Simmons' season preview

[elindholm]

Yep, still missing it. I've never claimed otherwise.

Then what's your beef with the Simmons video? You're right, I don't get it. Did you want Simmons and Rose to say explicitly, "But hey, you know, the Suns might get better in another couple of years"? What would that have added? They said that the Suns suck now, which they do. How is that ignorant? Everyone knows that bottom-feeders have a chance to improve if they strike it rich in the draft; do you expect any analyst to make that point at every available opportunity?

 

[Superbone]

Then what's your beef with the Simmons video? You're right, I don't get it. Did you want Simmons and Rose to say explicitly, "But hey, you know, the Suns might get better in another couple of years"? What would that have added? They said that the Suns suck now, which they do. How is that ignorant? Everyone knows that bottom-feeders have a chance to improve if they strike it rich in the draft; do you expect any analyst to make that point at every available opportunity?

Here is what I would expect from a current analysis of the Suns:

The Suns made some great strides this summer. They fired the lousy Lance Blanks and hired the up and coming Ryan McDonough. He in turned hired the promising Jeff Hornacek as coach replacing the ineffective Lindsey Hunter. McDonough is off to a good start in turning this team around and he also cut his losses on the cancerous Michael Beasley. Maybe, just maybe, Robert Sarver is finally starting to get it by hiring good basketball minds and staying out of the way. The Suns won't be great this year but they should be entertaining to watch and play hard. They'll have a good shot at getting a very good player in next years talent heavy draft. They are well positioned for the future.

 

[Neo]

You totally missed my point. I'm not talking about how good the team is going to be. Simmons completely ignored the goings on this summer. No mention of the hiring of McDonough and firing of Blanks. There was barely a mention of new coaching. He was just Sarver bashing for the sake of it as if the Blanks era never ended. If the video was made a year ago, yeah sure, it was spot on. Absolutely no research went into the segment. They basically didn't know what they were talking about. They came off as ignorant.

To me your argument seems the same general theme that I keep seeing repeated this summer. To me it sounds like this: "Nevermind all the things that Sarver did that took this from being a great team to what nearly unanimously considered one of the worst in the league. Look at all the things that changed this offseason that might improve things. We have young people and young means potential."

This year's team is an unknown. We don't know how Horny will be as a coach because he has never been a head coach. We don't know how our young players will do because we can't accurately predict a players development or health.

Some people will look at unknowns on the team and assume the best. For them, uncertaintly means there is hope for doing better. Others look at the unknowns and assume the worst. They see the unproven players and coaches as evidence that we still don't have anyone who as demonstrated that they can turn this team around.

I think that I am in the latter camp. The bottom line is I look at our roster and just have to shake my head at how many crappy players we have on this team.

 

[Errntknght]

I would have thought that you, as a math person, would value getting the right answer over hoping for something that feels good. Wouldn't you train your students not to let the emotional appeal of an educated guess factor into their assessment of it?

I'm much less sold than you are on the premise that becoming a "fast break team" can transform a lousy roster into a competitive one. It's true that a playing style can maximize the talents of any given roster, and if the Suns' roster is better suited to an uptempo style than to grinding, then fine, go uptempo.

But other teams can adjust. If your gimmick is hoping for turnovers and leaking out for cherry-picking layups -- and yes, I realize that that's an oversimplification -- then the other team will become more deliberate on offense and cheat back on defense. And then the Suns team becomes a bunch of "athletes" without NBA skills.

A common misconception of math is that it proceeds forward via logic and deduction but as an educated person I'd have guessed you knew better. Logic and deduction are the tools of the trade once one has an idea but the ideas are what drive it forward. The ideas do not spring out of nothing, of course, they arise from countless hours of total immersion in some area of mathematics and communicating with others of like mind. Some of the intuitive leaps made are truly astounding - they become known as conjectures - which can take hundreds of years to prove. So, no, you would not train your students to be unemotional because, like everyone else, what drives mathematicians to such sustained effort is their emotions. You wouldn't train them to eschew intuition either. (You can look up the Taniyama conjecture (proved) and Riemann hypothesis (unproved) to get a clearer picture of what I'm talking about.)

Nice try in labeling fastbreak basketball a gimmick - that applies to D'Antoni's SSOL and small ball but fastbreak basketball has a long history of success in the hands of the Boston Celtics (under Auerbach) and the Lakers (showtime). Red laid down the method of fastbreak years ago and it is based on strong defense and rebounding. I expect it to look rather gimmicky with our guys this year because its going to take time to make them into a strong defensive and rebounding team. I'd surely go for a gambling, disruptive style of D this year to add some excitement for the fans. And it not a bad thing to have in your arsenal for desperate situations.

With your last paragraph you did inadvertently help make my case - forcing other teams to adapt to your style is just what you want to do.

 

[Neo]

but they should be entertaining to watch and play hard.

However, I do see many who think the Suns might be a young, exciting and athletic team.

I'll congratulate McD and Hornacek for putting together an exciting team with a bright future

Have exciting and entertaining become euphamisms for a team that dunks a lot in their losses?

 

[elindholm]

So, no, you would not train your students to be unemotional because, like everyone else, what drives mathematicians to such sustained effort is their emotions.

I don't think "emotions" and "passion" are the same thing. I was pretty good friends with Shinichi Mochizuki in college -- we were sophomore physics lab partners, for example, and took hundreds of meals together. I could be wrong, of course, but I came away believing that I had a pretty decent idea of what made him tick.

Nice try in labeling fastbreak basketball a gimmick - that applies to D'Antoni's SSOL and small ball but fastbreak basketball has a long history of success in the hands of the Boston Celtics (under Auerbach) and the Lakers (showtime). Red laid down the method of fastbreak years ago and it is based on strong defense and rebounding.

"And great talent," you left out. Put Magic, Kareem, and Worthy on a team and they're going to be good no matter what. Win multiple titles, maybe not, but be pretty damn good, yes, in any style.

With your last paragraph you did inadvertently help make my case - forcing other teams to adapt to your style is just what you want to do.

Only if you have a Plan B.

 

[elindholm]

Here is what I would expect from a current analysis of the Suns:

The Suns made some great strides this summer. They fired the lousy Lance Blanks and hired the up and coming Ryan McDonough. He in turned hired the promising Jeff Hornacek as coach replacing the ineffective Lindsey Hunter.

But whether McDonough is "up and coming," or whether Hornacek is "promising," is completely your opinion. You're criticizing Simmons and Rose for disagreeing with you, not for being ignorant.

The Suns won't be great this year but they should be entertaining to watch and play hard.

That really depends on what you mean by "entertaining." Individual player who are short on talent but long on hustle, like Lou Amundson or P. J. Tucker, can be fun to watch, especially if they inspire their teammates to come closer to maximizing their own talents. But a whole team of talent-starved ninth men just doesn't do it for me, no matter how hard they work.

"Ignorant" is a pretty strong word. You haven't made the case that Simmons doesn't know what he's talking about -- only that his opinion is different from yours.

 

[Phrazbit]

Simmons and Rose are previewing next year, they are not talking about where the Suns might be in a few years. I am thrilled that the franchise finally seems to have a plan that they are executing for how to turn this thing around, but NEXT year viewed in a bottle they are going to be awful.

I think they will be more interesting than last year's team because they finally have some guys with some upside, but I dont expect the results to be much better and they will possibly be a bit worse.

I agree the team will probably do well in transition, we all know thats where Dragic is at his best and Bledsoe seems like a quality transition player. But if thats our only offensive strength teams are not going to have much difficulty dealing with that. Our lack of half court play making and shooting is going to make this team really brutal to watch on many a night this season. Disciplined defensive teams are going to absolutely massacre us, and thats no knock on Horny, he might be a great coach, but our talent is severely lacking.

 

[chickenhead]

I didn't really notice that they didn't mention McDonough and Hornacek at first, but then, I'm also not used to national media doing so (or talking much about the Suns at all). In any case, yes, he did lean on the Sarver hate: but he did look into the camera and tell Sarver to sell the team. +1

 

[BC867]

In reading all of the previous posts in this thread, I see the following logical conclusions about the 2013-14 Suns from a local fan's perspective.

-- Look for things to root for in our hometown team . . . and continue following them.

-- Stop looking for things to root for . . . and abandon them.

-- Stop looking for things to root for . . . and continue following them.

The third option goes against human nature and would be very frustrating. Except perhaps for posters from out-of-town. To them I say, "It's all we have. We can't flip on our local cable and get Lakers or Clippers games."

 

[Griffin]

This year's team is an unknown. We don't know how Horny will be as a coach because he has never been a head coach. We don't know how our young players will do because we can't accurately predict a players development or health.

Some people will look at unknowns on the team and assume the best. For them, uncertaintly means there is hope for doing better. Others look at the unknowns and assume the worst. They see the unproven players and coaches as evidence that we still don't have anyone who as demonstrated that they can turn this team around.

Agreed, except that I don't see the latter as assuming the worst. The worst would be to assume that this will all spectacularly fail. I don't think anyone here is really in that camp. But it is a fact that the Suns have not brought in anyone at any level with proven experience. The Suns will have a first-time GM, first-time head coach and their "prized" player acquisition will be a first-time starter. That's a lot of firsts.

So does the team's long-term future really look much brighter than last summer? That's easy to say now with the benefit of hindsight. But it wouldn't be so obvious before last season. Now contrast that with next summer if the Suns wind up with one of the projected superstars in the draft. Now that is something that will certainly improve the team's long-term outlook. But we're not quite there yet, imo.

 

[sunsfan88]

Here is what I would expect from a current analysis of the Suns:

The Suns made some great strides this summer. They fired the lousy Lance Blanks and hired the up and coming Ryan McDonough. He in turned hired the promising Jeff Hornacek as coach replacing the ineffective Lindsey Hunter. McDonough is off to a good start in turning this team around and he also cut his losses on the cancerous Michael Beasley. Maybe, just maybe, Robert Sarver is finally starting to get it by hiring good basketball minds and staying out of the way. The Suns won't be great this year but they should be entertaining to watch and play hard. They'll have a good shot at getting a very good player in next years talent heavy draft. They are well positioned for the future.

 

[Mainstreet]

Have exciting and entertaining become euphamisms for a team that dunks a lot in their losses?

I never even thought about dunking when thinking about the new Suns. I'm looking for a young athletic team that can get up and down the court and can play some pressure defense even if inconsistent. Personally, I've always enjoyed watching young players develop and battle for playing time. The Suns seem intent on player development which I like.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I never even thought about dunking when thinking about the new Suns. I'm looking for a young athletic team that can get up and down the court and can play some pressure defense even if inconsistent. Personally, I've always enjoyed watching young players develop and battle for playing time. The Suns seem intent on player development which I like.

I think people here are in for a very rude awakening. a 20 win team (which is what we look like we'll be IMO) is rarely fun and exciting...even when developing young talent.

i think we are going to suck out loud...but I'm still interested in seeing what kind talent our young three actually have. but make no mistake folks...this season is probably gonna be really hard to watch on the whole.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think people here are in for a very rude awakening. a 20 win team (which is what we look like we'll be IMO) is rarely fun and exciting...even when developing young talent.

i think we are going to suck out loud...but I'm still interested in seeing what kind talent our young three actually have. but make no mistake folks...this season is probably gonna be really hard to watch on the whole.

I watched every game last season and for the most part I still enjoyed them. It wasn't as entertaining as most seasons are. In fact, it was probably the least enjoyable season I've watched since getting the NBA League Pass (94?) but I still enjoyed watching the Suns play. I think this season has the potential to be much more entertaining.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I'd agree that this coming season should be more watchable than last season was.

 

[Superbone]

I watched every game last season and for the most part I still enjoyed them. It wasn't as entertaining as most seasons are. In fact, it was probably the least enjoyable season I've watched since getting the NBA League Pass (94?) but I still enjoyed watching the Suns play. I think this season has the potential to be much more entertaining.

Steve

This exactly.

 

[Superbone]

I'd agree that this coming season should be more watchable than last season was.

Aha! At the very least you admit that. Simmons couldn't even muster that.

 

[sunsfan88]

This coming season will likely be more entertaining than the past 3 seasons (seasons after the WCF run). And yet idiot Simmons and Rose thought we should hold on to Nash to delay our rebuilding process even further.

 

[Mulli]

It seems the Suns will be more fun to watch than last year, but is that enough for the nonSunsfan to watch? I agree that Jalen's appeal is pretty limited, but I can't say I blame Simmons for not being enthusiastic about the Suns this year.

 

[Errntknght]

This coming season will likely be more entertaining than the past 3 seasons (seasons after the WCF run). And yet idiot Simmons and Rose thought we should hold on to Nash to delay our rebuilding process even further.

That trade has already paid off, it was a pick from it that netted us Goodwin. I was so ticked when the refs (and, presumeably, their bosses) threw game after game to the Lakers to put them in the playoffs but I wouldn't be surprised if McD would have selected Goodwin at #15 so it may have cost us nothing at all. Heck, it probably worked out better this way from my own myopic point of view... I was glad to get Goodwin at #29 but I think at #15 I'd have wanted us to draft another big.

 

[Superbone]

It seems the Suns will be more fun to watch than last year, but is that enough for the nonSunsfan to watch?

Who cares?

 

[Mulli]

Who cares?

Good point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It seems the Suns will be more fun to watch than last year, but is that enough for the nonSunsfan to watch? I agree that Jalen's appeal is pretty limited, but I can't say I blame Simmons for not being enthusiastic about the Suns this year.

I don't have a problem with Simmon's take on the Suns, he might be right. My problem is with his attacks on Sarver. Sarver deserves a lot of blame but Simmons is a man on a mission and he doesn't let the truth get in the way of his agenda. Simmons ended up looking the fool when more of the story came out about the CBA negotiations and the fact that it was almost the exact opposite of what he claimed his sources told him. I lost a lot of respect for Bill when he not only didn't man up but continued to bash Sarver with the zeal of a jilted lover. He has no perspective when he talks about the Suns as a result of his anti-Sarver crusade and IMO it's a waste of time to listen to what he says on the subject.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

I don't have a problem with Simmon's take on the Suns, he might be right. My problem is with his attacks on Sarver. Sarver deserves a lot of blame but Simmons is a man on a mission and he doesn't let the truth get in the way of his agenda. Simmons ended up looking the fool when more of the story came out about the CBA negotiations and the fact that it was almost the exact opposite of what he claimed his sources told him. I lost a lot of respect for Bill when he not only didn't man up but continued to bash Sarver with the zeal of a jilted lover. He has no perspective when he talks about the Suns as a result of his anti-Sarver crusade and IMO it's a waste of time to listen to what he says on the subject.

Steve

100% correct. Simmons is still the only nBA media type worth listening to.

But I am not a Sunsfan anymore really.