"Significant announcement" @ 11a

[AZ Native]

I remember Assface. I don't know much about the history of the board but I think you brother is Cheese and writes in Hollywood but I am not sure what you do. I am sure it is more interesting than me, a Fed retiree, but would like to hear your story. I do enjoy your post though. I'm guessing you are about my son's age, 44.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I remember Assface. I don't know much about the history of the board but I think you brother is Cheese and writes in Hollywood but I am not sure what you do. I am sure it is more interesting than me, a Fed retiree, but would like to hear your story. I do enjoy your post though. I'm guessing you are about my son's age, 44.

Good guess. I'm 48. Cheese is the youngest of three brothers. I'm the oldest. The middle is brother who shall not post. Not much of a crazy backstory. We grew up in a sports crazy family in Phoenix. I'm an ERISA attorney for a registered investment advisory firm in Orange County. Brother who shall not post is an attorney in phx, where my folks still reside and still have four season tix to cardinals games. And cheese is a writer in Hollywood. And we know our sports. Consider ourselves realists. Back in the day we were considered the "darksiders" on the cards board, but the darkness was warranted. I believe we've shown during the good whis and BA years that we trumpet the success too. And I think that carries over to the Suns and dbacks and coyotes (for me, cheese kinda checks out on the dbacks if they're not good and never got behind the coyotes). Anyway you slice it we try to see things for what they are. For instance I haven't been a big sarver fan but I really like what we are doing now and so I give sarver some credit for allowing the break down and rebuild.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Having watched both teams since the early, I think it is true.

The Suns are easily one of the irrelevant teams in the NBA. Bad owner. Bad team. Fan apathy. I think McD is turning it around finally, but I have see that Sarver truly has to believe in this team.

Hard to argue with this right now. I think the future is finally starting to take form but the reality is our rebuild has ONE truly proven Star amongst the youngsters. I love the potential of Jackson and have hope for Chriss, but reality is until they start winning SOMETHING, we're just as irrelevant as the Boldin/Fitz Cards teams before That Super Bowl run.

No one outside Phoenix writes or even really cares about this team at this point.

And thats okay. Let's see if the youngsters start changing that this season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hard to argue with this right now. I think the future is finally starting to take form but the reality is our rebuild has ONE truly proven Star amongst the youngsters. I love the potential of Jackson and have hope for Chriss, but reality is until they start winning SOMETHING, we're just as irrelevant as the Boldin/Fitz Cards teams before That Super Bowl run.

No one outside Phoenix writes or even really cares about this team at this point.

And thats okay. Let's see if the youngsters start changing that this season.

I like what the Suns have done and I think they are probably one more good player added to the core before they are competitive.

Don't tank, but don't stupidly trade away assets to be competitive now. Maybe trade away Bledsoe if the trade legitimately adds valuable assets, but if not, keep him and he can help. The more I think about it, I would probably hang on to Knight instead of getting rid of picks.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think Jackson is a #2 star (Pippen role). Booker might be a #1, but is probably a #3 (Ray Allen role).

I do not think Chriss is star material. Bender can be a high functioning role player.

 

[Chaplin]

I think Jackson is a #2 star (Pippen role). Booker might be a #1, but is probably a #3 (Ray Allen role).

I do not think Chriss is star material. Bender can be a high functioning role player.

Interesting. You think Jackson will be a bigger star than Booker? That's pretty bold.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Interesting. You think Jackson will be a bigger star than Booker? That's pretty bold.

That's got to be considering Jackson improves his offense...considerably. I think Jackson will be good...a hustler and a scrapper...but I don't ever see him taking over a game and putting the team on his back like a true star does.

 

[SirStefan32]

Man, I think people forget that Booker is only 20 years old. I think he is so good that people forget he has barely cratched the surface of his full potential.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Jackson is a #2 star (Pippen role). Booker might be a #1, but is probably a #3 (Ray Allen role).

I do not think Chriss is star material. Bender can be a high functioning role player.

I think Booker and Jackson can both be FANTASTIC #2 guys... but we're still missing our Steph.

A legit title contending #1 needs to be able to completely dominate at least one end of the floor, in almost every aspect... pretty much on offense. And I mean not just play really well, I mean, he's got to be the floor general... starts the offense, is an initiator and can score at will. I think Book can be a Ray Allen, but don't think he's got the height advantage/handles/passing ability to dominate every facet of the floor on O like a Steph, LeBron, KD, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, etc. etc.

 

[SirStefan32]

He is 20 years old. 22 ppg, 42% from the field, including 36% from three, 83% from the line. 3.4 assist and 3.2 rebounds per game in his second year. He doesn't have the athleticism of Kobe Bryant, so he will probably not be THAT good, but those numbers at his age are insane. I think it's far too early to declare his ceiling is Ray Allan.

His numbers are comparable to Kobe's numbers his third and fourth year. Granted, there are big differences- Lakers did not suck back then like the Suns do now, for example, but the bottom line is that Book is impressive for someone who is 20 years old.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Interesting. You think Jackson will be a bigger star than Booker? That's pretty bold.

Its more about my doubts about Booker. Jackson is already an excellent defender, decent rebounder for his position, and an efficient scorer.

Booker has the ability to score a lot, but his efficiency is not that good overall. He has shown himself to be streaky in an odd way. His streaks seem to be a month or more at a time. If this team adds another scorer and Booker's usage goes down, will he seem so much like a star then?

Yes. He is only 20, hence my thought that Booker could end up being #1 type player, and if not a #3 type player in the Ray Allen mold. We just don't know yet where Booker will go from here.

 

[Phrazbit]

Its more about my doubts about Booker. Jackson is already an excellent defender, decent rebounder for his position, and an efficient scorer.

Booker has the ability to score a lot, but his efficiency is not that good overall. He has shown himself to be streaky in an odd way. His streaks seem to be a month or more at a time. If this team adds another scorer and Booker's usage goes down, will he seem so much like a star then?

Yes. He is only 20, hence my thought that Booker could end up being #1 type player, and if not a #3 type player in the Ray Allen mold. We just don't know yet where Booker will go from here.

He went on these massive runs of crazy scoring while being the only real scoring threat on the team. What he did last year was pretty silly. I think if we got some other talent around him then I think his efficiency would increase dramatically.

If Ray Allen, in his prime, is even your 2nd best player then you're contending for a title, flat out. If Ray Allen was in his prime in THIS version of the NBA, rather than the grind it out one he played much of his career in then he probably would have averaged close to 30 a game with ridiculous efficiency. I'd be fine if Booker became that player.

Also... when Ray Allen was Booker's current age he was still in college. Allen didn't have a season where he averaged 20 a game until his 4th year... and Ray Allen is still a lock for the Hall of Fame.

So, IMO you guys are selling Ray Allen short, it would hardly be disappointing if Booker became a parallel player, even though Booker is well ahead of that curve right now... and sky is still the limit for Booker.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He went on these massive runs of crazy scoring while being the only real scoring threat on the team. What he did last year was pretty silly. I think if we got some other talent around him then I think his efficiency would increase dramatically.

If Ray Allen, in his prime, is even your 2nd best player then you're contending for a title, flat out. If Ray Allen was in his prime in THIS version of the NBA, rather than the grind it out one he played much of his career in then he probably would have averaged close to 30 a game with ridiculous efficiency. I'd be fine if Booker became that player.

Also... when Ray Allen was Booker's current age he was still in college. Allen didn't have a season where he averaged 20 a game until his 4th year... and Ray Allen is still a lock for the Hall of Fame.

So, IMO you guys are selling Ray Allen short, it would hardly be disappointing if Booker became a parallel player, even though Booker is well ahead of that curve right now... and sky is still the limit for Booker.

Yeah I think people only remember celtics Allen. He was a great player earlier.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He is 20 years old. 22 ppg, 42% from the field, including 36% from three, 83% from the line. 3.4 assist and 3.2 rebounds per game in his second year. He doesn't have the athleticism of Kobe Bryant, so he will probably not be THAT good, but those numbers at his age are insane. I think it's far too early to declare his ceiling is Ray Allan.

His numbers are comparable to Kobe's numbers his third and fourth year. Granted, there are big differences- Lakers did not suck back then like the Suns do now, for example, but the bottom line is that Book is impressive for someone who is 20 years old.

I don't think anyone's doubting that at all. But i don't think he has Kobe's almost Jordan-like control of an offense and will never be the defender Kobe was in his prime.

And I don't think Ray Allen is a low ceiling. Ray Allen as a #1 in Seattle was able to make that team a very good 50 win #3 seed back in the 2004-5. He was a bona-fide STAR, but that team was really a pretender and everyone knew it. I think Allen was always better suited as an incredible #2 in his prime, which I think Booker can be also.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't think anyone's doubting that at all. But i don't think he has Kobe's almost Jordan-like control of an offense and will never be the defender Kobe was in his prime.

And I don't think Ray Allen is a low ceiling. Ray Allen as a #1 in Seattle was able to make that team a very good 50 win #3 seed back in the 2004-5. He was a bona-fide STAR, but that team was really a pretender and everyone knew it. I think Allen was always better suited as an incredible #2 in his prime, which I think Booker can be also.

Oh I agree. Booker doesn't have the physical tools to be dominant in the same way Kobe and Jordan were on either side of the court. That said, I have never seen a 20 year-old play as well as Booker, with the obvious exception of Lebron who is just a freak of nature. It is incredible just how good Booker is at just 20 years. He plays like a 28 year-old veteran. He is probably not going to be in the same category as Kobe, MJ, Lebron, and those guys, but those guys are once in a generation players.

I agree that Allen was an amazing player, but I think Booker could be better. As someone already pointed out, Allen didn't get to 20 points per game until he 4th season, and at Booker's age he was still in college. Booker is insanely good.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh I agree. Booker doesn't have the physical tools to be dominant in the same way Kobe and Jordan were on either side of the court. That said, I have never seen a 20 year-old play as well as Booker, with the obvious exception of Lebron who is just a freak of nature. It is incredible just how good Booker is at just 20 years. He plays like a 28 year-old veteran. He is probably not going to be in the same category as Kobe, MJ, Lebron, and those guys, but those guys are once in a generation players.

I agree that Allen was an amazing player, but I think Booker could be better. As someone already pointed out, Allen didn't get to 20 points per game until he 4th season, and at Booker's age he was still in college. Booker is insanely good.

won't disagree with any of that. But we all know to win a title, you gotta have those once or twice or three times in a generation player... or at least three of four players of what we hope Booker really turns into.

 

[pokerface]

won't disagree with any of that. But we all know to win a title, you gotta have those once or twice or three times in a generation player... or at least three of four players of what we hope Booker really turns into.

Yeah I agree with this up to a point. I mean the Spurs won multiple titles and were just as successful as any team and they only had one generational player in Duncan (with the exception of having David Robinson briefly with Duncan). So mostly in recent years it's been needing a HOF team to get it done but it's more the exception than the rule. HOF teams are extremely hard to build so let's not lose hope for our quest for a ring.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah I agree with this up to a point. I mean the Spurs won multiple titles and were just as successful as any team and they only had one generational player in Duncan (with the exception of having David Robinson briefly with Duncan). So mostly in recent years it's been needing a HOF team to get it done but it's more the exception than the rule. HOF teams are extremely hard to build so let's not lose hope for our quest for a ring.

I think you're actually agreeing with me. Every title team (save 2004 Pistons) need ONE generational player. I don't think Booker is that guy, so we'd need three or four Bookers if we can't get that generational guy.

 

[pokerface]

I think you're actually agreeing with me. Every title team (save 2004 Pistons) need ONE generational player. I don't think Booker is that guy, so we'd need three or four Bookers if we can't get that generational guy.

Yeah I think I misunderstood. I thought you meant we need more than one generational player.

 

[Hoop Head]

The style of the NBA is changing though. Who would have thought Steph Curry would be a 2 time MVP 5 years ago? I think Booker can be that generational talent because we don't know exactly what the next generation of players will be. It looks like it will be dominated by wings, which Booker is, but I don't think anyone can say for certain who the next big face of the NBA is. There are guys like Anthony Davis, The Greek Freak, and Porzingis who are highly touted but never break through. Booker on the other hand came from obscurity and is the face of our franchise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The style of the NBA is changing though. Who would have thought Steph Curry would be a 2 time MVP 5 years ago? I think Booker can be that generational talent because we don't know exactly what the next generation of players will be. It looks like it will be dominated by wings, which Booker is, but I don't think anyone can say for certain who the next big face of the NBA is. There are guys like Anthony Davis, The Greek Freak, and Porzingis who are highly touted but never break through. Booker on the other hand came from obscurity and is the face of our franchise.

What? The Greek freak came from nowhere also. And AD and unicorn are faces of their franchises also. I don't get what point you're trying to make.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The style of the NBA is changing though. Who would have thought Steph Curry would be a 2 time MVP 5 years ago? I think Booker can be that generational talent because we don't know exactly what the next generation of players will be. It looks like it will be dominated by wings, which Booker is, but I don't think anyone can say for certain who the next big face of the NBA is. There are guys like Anthony Davis, The Greek Freak, and Porzingis who are highly touted but never break through. Booker on the other hand came from obscurity and is the face of our franchise.

Steph is a once in a generation kinda thing... sorta like Nash. Expecting Booker to be that is hoping against hope. And as much as he's the "face of the franchise", pretty much NO ONE outside of phoenix and HARD CORE NBA fans knows who he is.

And Booker can't dominate like a wing because he doesn't have that next level athleticism/ability to create for others. Dude's a scorer... going to be a BEASTLY one, but I don't see the generational ability in other places. Maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell.

 

[pokerface]

Booker will be an all-star in all likelihood... whether or not he's the "second coming"...pfft.

 

[Hoop Head]

What? The Greek freak came from nowhere also. And AD and unicorn are faces of their franchises also. I don't get what point you're trying to make.

I had another 2-3 sentences in there that got cut off. I'll clarify here.

Once the Super Teams fall away, who knows what style will dominate but a wing player like Booker who can score from anywhere on the court and create his own shots will always be valuable in the league. More-so than someone like the Greek Freak or Porzingis because if the NBA gets more physical, I don't see Porzingis or Giannis adapting to that as well. I'm not saying they'll be bad but I don't see them being able to lead their team to contention. I think because of position and style of play, Booker is better equipped regardless of which style of play the league leans towards after the Warriors run is over. That is why I think Booker can be a generational talent when he's hitting his prime in 5-6 years. He's a top 5 SG in the league right now at 20 years old.

I don't think the "Super Team" setup that there is now will last that long. Once those get broken up it's questionable what style of basketball will dominate. All of the "super teams" over the last few years have played different styles, with the Celtics and their Big 3 playing more of a grind it out defense first style, the Heat overwhelming teams with having 2 superstars in Lebron and Wade in their prime supported by All Star's taking on role player duties. The Warriors are able to run and gun better than anyone and got better at that with the addition of Durant. The Cavs haven't really had an identity of their own other than play to Lebron's strengths. It seems whoever the champion is though that influences how other teams try and build their teams. When the Spurs when the title, everyone talks about the importance of 3 & D players, low post offensive players, and rim protectors. Now it's all about "positionless basketball" but that will change once Golden State gets taken down.


Guys like Steph and Nash are generational talents who stood out because their style of play fit that time in the league perfectly. Shooting guards like Booker though are always something a team is after. I don't think he'll be Kobe or Jordan but the tier below that is Ray Allen, Clyde Drexler, Dwayne Wade, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller. Those players can fit into any style that league is playing and excel, I think Booker can do that.

 

[Covert Rain]

OK with these moves. James Jones? Meh. Not for or against it. Sarver is just trying to surround himself with NBA guys and still trying to pick up the shambles of his reputation and the damage he did to the teams reputation around the league. Building a young exiting core and letting basketball guys do their thing will help.