Simmons is a safety, not a linebacker

[Finito]

Except over his college career most of his snaps have been at SS or Slot CB.

You know why he's "bigger than your average SS"? Because there's never been anyone else with that combination of size and speed.

You watch a Devin White highlight reel, or a Roquan Smith highlight reel and you will see them doing typical linebacker things. You don't get any of that on Simmon reels. All his best plays are from Slot Corner or SS, with the occasional unguarded edge rush. The snaps where he is at linebacker, he usual dropping into coverage like a strong safety anyway.

He's a smart kid, maybe he can pick up those instincts quicker than say Reddick has (or hasn't) but they certainly aren't there now.

so odd that they would give the Butkus award for the nations top linebacker to a guy who played safety

stop spreading fake news. You seem determined to die on this cross

 

[BritCard]

so odd that they would give the Butkus award for the nations top linebacker to a guy who played safety

stop spreading fake news. You seem determined to die on this cross

I don't know. How do you give the Butkus award to someone who only played 220 snaps at the position? Do you think any linebacker should win it with only 220 snaps there?

And I'm not spreading fake news. I'm saying that Simmons has done nothing at linebacker. His highlight reels are almost exclusively at SS or Slot and even when lined up at linebacker he's almost exclusively then falling back into coverage like a slot or SS.

You find me something that looks like the highlight reels of Devin White, Roquan Smith, Jaylon Smith etc

Show me him come downhill from a LB position, shed a Guard and fight through for a sack. Or fill a gap at the LOS to stop a run.

Much of what he does well from the LB spot is in the open field or dropping into coverage. Very little contact involved.

He has all the physical talent. I don't see the mental side at linebacker or the tape to back it up. He would however be an All Pro level SS.

 

[juza76]

Yes he can play safety and he can play linebacker
Adrian Wilson did the same
Likely He is better in coverage then him and he is a 240lb guy
I thought is a plus having a guy with that speed and lenght doing different things
I don't really care in which position will be listed
He is an all around defensive player

 

[Finito]

I don't know. How do you give the Butkus award to someone who only played 220 snaps at the position? Do you think any linebacker should win it with only 220 snaps there?

And I'm not spreading fake news. I'm saying that Simmons has done nothing at linebacker. His highlight reels are almost exclusively at SS or Slot and even when lined up at linebacker he's almost exclusively then falling back into coverage like a slot or SS.

You find me something that looks like the highlight reels of Devin White, Roquan Smith, Jaylon Smith etc

Show me him come downhill from a LB position, shed a Guard and fight through for a sack. Or fill a gap at the LOS to stop a run.

Much of what he does well from the LB spot is in the open field or dropping into coverage. Very little contact involved.

He has all the physical talent. I don't see the mental side at linebacker or the tape to back it up. He would however be an All Pro level SS.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

415 snaps at LB and the Butkus award for the nations best linebacker. The reason why you give it to him is because he was.

Led Clemson in tackles, TACKLES FOR LOSS, Sacks

that’s tells me he’s coming down hill a lot.

I legit have no choice but to think your trolling. How you keep being presented with FACTS and you just keep making up stuff is beyond me. You really need to stop this your making yourself look really bad.

you keep being presented with facts and you keep making stuff up. I understand you have a stance on this and your wrong, but to keep fighting it is insane. I really don’t understand. Your pretty much trolling

 

[GuernseyCard]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

415 snaps at LB and the Butkus award for the nations best linebacker. The reason why you give it to him is because he was.

Led Clemson in tackles, TACKLES FOR LOSS, Sacks

that’s tells me he’s coming down hill a lot.

I legit have no choice but to think your trolling. How you keep being presented with FACTS and you just keep making up stuff is beyond me. You really need to stop this your making yourself look really bad.

you keep being presented with facts and you keep making stuff up. I understand you have a stance on this and your wrong, but to keep fighting it is insane. I really don’t understand. Your pretty much trolling

#11 - is a beauty!

As for BritCard - he's the annoying guy at your local pub who read a book and thinks he wrote it.

 

[BritCard]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

415 snaps at LB and the Butkus award for the nations best linebacker. The reason why you give it to him is because he was.

Led Clemson in tackles, TACKLES FOR LOSS, Sacks

that’s tells me he’s coming down hill a lot.

I legit have no choice but to think your trolling. How you keep being presented with FACTS and you just keep making up stuff is beyond me. You really need to stop this your making yourself look really bad.

you keep being presented with facts and you keep making stuff up. I understand you have a stance on this and your wrong, but to keep fighting it is insane. I really don’t understand. Your pretty much trolling

Mate, I'm not sure what the highlight clip is supposed to show. Most of it isn't from linebacker.

Budda Baker had 104 solo tackles from free safety last year. His tackles don't tell you anything about coming downhill because most of his tackles were from other positions anyway.

I'm not sure where you get 415 linebacker snaps from. PFF, the only source that counts as far as I know says 239. Even 415 would be less than half a seasons worth.

And it's funny how people keep saying I'm trolling yet can't show me anything to back up their opinion. Where's the linebacker highlight reel? I've watched all his stuff I can find. The VAAAAAAST majority of it isn't at linebacker or doing linebacker type things.

If I watch the tape of the top linebackers drafted the last 5 years I can see Simmons does some of that stuff in coverage, but not the downhill stuff really at all.

I'm not saying he can't play it, or he will be bad at it. I'm saying the evidence isn't there. It's another projection like Reddick based off physical attributes. The evidence is there however that he would be a superb SS / Slot corner.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Jones will play on the edge.

It is time to do what I did, and throw the traditional 11 defensive positions out the window.

I know its tough, it was hard for me, but its time.

Simmons could stand in the same place in a formation and be called LB, CB, or S mattering on the terminology used for that defense.

There are times Chandler Jones plays DT, times he plays DE and times he plays OLBer.

They all move around theses days

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

This. Named positions are really a semi-ancient concept made more for fans than players or coaches or gms. At this point very few players on defense consistently play a traditional role. Man corners, nose tackles and maybe deep free safeties do so. Everyone else plays hybrid movable positions. As long as each player understands the defensive alignment (necessary for both traditional and creative roles) and understands their specific role in each package they have a chance to succeed. That success will be more predicated in whether their physical and mental traits allow them to perform their individual role than trying to shoehorn them into traditional descriptors.

 

[kerouac9]

This. Named positions are really a semi-ancient concept made more for fans than players or coaches or gms. At this point very few players on defense consistently play a traditional role. Man corners, nose tackles and maybe deep free safeties do so. Everyone else plays hybrid movable positions. As long as each player understands the defensive alignment (necessary for both traditional and creative roles) and understands their specific role in each package they have a chance to succeed. That success will be more predicated in whether their physical and mental traits allow them to perform their individual role than trying to shoehorn them into traditional descriptors.

I think that this is going a little far. Every coach at every level will tell you that they're teachers first, and position names basically set the baseline for what is being taught to that group — sometimes the focus is on positioning (0-technique through Wide-9 for defensive linemen, for example), sometimes the focus is more broadly on role (safety vs. cornerback w/r/t the defensive backfield).

Every play has to have defined roles and responsibilities, and teams develop vocabularies to help define them. Now, I've read somewhere that Troy Polamalu was allowed to line up anywhere he wanted in the Pittsburgh scheme, and everyone around him had to re-fit their responsibilities based on where he saw an opportunity to make plays.

It would be odd to hand that kind of responsibility over to Simmons in a quarantine-shortened offseason, but it's possible that we'll see that happen pretty quickly, which will mean it will be harder to integrate young players into the defense (because it's more complex and you need the reps), but could be more effective at creating opportunities for the entire defense to be better.

 

[DumboD]

So we may never agree on safety or linebacker for Simmons. He was named an All-American as a LB. I think his abilities likely most fit the following definition - The weak side linebacker, or WILL, is the primary playmaker of the defense and got his name because he is typically positioned in the middle of the defense (more or less). He generally lines up 3-5 yards off the line of scrimmage and covers (lines up over) the guard to the weak side of the offensive formation.

I doubt the coaches are having this argument on the correct labelling of a versatile, talented player. As has been argued, he can be lined up in many different places.....but dare I go out on another limb, and say he will primarily be a weak side linebacker who can also be moved around.

 

[Finito]

Mate, I'm not sure what the highlight clip is supposed to show. Most of it isn't from linebacker.

Budda Baker had 104 solo tackles from free safety last year. His tackles don't tell you anything about coming downhill because most of his tackles were from other positions anyway.

I'm not sure where you get 415 linebacker snaps from. PFF, the only source that counts as far as I know says 239. Even 415 would be less than half a seasons worth.

And it's funny how people keep saying I'm trolling yet can't show me anything to back up their opinion. Where's the linebacker highlight reel? I've watched all his stuff I can find. The VAAAAAAST majority of it isn't at linebacker or doing linebacker type things.

If I watch the tape of the top linebackers drafted the last 5 years I can see Simmons does some of that stuff in coverage, but not the downhill stuff really at all.

I'm not saying he can't play it, or he will be bad at it. I'm saying the evidence isn't there. It's another projection like Reddick based off physical attributes. The evidence is there however that he would be a superb SS / Slot corner.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

oh idk first page of this thread from PFF. Stupid or trolling at this point.

keep ignoring facts and making up random stuff

 

[HoodieBets]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

oh idk first page of this thread from PFF. Stupid or trolling at this point.

keep ignoring facts and making up random stuff

116+299=415

The math checks out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[az jam]

What an enjoyable disagreement.

 

[Tacticool Nerd]

Not sure if it's ignorance or trolling at this point.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think that this is going a little far. Every coach at every level will tell you that they're teachers first, and position names basically set the baseline for what is being taught to that group — sometimes the focus is on positioning (0-technique through Wide-9 for defensive linemen, for example), sometimes the focus is more broadly on role (safety vs. cornerback w/r/t the defensive backfield).

Every play has to have defined roles and responsibilities, and teams develop vocabularies to help define them. Now, I've read somewhere that Troy Polamalu was allowed to line up anywhere he wanted in the Pittsburgh scheme, and everyone around him had to re-fit their responsibilities based on where he saw an opportunity to make plays.

It would be odd to hand that kind of responsibility over to Simmons in a quarantine-shortened offseason, but it's possible that we'll see that happen pretty quickly, which will mean it will be harder to integrate young players into the defense (because it's more complex and you need the reps), but could be more effective at creating opportunities for the entire defense to be better.

You heard correct re: Polamalu. Peyton and Brady will say that the reason Polamalu was so tough is because he was never where he was supposed to be. Bascially, they would make their pre-snap reads, identify where the ball should go, and when they released the ball they would see that Troy had vacated his responsibility.

 

[BritCard]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

oh idk first page of this thread from PFF. Stupid or trolling at this point.

keep ignoring facts and making up random stuff

220, 290, 400, who cares?

Clemson average 69 defensive snaps per game. Thats 4.3 games he's played at linebacker.

If any other team drafted a guy top 10 to play linebacker that played 95% of his college career at safety and slot corner and had 4 games in his career at linebacker you would be saying they were crazy.

And before you say the one single outlier in Urlacher, he didn't play safety in college. Long created a position similar to Bucs "$ backer". He played a linebacker/safety hybrid they called a "Lobo backer" for most of his career there and he practiced with the linebackers.

So again,

Simmons are extremely talented
All that talent has been shown predominantly at SS and Slot corner.
He has 4 games worth of linebacker snaps.
There's nothing on his tape the screams he's a great linebacker right now.

He may well be, but it's a projection and personally I don't want to waste another talent dicking around trying to make them good at a position they haven't shown they were good at in college. Just play him SS and reap the rewards.

 

[BritCard]

Not sure if it's ignorance or trolling at this point.

Says 27 post guy

In my 1000 posts here has anyone ever known me to troll?

 

[BritCard]

You heard correct re: Polamalu. Peyton and Brady will say that the reason Polamalu was so tough is because he was never where he was supposed to be. Bascially, they would make their pre-snap reads, identify where the ball should go, and when they released the ball they would see that Troy had vacated his responsibility.

Which you can do with a SS. Not so much with an inside linebacker that has gap responsibility.

 

[Chopper0080]

Which you can do with a SS. Not so much with an inside linebacker that has gap responsibility.

I was responding to a comment regarding Troy and not attempting to relate it to Simmons. Sorry if the digression from the main topic wasn't apparent.

 

[cardncubfan]

Says 27 post guy

In my 1000 posts here has anyone ever known me to troll?

Quantity does not equal quality.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Britcard, this really isnt complex... which position did he register the most snaps at?

Linebacker, safety, or corner?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Britcard, this really isnt complex... which position did he register the most snaps at?

Linebacker, safety, or corner?

Or better yet...... Watch this video and tell me how many times he was lined up in a two-deep or three-deep safety look only to morph into the fasted Linebacker you have ever seen. It's one of his many elite level assets.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Quantity does not equal quality.

He isn't trolling. He has a difference of opinion.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Britcard, this really isnt complex... which position did he register the most snaps at?

Linebacker, safety, or corner?

I don't even agree with Brit, but this is oversimplification at its finest. He believes that he will get most of his snaps as a safety and is projected to be a safety. I don't agree, but he isn't trolling.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I don't even agree with Brit, but this is oversimplification at its finest. He believes that he will get most of his snaps as a safety and is projected to be a safety. I don't agree, but he isn't trolling.

+1

He's expressed himself strongly. Nothing wrong with that. But it opens you up to opposite opinions.

 

[BritCard]

Quantity does not equal quality.

That must be why I have as many likes as posts.

Is this what we do round here now on a "discussion" forum? Instead of debating and discussing we just call people trolls?