Simeon "Hits" Paydirt

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
The reason that Tilly got all those tackles was because no one was worried about blocking him. Why? Because he was easy to side-step due to his lack of speed.

Adrian Wilson was going to take his job.

The first part I'm just going to skip.



Adrian Wilson is a better safety.

Shipp and Pittman both took TJ's job. Is Jones NFL caliber?
Not if you ask me. But I know you're a huge Jones guy, so I'm curious as to your take.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just got to throw my hat in the fray here. I loved Tillman's heart - but man am I glad he's not our starting safety anymore. He's doing what he wants to do - why don't we leave it at that - ah screw it . . . argue some more - I have nothing to do but watch.

 

[SECTION 11]

I'm glad we have Wilson as well. I'd rather have him than Tillman.

 

[SECTION 11]

I believe Hardy Nickerson holds the Tampa record for tackles in a season with 214.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Shipp and Pittman both took TJ's job. Is Jones NFL caliber?
Not if you ask me. But I know you're a huge Jones guy, so I'm curious as to your take.

I still think that Jones is an NFL-caliber running back. I think he was placed in a bad system (like the opposite of Stephen Davis playing in Washington last season) and the fans and press in this town were unforgiving to him. I think that Jones has NFL-caliber talent, but was unmotivated playing in AZ. I was saying towards the middle of 2002 that, like with Jake, it's probably best that he moves on. I think he ought to have a backup job, but in a place where he'll be able to use a starting spot as motivation. I'd love to see him in J-ville or maybe Chicago.

Tillman was incredibly motivated and tried really, really hard, but lacked talent. I've been on record on this board for not caring about "good locker room" guys, especially if you have a chance to get a player with massive talent (I'd take Simeon for KVB in a heartbeat). I think that a lot of heart and middling talent will get you a starting job in Div I college football, but has no place on my favorite NFL team. That's what practice squads are for, and that's where I think Tillman deserves to be. Aeneas being good covered a lot of Tillman's deficencies, because Tillman didn't have to cover anyone or provide a lot of help.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I believe Hardy Nickerson holds the Tampa record for tackles in a season with 214.

Yeah, but it's in a different system, where Sapp's push would funnel RBs to the LBs. I've written about my thoughts about Tampa's D system before. If you would rather have McKinnon in his prime (last two years) than El Dragone in his prime (late nineties in Tampa), then you'd probably want Tilly as your starting Safety.

 

[SECTION 11]

You're take on TJ is bewildering.
Shipp was placed in the same crappy system and he produced. No excuses needed.


How do you make 14 tackles a game on NFL running backs and receivers and not qualify as NFL material?
His pass coverage was below par, his run support was above par. Overall, an average at worst player getting no help from a crap defense.

Williams had to cover for Tillman in pass coverage just like Tillman had to cover for Rice on run support.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Yeah, but it's in a different system, where Sapp's push would funnel RBs to the LBs. I've written about my thoughts about Tampa's D system before. If you would rather have McKinnon in his prime (last two years) than El Dragone in his prime (late nineties in Tampa), then you'd probably want Tilly as your starting Safety.

I don't really want McKinnon at all.

 

[Cheesebeef]

FIGHT! FIGHT! YUMA! YUMA!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
You're take on TJ is bewildering.
Shipp was placed in the same crappy system and he produced. No excuses needed.

No, I don't think you see what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that the Offensive system from 2002 is more suited to Shipp's style (straight ahead, between the tackles), than it is to Jones's (silky smooth, counters, cuts, edge/off tackle). Just as the Fun 'N Gun wasn't suited to Davis' punding style in Washington.

I don't think that strong safeties should be primarily used in run support, I think that they should cover and blitz, a la John Lynch (who additionally is a great run-stuffer). I don't think Tillman was "above average" at anything, except waiting in the middle of the field for the RB to get to him.

Rice played on the opposite side of the field from Tilly. Dex "covered" for Simeon's "lack of run coverage" in Tampa last season. Kwammie played that role in AZ. Wadsworth played on the Strong side.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by kerouac9
No, I don't think you see what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that the Offensive system from 2002 is more suited to Shipp's style (straight ahead, between the tackles), than it is to Jones's (silky smooth, counters, cuts, edge/off tackle).

Dude...I can't believe you just said "Jones" and "silky smooth" in the same sentence...

pitiful...just plain pitiful...

 

[SECTION 11]

Bill Bates couldn't turn and run with NFL WR's either. All he did was tackle the guy with the ball (occassionally whiffing on a kill shot). Somehow his 701 tackles and special teams play made him NFL caliber, despite his lack of coverage skills.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Bill Bates couldn't turn and run with NFL WR's either. All he did was tackle the guy with the ball (occassionally whiffing on a kill shot). Somehow his 701 tackles and special teams play made him NFL caliber, despite his lack of coverage skills.

Well, I don't know who that is, but my guess is that the NFL was a lot different then.

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You like Tilly and think he should start as a Strong Safety in the NFL. I want him on my practice squad.

Ken: I'm sorry, I'm a Jones apologist. I like the kid, and I want to see him be a star for another team and make all of you eat your words. I'm upfront about it.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Well, I don't know who that is, but my guess is that the NFL was a lot different then.

You've never heard of Bill Bates?

Is there a Play Station Madden Classic somewhere?

He's Pat Tillman, Dallas style.


I want Jones to fail miserably. Only because he's a chump on the field, and a five year old off of it.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
You've never heard of Bill Bates?

Is there a Play Station Madden Classic somewhere?

????????

<Must've been a 'Husker...>

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
You've never heard of Bill Bates?

Is there a Play Station Madden Classic somewhere?

??????

Must've been a 'Husker...

EDIT: I don't know what happened with that last post.

 

[SECTION 11]

That's funky. What's happening up there?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
That's funky. What's happening up there?

I don't know. I put the "Husker" comment in carrots (the little sideways "bitey"/"less than/greater than" homeys), and everything went to hell. There should be a warning.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Well, I don't know who that is, but my guess is that the NFL was a lot different then.

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You like Tilly and think he should start as a Strong Safety in the NFL. I want him on my practice squad.

I already said I'd rather have Wilson.

 

[SECTION 11]

We probably are going to have to agree to disagree.

I like players that can run on offense and stop the run on defense, and you like whoever's on the cover of Madden's.

My guess is that you have a whole lot of Thomas Jones rookie cards and are clinging to the hope that he's not the bust that the rest of the NFL thinks he is.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Well, I don't know who that is, but my guess is that the NFL was a lot different then.

Ken: I'm sorry, I'm a Jones apologist. I like the kid, and I want to see him be a star for another team and make all of you eat your words. I'm upfront about it.

Does that mean that Butkus, Nietschke, Nagurski, Payton, Larry Wilson etc. couldn't play today? How different is football now than 8 or 10 years ago when Bates played?

Sorry, some guys can probably get by with little talent and more heart, but Jones has NO heart. You can't make it in the NFL without heart.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
My guess is that you have a whole lot of Thomas Jones rookie cards and are clinging to the hope that he's not the bust that the rest of the NFL thinks he is.

The fact that this is true has not bearing on the fact that I want to see TJ succeed.

Renz: I think that football today is a lot different than the NFL 10 years ago. Players are bigger, stronger, faster, free agency, salary cap, etc. Hall of Famers are hall of famers, but a strong safety who can't cover the pass and only is serviceable at run support is going to have a hard time finding a job on your average NFL team. Rodney Harrison was one of those, and he's not a starter in New England, and didn't get a sniff anywhere else.

Jones played gutty football (those ankle sprains hurt) before he broke his hand. Kid has heart and wants to play. He's the next Garrison Hearst.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Hall of Famers are hall of famers, but a strong safety who can't cover the pass and only is serviceable at run support is going to have a hard time finding a job on your average NFL team. Rodney Harrison was one of those, and he's not a starter in New England, and didn't get a sniff anywhere else.

Wasn't Rodney Harrison on the NFL's all 90's decade team?

Funny how his season tackle totals always get thrown into his yearly highlights.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Ken: I'm sorry, I'm a Jones apologist. I like the kid, and I want to see him be a star for another team and make all of you eat your words. I'm upfront about it.

Don't get me wrong, I too hope Thomas Jones does well (I wish it was here, but what can you do).

I just never seen his style as being "silky smooth", not here or back at U of V...I've always seen him as a "cutter" or "slasher" style back.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
WTF? This thread is almost 2 months old

You're right, there won't be any discussion on this old thing.