys that are awful and I don't know how much coaching would help them (Bruney). KO's per nine is important but when they have a whip near 2 that means their doing other things bad as well. My whole point is that we need much more depth cause we can't hope that coaching will solve all are problems. Therefore, if we can get Looper (or even someone like Farnsworth) cheap, we should give him a look

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

But the reality of this free agent market is that relievers won't be cheap. The market has been set and mediocre guys are for whatever reason going to get paid. If we can get a guy like Farnsworth in here for cheap, I'm all for it but I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[devilfan02]

Me neither but I'm hoping they dont get too much demand. I saw Farnworths agent is uping their price after the BJ Ryan raping. Still, an above avg reliever like Looper is getting relatively no interest- he is a third and final option for Philly if Gordon or Trevor Hoffman don't sign. Worth a shot if it happens.

Relievers still left-

1) Gordon- Old and expensive
2) Hoffman- " "
3)Farnsworth- too expensive
4) Looper- who knows
5) Dotel- IMO, def worth a look. He is telling people that he is willing to be a setup man which is perfect for us. Could be cheap, only getting interest from Texas.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

I dont think Dotel is going to pitch this season due to the surgery he had.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I personally believe that there has been too much emphasis placed on the Dbacks sense of urgency for a closer.... What they need more than anything else is that veteran rubber-armed reliever who could pitch both in long-relief and also who could pitch several times throughout the course of the season on consecutive days w/out a fear of them sustaining injuries....

Julian Tavarez or Tom Gordon (despite his age) would fit that role perfectly or just re-signing Worrell (but it appears more than obvious that the Dbacks wont offer him a multi-year deal)....

However, if they actually wanted a closer, Todd Jones, could come cheap and suit the Dbacks quite well... True, he's 37, but he's never had any major arm problems and really had quite the comeback last year for the Marlins notching 40 saves while posting a sparkling 2.10 ERA and an impressive K/BB ratio... It wasnt a fluke year either since he is a former Fireman of the Year (did that for the Tigers in '97 IIRC).....

 

[devilfan02]

I said above that we don't need a closer. I would like to see Valverde get a full year at the closer position. Guys like Farnsworth and Dotel have said they are fine with being setup guys- just ideas i'm throwin out there. I'm not sure what kind of FA relievers are available since they dont get any attention.

 

[devilfan02]

I dont think Dotel is going to pitch this season due to the surgery he had.

ESPN.com rumor mill
Texas wants Dotel
Nov 27 - The Rangers are trying to sign relief pitcher Octavio Dotel, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

Dotel had reconstructive elbow surgery in June while with the Oakland A's. A deal for Dotel, who is expected to be ready in April, could get done at the end of the winter meetings, the Star-Telegram reports. However, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the Cardinals have shown interest in Dotel as well. His agent, Dan Horwits, said the Cardinals have called him regarding Dotel and that Dotel's willingness to be a setup man has attracted more interest

Looks like he's gonna pitch at some point next year. I didn't realize he had reconstructive surgery. We should def stay away.

 

[therealjp]

I would love to get Braden Looper myself. I think he would be a great set-up man to Valverde and would releinquish the fact that hes outta NY.

 

[The Commish]

So what happened to Lyon or Aquino? I mean I understand Lyon hasn't been healthy and Aquino is just getting back into it, but I think a SU man isn't too high on the priority list considering that we have both of these guys. Of course I can't forget about Papa Grande, aka P Grizzle, aka Jose Valverde.

Valverde
Lyon
Aquino


All of these guys are capable SU guys or Closers. I really don't see the need to spend money on a guy like Looper who simply isn't that good. Besides, if Looper was at least decent, don't you think a team like the Mets who are throwing money around like its confetti would be willing to retain him?

 

[devilfan02]

So what happened to Lyon or Aquino? I mean I understand Lyon hasn't been healthy and Aquino is just getting back into it, but I think a SU man isn't too high on the priority list considering that we have both of these guys. Of course I can't forget about Papa Grande, aka P Grizzle, aka Jose Valverde.

Valverde
Lyon
Aquino


All of these guys are capable SU guys or Closers. I really don't see the need to spend money on a guy like Looper who simply isn't that good. Besides, if Looper was at least decent, don't you think a team like the Mets who are throwing money around like its confetti would be willing to retain him?

They signed one of the best closers in the game (Wagner). My point is that Looper is not garnering much attention and we might have a chance to get him cheap. If the price is too high, forget about it. Your gonna tell me that Looper, if inserted in our bullpen, wouldn't be one of the best relievers we have?? I would say behind Valverde, yes. IMO, Looper isn't a "true closer" anyways and would be a good setup guy with Lyon. Before he went to NYM, he was one of the best setup guys in the bigs (with Fla) than moved to closer for a short period of time before signing with the Mets. When he went to NYM, most people thought he couldn't handle the pressure of closing in NY but I think it was because he's not a closer. As for our pen, Cormier was a stud last year and can validate himself this year. Medders was solid but didn't even pitch half a season. I stated in my original post of this thread that most our guys in the pen are good arms. However, most are injury plagued which leaves us with big problems. Who knows if Lyon is healthy. He prob is but his elbow always seems to be a problem. Aquino is a MAJOR question mark and in my opinion, we can't assume anything with him. Whenever he gets his shot, he comes up with the injury bug as well. Valverde is solid but also comes up with injuries at bad times. I know most other bullpens have injury problems due to obvious reasons, but it seems like ours goes to **** in the first month of every season. We def need more depth and I think Looper, if at a reasonable price, would be an addition.

 

[The Commish]

They signed one of the best closers in the game (Wagner). My point is that Looper is not garnering much attention and we might have a chance to get him cheap. If the price is too high, forget about it. Your gonna tell me that Looper, if inserted in our bullpen, wouldn't be one of the best relievers we have?? I would say behind Valverde, yes. IMO, Looper isn't a "true closer" anyways and would be a good setup guy with Lyon. Before he went to NYM, he was one of the best setup guys in the bigs (with Fla) than moved to closer for a short period of time before signing with the Mets. When he went to NYM, most people thought he couldn't handle the pressure of closing in NY but I think it was because he's not a closer. As for our pen, Cormier was a stud last year and can validate himself this year. Medders was solid but didn't even pitch half a season. I stated in my original post of this thread that most our guys in the pen are good arms. However, most are injury plagued which leaves us with big problems. Who knows if Lyon is healthy. He prob is but his elbow always seems to be a problem. Aquino is a MAJOR question mark and in my opinion, we can't assume anything with him. Whenever he gets his shot, he comes up with the injury bug as well. Valverde is solid but also comes up with injuries at bad times. I know most other bullpens have injury problems due to obvious reasons, but it seems like ours goes to **** in the first month of every season. We def need more depth and I think Looper, if at a reasonable price, would be an addition.

True, as long as the price is right I wouldn't have a problem with it either. I just don't want us to get into a bidding war for a guy that we might not necessarily need.

 

[Lefty]

Hell No!!! Looper would not help this team. The guy is way too inconsistent and will not come cheap. Valverde is our closer. The guy pitched great the last few months. Jose was hurt earlier in the year and was getting healthier as the season went on.

As for Lyon, I think we keep him if he has a good spring training. He was horrible when he came back fron his injury.

Maybe we'll give Jennie Finch's husband a shot.

 

[devilfan02]

I don't want him as a closer. If we can get him at a reasonable price, I think him and Lyon would be very good setup guys for Valverde. Plus, depth depth depth. The key is the price tag. No way if he wants too much but he's getting no demand right now. No to Mr. Finch, he sucks