Simmons traded to Giants for a 7th

[Chopper0080]

If you made up your mind, why would you pay the bonus? Your argument falls apart when you consider they could have saved money by trading him earlier.

And players that you have to "simplify" "dumb down" etc aren't players you should keep. Maybe if you are competing for a playoff spot, sure, but not on a rebuilding team.

Ask yourself this question, would you be interested in re-signing Simmons? I think the answer is emphatically no. This is all sunk cost fallacy at play.

I wrote an entire post about Monti demonstrating terrible timing. Monti himself said it wasn't a snap decision. I also said that if the goal was to win games, you don't trade Simmons. I have also stated I believe this team is building a roster to lose.

You operate under the assumption that Monti knows what he is doing. I do not. I believe he is figuring it out and mistakes like this are the learning curve.

 

[Chopper0080]

Football is about the Jimmys and Joes, not the Xs and Os, when it comes right down to it. If we lose every games 27-6, you're going to blame anyone -- it'll be part of the plan. How long are you willing to be served trash before you decide you deserve better?



We made the playoffs two years ago. Are we better off now? How?

You've articulated a perfect situation for Monti: Every move he makes that makes us less competitive is brilliant because we're in a rebuild. Every move he makes that makes us more competitive is equally brilliant because we're more able to compete.

The roster is only void of talent because Monti Ossenfort oversaw its dismantling while you cheered happily from the sideline.



It's not. If Simmons played well this year, we'd obviously be interested in re-signing him. So would you. You didn't think Simmons was unplayable until this morning after he got traded.

Agreed. If @DVontel pops on here and stated "Simmons was not one of the best 51 players on this roster", I would disagree but listen. I don't know of anyone else on here saying cut Simmons prior to today and, more importantly, prior to the game vs the Chiefs.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I wrote an entire post about Monti demonstrating terrible timing. Monti himself said it wasn't a snap decision. I also said that if the goal was to win games, you don't trade Simmons. I have also stated I believe this team is building a roster to lose.

You operate under the assumption that Monti knows what he is doing. I do not. I believe he is figuring it out and mistakes like this are the learning curve.

I don't know about that. Simmons looked like a liability out there in coverage. I saw absolutely nothing from him to suggest that he would help this defense. In fact he hurt the defense in the plays that he was out there.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't know about that. Simmons looked like a liability out there in coverage. I saw absolutely nothing from him to suggest that he would help this defense. In fact he hurt the defense in the plays that he was out there.

So you're taking the handful of plays we've seen in meaningless preseason games over the four years of actual games? C'mon.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't know about that. Simmons looked like a liability out there in coverage. I saw absolutely nothing from him to suggest that he would help this defense. In fact he hurt the defense in the plays that he was out there.

There are defensive packages that teams use to just let athletes run. There are special teams roles that help teams win games. There are ways to use athletes in football even if they are not in significant roles. The Cardinals were just never willing to do this with Simmons this year. (and that is ok, but don't tell me it is because you are trying to put the best 53 on the field)

 

[Chopper0080]

So you're taking the handful of plays we've seen in meaningless preseason games over the four years of actual games? C'mon.

It is interesting when the preseason matters and when it doesn't.

 

[MadCardDisease]

So you're taking the handful of plays we've seen in meaningless preseason games over the four years of actual games? C'mon.

The games may be meaningless in the standing. However the tape doesn't lie.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It is interesting when the preseason matters and when it doesn't.

Yep. As I have said before the score of the game doesn't matter. It's the one on one matchups that do.

 

[BritCard]

This is just factually untrue with Simmons.

He was bad under Vance. A whole new defensive staff came in including a HC that's a DB coach and a DC that's a LB coach with a flexible scheme built around the players and after camp and 2 PS games they all thought his best position was on another team.

And no team would give up more than a 7th.That should really tell us all he's a bust.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yep. As I have said before the score of the game doesn't matter. It's the one on one matchups that do.

Again, if Simmons roster spot was being determined by his preseason play at a new position and in a new scheme where the Cardinals kept players they were starting Simmons over...then he never had a chance.

 

[BritCard]

I didn’t believe it either but I think Brit did the research and it turns out he would have.

After a year of sucking the best Simmons was getting next year was a one year vet min contract. So no comp pick anyway.

 

[QuebecCard]

Personally, I think this was another situation Monti handled poorly in terms of timing, similar to Hopkins. In both instances Monti has said that the decisions were not snap decisions, and also in both situations Monti missed the window that would have given the team the best chance to get value.

If you are trying to trade an expensive, vet WR, you do so when teams have the most money available, and not after they have spent it

If you are trying to trade a non-traditional player who is a high level athlete, you don't wait a month into camp after teams have already invested time and energy into their roster. You want to move him when teams feel they have time to figure out how to use him and see him in their systems.

Who says MONTI didn't attempt to trade Hopkins earlier and that the contract and Dhop's willingness to rejig didn't stymie all efforts?

And just maybe it was in fact camp that was the deciding factor when it came to Simmons.

 

[Chopper0080]

He was bad under Vance. A whole new defensive staff came in including a HC that's a DB coach and a DC that's a LB coach with a flexible scheme built around the players and after camp and 2 PS games they all thought his best position was on another team.

And no team would give up more than a 7th.That should really tell us all he's a bust.

What player is this scheme built around? How is it flexible?

Let's look at it this way. If Simmons was on the potential cut list, why was he starting in the first preseason game, and 2nd string in the game vs the Chiefs? They weren't treating him like Rashad Lawrence and playing him in the 4th q of preseason games.

 

[BritCard]

The decision to move Simmons to safety was about to be a really, really bad look for whoever made and signed off on that call. Most of us that have watched the guy play the past 3 seasons could see that it had disaster written all over it.

I don’t think Monti or Gannon thought it would look this bad this quickly though. It was time to wash that stain off before it set in.

Simmons said he didn't want to play LB. Asked to be moved to safety.

 

[QuebecCard]

Then why did they pay his bonus a couple weeks ago?

Well, he was still on the bubble at that point, I guess.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Again, if Simmons roster spot was being determined by his preseason play at a new position and in a new scheme where the Cardinals kept players they were starting Simmons over...then he never had a chance.

What is TC and Preseason for then? Breaking in cleats? He failed at ILB, He Failed at OLB, and he Failed at Safety. I guess they could have tried him at punter.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Agreed. If @DVontel pops on here and stated "Simmons was not one of the best 51 players on this roster", I would disagree but listen. I don't know of anyone else on here saying cut Simmons prior to today and, more importantly, prior to the game vs the Chiefs.

@DVontel did say it. It's in an earlier post, where he refuted someone saying Simmons and Jones were both to 51...He agreed on Jones and not Simmons.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The most hilarious part of all of this is Simmons is exactly the kind of player we should be targeting...highly thought of, bad team potentially misused him, low cost high reward options.

Instead we've given up pretty much all of our promising young talent with little to nothing in return. Murphy/Simmons/Allen/Jones...this isn't tearing down down to the studs, it's nuking the jobsite for reasons.

I'm still waiting for when and how we plan on replenishing talent, outside of near perfect drafting at this point.

 

[BritCard]

What player is this scheme built around? How is it flexible?

Let's look at it this way. If Simmons was on the potential cut list, why was he starting in the first preseason game, and 2nd string in the game vs the Chiefs? They weren't treating him like Rashad Lawrence and playing him in the 4th q of preseason games.

They were giving him a chance to prove himself with 1st/2nd team defense and in both games he proved he sucks.

Every game for 3 seasons he's mostly sucked. It's painfully obvious watching him play that he's just not a natural.

He has a splash play occasionally but you just can't rely on him to do his job down to down. I don't think he's a full time player. At best he's a situational role player.

If he was worth more other teams would have offered more.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What is TC and Preseason for then? Breaking in cleats?

Finally!!! Someone gets it.

 

[TheCardFan]

The most hilarious part of all of this is Simmons is exactly the kind of player we should be targeting...highly thought of, bad team potentially misused him, low cost high reward options.

Agreed.

Instead we've given up pretty much all of our promising young talent with little to nothing in return. Murphy/Simmons/Allen/Jones...this isn't tearing down down to the studs, it's nuking the jobsite for reasons.

Eh. Simmons is a bust and Jones was a career back-up.
Murphy and Allen are hardly nuking the jobsite.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I wrote an entire post about Monti demonstrating terrible timing. Monti himself said it wasn't a snap decision. I also said that if the goal was to win games, you don't trade Simmons. I have also stated I believe this team is building a roster to lose.

How many more wins does Simmons add?

Right..you're proving my point. It wasn't a snap decision. They saw what we all saw from Simmons. They tried to make him work at safety and he wasn't.

You operate under the assumption that Monti knows what he is doing. I do not. I believe he is figuring it out and mistakes like this are the learning curve.

I don't operate under any assumption. That's our difference here.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Murphy and Allen are hardly nuking the jobsite.

What is left? Where exactly are the good young players you need to...you know, win games either now or in the future? Are we hoping to strike gold on the Kyzir White and Pascal?

The vision is quite cloudy at this point.

 

[Krangodnzr]

What player is this scheme built around? How is it flexible?

Let's look at it this way. If Simmons was on the potential cut list, why was he starting in the first preseason game, and 2nd string in the game vs the Chiefs? They weren't treating him like Rashad Lawrence and playing him in the 4th q of preseason games.

Starting in a preseason game means nothing. We've seen players play almost entire games and get cut.

You start him because you really need to see him against the 1s. They have a lot more invested in him than Rashard Lawrence.

Man you are really grasping .

 

[kerouac9]

You start him because you really need to see him against the 1s. They have a lot more invested in him than Rashard Lawrence.

Do they? THAT'S sunk cost fallacy, my guy.