Simmons is a safety, not a linebacker

[jf-08]

I don’t want to see him taking snaps from Jalen Thompson, who really impressed me last year, maybe even more than Budda. Ideally for me he lines up as an ILB with Hicks and when we are in nickel Kennard comes off for Murphy.

Peters-Phillips-Allen
Kennard-Simmons-Hicks-Jones
Alford-Baker-J.Thompson-Peterson

that feels pretty good to me. Also hoping Murphy can take a step forward next year and be consistent with those flashes he showed last year and take Alfords job.

My take:

Peters-Phillips-Allen-Simmons

Kennard-Hicks-Jones-Simmons

Simmons

Alford-Baker-J.Thompson-Peterson-Simmons

Simmons

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That is the million dollar question, who's snaps will Simmons take the most? You would think Jalen Thompson, but he started to really play well the last 3-4 games in 2019, seemed like he was in on almost every play in those games. Maybe Simmons will just rotate between Thompson & Campbell? If Campbell or Thompson can't keep TE's in check (Campbell will have that responsibility more than Thompson) Simmons gets more of their snaps? VJ has to find a way to get Simmons on the field though, there's too many things he can do to help our defense.

This is what I am thinking about too. How many snaps will he see, and who's snaps will he be taking.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

False snap counts?

He's not playing outside linebacker for us is he? Seeing as in a 3-4 your OLB's are up at the LOS as Edge rushers. So if he's a linebacker he's an inside linebacker. So why would you could his reps as outside backer in college as relevant to what he will be doing for us?

well the title of your thread is linebacker vs safety... you didnt identify OLB vs MLB or FS vs SS....

If I cant count OLB snaps towards "linebacker snaps" then why are you allowed to count his FS snaps towards his "safety snaps"???

and in a 3-4 your OLBs are not at the LOS as edge rushers every single play... some plays yes, some plays no... you're aware of that and just being dishonest... cmon dude.

this conversation is so dumb. Lets just wait a year and see how his snap counts turn out... I GUARANTEE HE HAS MORE SNAPS AT LINEBACKER OVER SAFETY... I'll put 100 bucks on that with you if you're interested $$$

 

[GuernseyCard]

well the title of your thread is linebacker vs safety... you didnt identify OLB vs MLB or FS vs SS....

If I cant count OLB snaps towards "linebacker snaps" then why are you allowed to count his FS snaps towards his "safety snaps"???

and in a 3-4 your OLBs are not at the LOS as edge rushers every single play... some plays yes, some plays no... you're aware of that and just being dishonest... cmon dude.

this conversation is so dumb. Lets just wait a year and see how his snap counts turn out... I GUARANTEE HE HAS MORE SNAPS AT LINEBACKER OVER SAFETY... I'll put 100 bucks on that with you if you're interested $$$

81.02 Pound sterling.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

81.02 Pound sterling.

Lets ink the bet Britcard!! wake up you sleepy redcoat loser converts to the winners currency and ships it over the pond. unless you're on venmo or apple pay.

 

[Proximo]

At last, some actual constructive discussion.

The argument so far has been he can still cover tight ends, but he's going to play WEAK side linebacker.

We can still move him around and do different things with him even though as an inside linebacker he has designated gap responsibility. If you want to move him around to confuse the offense then SS is the position like Polamalu, Wilson, Badger etc

Also apparently his snaps at outside linebacker in college count even though he will be an inside linebacker here.

As I started out with, I can't see any other outcome that Simmons takes snaps away from Jalen and Murphy with Hicks and Campbell at ILB. Jalen was ok, he wasn't great. He just looked better in a bad defense. Simmons is a much better strong safety.

We play several teams that use a wide TE on passing downs. That's going to be Simmons a bunch of the time in the slot. The only time I see him at ILB instead of Campbell is on obvious passing downs where the offense doesn't have a wide TE or a TE at all. For now anyway.

I'm not saying in a year or two Simmons he can't move to ILB full time but I can't help feel it would be a waste because you simply can't be as flexible with a guy at ILB as you can with a guy at SS. The star of our defense (when healthy) through the Todd Bowles years was Tyrann Mathieu who from SS could do everything. Our inside Linebackers were Minter and Buc. Buc was out of the league by 26 and Minter hasn't started a game since he was 26.

Simmons can contribute much more to this defense from SS than linebacker.

But as others seem to not want to discuss the football merits I'm happy to move on from this thread.

We can revisit it game 1 when Hicks and Campbell at at ILB and Simmons is playing the Badger role.

I think he is going to primarily take snaps from Campbell.

I also think he will take some third down snaps from Kennard, some from Thompson, and even probably some from Murphy.

Campbell is not that good of a player. His coverage score from PFF is actually pretty low, and many Falcons fans claimed he got lost out on the field frequently. In fact the impression I got, is he is a bigger more athletic version of Reddick.

 

[Rain Man]

With the free agency I think the Cards definitely want to fix our defense.

In the draft IMHO think the same thing. Other than the bpa you fall back on team needs.

A lot of defensive players are gonna be left out.

So Simmonds is what?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

At last, some actual constructive discussion.

The argument so far has been he can still cover tight ends, but he's going to play WEAK side linebacker.

We can still move him around and do different things with him even though as an inside linebacker he has designated gap responsibility. If you want to move him around to confuse the offense then SS is the position like Polamalu, Wilson, Badger etc

Also apparently his snaps at outside linebacker in college count even though he will be an inside linebacker here.

As I started out with, I can't see any other outcome that Simmons takes snaps away from Jalen and Murphy with Hicks and Campbell at ILB. Jalen was ok, he wasn't great. He just looked better in a bad defense. Simmons is a much better strong safety.

We play several teams that use a wide TE on passing downs. That's going to be Simmons a bunch of the time in the slot. The only time I see him at ILB instead of Campbell is on obvious passing downs where the offense doesn't have a wide TE or a TE at all. For now anyway.

I'm not saying in a year or two Simmons he can't move to ILB full time but I can't help feel it would be a waste because you simply can't be as flexible with a guy at ILB as you can with a guy at SS. The star of our defense (when healthy) through the Todd Bowles years was Tyrann Mathieu who from SS could do everything. Our inside Linebackers were Minter and Buc. Buc was out of the league by 26 and Minter hasn't started a game since he was 26.

Simmons can contribute much more to this defense from SS than linebacker.

But as others seem to not want to discuss the football merits I'm happy to move on from this thread.

We can revisit it game 1 when Hicks and Campbell at at ILB and Simmons is playing the Badger role.

I've been reading this thread, all the back & forth about his position. You've made good points, I respect your opinion & points. At the end of the day, Simmons just makes plays, his athletic ability, speed, instincts, IQ & everything will get him on the field. I'm not gonna say he's a LB, SS, ILB, SC or whatever, he's a football player that makes plays in space with speed. I care not one bit what position they put him at, as long as he gets his snaps & I know he will. He will play box safety & both LB positions imo, cover the TE & even play some slot corner depending on the matchup. I've watched him many times shoot the gap at Clemson on delayed blitzes, he either brought the QB down or chased him into a negative play. He's just that damn good. As far as Jalen Thompson goes.............? When VJ simplified the calls/assignments in our defense, Thompson seemed to take off. The last 3-4 games him & BB made tackles, I may be a little more excited about Thompson's future on this team than you are & I think eventually you will see the kid is better than you think? Correct me if I'm wrong & you do have high hopes for Thompson?

 

[BritCard]

I think he is going to primarily take snaps from Campbell.

I also think he will take some third down snaps from Kennard, some from Thompson, and even probably some from Murphy.

Campbell is not that good of a player. His coverage score from PFF is actually pretty low, and many Falcons fans claimed he got lost out on the field frequently. In fact the impression I got, is he is a bigger more athletic version of Reddick.

I'm no fan of Campbell. I don't think he's very good in coverage. But also VJ said he was their primary defensive FA target. So I don't see them paying him $6m almost all guaranteed, to sit on the bench.

 

[BritCard]

I've been reading this thread, all the back & forth about his position. You've made good points, I respect your opinion & points. At the end of the day, Simmons just makes plays, his athletic ability, speed, instincts, IQ & everything will get him on the field. I'm not gonna say he's a LB, SS, ILB, SC or whatever, he's a football player that makes plays in space with speed. I care not one bit what position they put him at, as long as he gets his snaps & I know he will. He will play box safety & both LB positions imo, cover the TE & even play some slot corner depending on the matchup. I've watched him many times shoot the gap at Clemson on delayed blitzes, he either brought the QB down or chased him into a negative play. He's just that damn good. As far as Jalen Thompson goes.............? When VJ simplified the calls/assignments in our defense, Thompson seemed to take off. The last 3-4 games him & BB made tackles, I may be a little more excited about Thompson's future on this team than you are & I think eventually you will see the kid is better than you think? Correct me if I'm wrong & you do have high hopes for Thompson?

I agree with all that, I just don't think he going to do any of it from the tradition 2 linebacker spots in a 3-4. He's going to be SS in base and whatever word you want to use to describe basically the same position in nickel... nickel linebacker / slot DB. I don't see him taking the majority of snaps from Hicks or Campbell. I think he takes most snaps from Thompson / Murphy (unless Murphy plays outside).

I have no real opinion on Jalen. I think he made some nice plays towards the end but also that the praise was a little overblown. Too early to say what he will be.

 

[BritCard]

I've scanned the NFL rulebook, and I didn't see this in there. It seems like this happens ALL THE TIME. You can also follow a running back into the slot (or even the outside!) when if and when he motions out there.

If the offense is in a 11-personnel base formation and a TE flexes out, you can use either Simmons or the safety to take the coverage responsibility. You don't really need 2 run-stuffing ILBs in a 3-4; Hicks can fill the hole.

I'm not sure why you insist on making this more complicated than it needs to be. Daryl Washington got swallowed up at the point of attack, as well.

I didn't mean he can't line up over a TE because of rules. I meant linebackers don't line up in man over TE's, extremely rarely at least.

Let's take a neutral situation. Say, 2nd and 8. Run and pass are both options. You don't take one of your ILB's out from between the tackles and leave a giant hole to run through so he can line up over a slot TE.

And you don't fanny about chopping and changing your two ILB's all the time so they have no rhythm and don't know how to work together. All offenses will do to avoid having their TE covered by Simmons is line up inline so Simmons is locked in at ILB then motion the TE out to the slot.

If you want Simmon's covering TE's then he's not playing the traditional ILB spots in a 3-4. If you want to call him a linebacker then he's a nickel backer at best, but he's not going to be taking snaps from Hicks or Campbell.

Let's call it quits now. We'll see come game 1.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

BritCard ignoring my bet proposition... will spend hours of his life arguing in a thread but wont put some cash on it!

tells you everything you need to know.

 

[BritCard]

BritCard ignoring my bet proposition... will spend hours of his life arguing in a thread but wont put some cash on it!

tells you everything you need to know.

It was my suggestion, why would I ignore it? I took your reply as accepting the bet.

Game 1 Hicks and Campbell are at ILB. Simmons is SS/Nickel backer/slot. Whatever you want to call him. But Hicks and Campbell are starting linebackers.

 

[GuernseyCard]

BritCard ignoring my bet proposition... will spend hours of his life arguing in a thread but wont put some cash on it!

tells you everything you need to know.

"BETS" are a joke!

 

[kerouac9]

I didn't mean he can't line up over a TE because of rules. I meant linebackers don't line up in man over TE's, extremely rarely at least.

Let's take a neutral situation. Say, 2nd and 8. Run and pass are both options. You don't take one of your ILB's out from between the tackles and leave a giant hole to run through so he can line up over a slot TE.

And you don't fanny about chopping and changing your two ILB's all the time so they have no rhythm and don't know how to work together. All offenses will do to avoid having their TE covered by Simmons is line up inline so Simmons is locked in at ILB then motion the TE out to the slot.

If you want Simmon's covering TE's then he's not playing the traditional ILB spots in a 3-4. If you want to call him a linebacker then he's a nickel backer at best, but he's not going to be taking snaps from Hicks or Campbell.

Let's call it quits now. We'll see come game 1.

Seems pretty fine to me. I mean, this is literally the simplest man formation, and there is still the an uncovered linebacker to attack the ball carrier in the event of a run.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[BritCard]

Seems pretty fine to me. I mean, this is literally the simplest man formation, and there is still the an uncovered linebacker to attack the ball carrier in the event of a run.

You must be registered for see images attach

I'm not sure where you got these from but they don't bare much resemblance to reality. You only have to watch Cardinals game tape from last year.

The one on the left TE has a 7 yard cushion. Against the Kittle in that situation they would always bring a safety down to sit over Kittle because that inside backer cant watch his gaps and cover a receiving TE who by the time the snap is taken under center and handed off to the RB or faked that TE is free as a bird, or the linebacker is dragged so far out of position that they run it up between the tackles to that side. Any team against a TE like Kittle, Kelce etc would have a safety down in the box to watch him.

Your have the opposite problem on the right. The only time this formation works is on 3rd and looong. If this is any other scenario there's a huge hole to the right. Again in that situation a team would bring a safety down into the box to cover him.

And none of this takes into account teams lining up the TE next to the left tackle, as the Seahawks, Niners and most teams often do. Which would take Simmons out of the picture.

Or any pre snap motion, which again teams do a lot with TE's. Against the Niners last year Kittle would often line up on the weak side and they would designate Hicks to watch him (yuk) then he'd motion over to the right side and Budda would have to come down from FS to cover him, usually arrive late and they would pick up an easy 5 yards.

As a rookie with 220 snaps at ILB teams would RPO the crap out of him.

I have screenshots to demonstrate all of this but it's all there in the game reels and I couldn't be bothered having to find a host and link them all.

Anyway, lets wait and see game 1.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

It was my suggestion, why would I ignore it? I took your reply as accepting the bet.

Game 1 Hicks and Campbell are at ILB. Simmons is SS/Nickel backer/slot. Whatever you want to call him. But Hicks and Campbell are starting linebackers.

Nah I’d like to bet that Simmons registers more snaps at LB than Safety throughout the year. Not game 1

 

[Proximo]

I'm no fan of Campbell. I don't think he's very good in coverage. But also VJ said he was their primary defensive FA target. So I don't see them paying him $6m almost all guaranteed, to sit on the bench.

That was before they got Simmons. Things change. Simmons is a far better version of him, and he is only on a 1 year contract.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

kinda crazy to say but our defense might be half top the league this year

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I agree with all that, I just don't think he going to do any of it from the tradition 2 linebacker spots in a 3-4. He's going to be SS in base and whatever word you want to use to describe basically the same position in nickel... nickel linebacker / slot DB. I don't see him taking the majority of snaps from Hicks or Campbell. I think he takes most snaps from Thompson / Murphy (unless Murphy plays outside).

I have no real opinion on Jalen. I think he made some nice plays towards the end but also that the praise was a little overblown. Too early to say what he will be.

I can see Simmons taking snaps from Murphy, Campbell & Thompson in certain packages or to defend certain players that are burning us. As far as his position, even if they play him more as a "box safety" they will still list him as a LB. He will do many things for this defense, you can count on that.

Time will tell on Jalen Thompson but I think he is gonna play even better in 2020. Pick up where he left off in 2019 & expand on it.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I'm just going to say that I believe he'll call himself a LB. There isn't much money being spent on safety's these days. If he ever got to the point of being franchised or negotiating a new contract he would want it to be at LB money.

 

[DumboD]

Brit Card quote:"Game 1 Hicks and Campbell are at ILB. Simmons is SS/Nickel backer/slot. Whatever you want to call him. But Hicks and Campbell are starting linebackers."

I thought the your argument was that "Simmons is a Safety, not a Linebacker" not a "whatever you want to call him."

 

[Garthshort]

I'm just going to say that I believe he'll call himself a LB. There isn't much money being spent on safety's these days. If he ever got to the point of being franchised or negotiating a new contract he would want it to be at LB money.

By the time he's eligible for FA, we'll know what he is.

 

[gimpy]

Well, still be arguments, er, discussions. .

 

[BritCard]

Nah I’d like to bet that Simmons registers more snaps at LB than Safety throughout the year. Not game 1

Call it what you like. Make it simple, Hicks and Campbell will get the majority of snaps at inside linebacker. Simmons will only see linebacker in nickel as a nickel backer / slot safety.