Since when did this become a toss-up series?

Chaplin

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Chris_Sanders said:
Yes that 1 game lead over the Kings makes all the difference. :rolleyes:

I can make whatever assertion I wish, as it is my opinion and I don't need to "prove it". Nor do you need to prove yours. That's why I tried to say "Well we disagree" and leave it at that.

I'm confused. When did I say you couldn't make any assertions? I was just trying to understand why you think they are the worst team in the playoffs, that's all.

Why I defend you to the other mods escapes me at times.

???

Why are you personally attacking me? What did I do to you? What did I do to anybody? And I don't need you to "defend" me on anything, so that's that.
 

Chris_Sanders

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And D-Dogg, if/when the Lakers pull what would be a monumental upset in my mind and knock the Suns out of the playoffs, I will gladly step up and have a huge helping of crow :)
 

D-Dogg

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Chris_Sanders said:
And D-Dogg, if/when the Lakers pull what would be a monumental upset in my mind and knock the Suns out of the playoffs, I will gladly step up and have a huge helping of crow :)

Fair enough...
 

nowagimp

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Chris_Sanders said:
I don't count either thank you. If I felt the Lakers were the better team, I would say so. For instance, if we were playing Dallas or San Antonio, I would think that the Suns would almost certainly lose...but there was a chance they could pull an upset.

That is how I feel about the Lakers. It is called objectivity.

There is no place for objectivity here. Few NBA fans have real objectivity, its bad for business. Havent you been reading all the posts between laker and suns fans? If everyone was objective and didnt believe anything could happen, ratings would be DOWN.
 
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fordronken

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Wow. I took a nap and now my little rant turned into a small argument.

Anyway, I live in L.A. All my friends who know anything about basketball are Laker fans(hence a need for a Suns message board). They all think the Suns should cream the Lakers. They think the Lakers have a shot, as everybody should, but it really shouldn't be much of one.

Anyway, if the Suns lose to the Lakers in the first round, I'm gonna be hearing about it for two years.
 

F-Dog

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Chris_Sanders said:
It isn't a toss up. The Suns are heavily favored to win this by the people whose opinions actually count for something...bookies.

Exactly. These talking heads aren't putting their money at risk here, only their credibility, i.e. nothing. ;)


The Lakers' odds have moved down in the last day (+320 to +300), but so have the Suns' odds (-385 to -400). (Incidentally, it looks to me like the books aren't interested in getting any more bets on the Suns side.) At worst, Phoenix is the 3-1 favorite in this series.
 

elindholm

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The Lakers' odds have moved down in the last day (+320 to +300), but so have the Suns' odds (-385 to -400).

Wait a minute. Doesn't that just mean that the house is increasing its edge, regardless of how the betting pans out?
 

abomb

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F-Dog said:
The Lakers' odds have moved down in the last day (+320 to +300), but so have the Suns' odds (-385 to -400). (Incidentally, it looks to me like the books aren't interested in getting any more bets on the Suns side.) At worst, Phoenix is the 3-1 favorite in this series.

That is pretty interesting that it moved so much in just a couple of days. I guess it goes to show how ESPN and other media outlets control public sentiment. Kind of how the Cardinals NFC West line moved around quite a bit once the "experts" started giving them credit last fall. This is why I stopped betting on sports, betting the big teams (LAL, Green Bay, Cubs, Yankees) will rarely make you money relative to the actual chances of a team winning. If the Lakers are only paying 3:1 and you like the Lakers at 5:1, you are making a suckers bet.

A-Bomb
 

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elindholm said:
The Lakers' odds have moved down in the last day (+320 to +300), but so have the Suns' odds (-385 to -400).

Wait a minute. Doesn't that just mean that the house is increasing its edge, regardless of how the betting pans out?

Yes, that's what it means.

I was expecting the line to tilt toward L.A., because of all the journalists' predictions from the last day or so, but it hasn't happened yet. :shrug:
 

golfcardfan

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Come on the Lakers can't even be called a good team the west just sucked this year or they are not even in the playoffs! They are gonna get drilled by the Suns write it down and remember I TOLD YOU SO!!!! haha seriously this series will be over quickly probally a sweep!
 

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elindholm said:
The Lakers might upset the Suns. A seven-game series requires only four upsets, the Suns haven't been playing all that well recently, and -- most important of all -- the Suns know that, as presently constituted, they can't achieve their real goal for the season, which was a title. Aside from the humiliation, what does it really matter if the Suns get eliminated in the first round? Not much. They're still a good team that wasn't ready this year, and they'll still be a good team next year, hoping that their health will be more favorable.

Actually, I think it would be very beneficial for JJ3, Diaw, Bell, etc to get some good, deep playoff experience. It would make it easier for them to properly prepare and perform in a potential championship run next year.
 

tobiazz

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abomb said:
It wasnt the only reason, but what I'm getting at is that BS finally checked his KB hate at the door and KB had the best individual season with minimal talent in the past 20+ years. At least, that is the impression I got from an interview with BS on nba.com regarding his league win.

A-Bomb

Yeah, as long as you don't count good players like Michael Jordan. Jordan's CAREER AVERAGES are more impressive than Kobe's numbers for this season. Jordan's best seasons make Kobe's nice season look unspectacular by comparison.

Jordan's mid-90's teams were very good but his early teams were not and he still shot a sick percentage which is the best indication of a great player on a bad team. I would not take Kobe's season over the best seasons of MJ, Olajuwon, and a few others.

That doesn't mean he didn't have a great year, but he is not even close to having the best season of the last 20+ years. Should I mention that Lebron is better this year? Yes, I should.
 

mkapp

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Based on season meetings- the suns will likely try to shutdown the Lakers and let Kobe do whatever he wants. One man cannot outscore an entire team, especially a high-scoring team such as PHX. That bad thing is this feeds into the media hyping Kobe and the Lakers. If the Suns win, but Kobe puts up 56- thats what ESPN will be talking about, and Bill Walton will have a hard-on for the next game. Too bad the suns cant get some respect after the last 2 seasons, the obstacles that they have overcome, playing a different type and level of basketball, and proving EVERYBODY wrong. Go Suns!
 

D-Dogg

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tobiazz said:
Yeah, as long as you don't count good players like Michael Jordan. Jordan's CAREER AVERAGES are more impressive than Kobe's numbers for this season. Jordan's best seasons make Kobe's nice season look unspectacular by comparison.

Jordan's mid-90's teams were very good but his early teams were not and he still shot a sick percentage which is the best indication of a great player on a bad team. I would not take Kobe's season over the best seasons of MJ, Olajuwon, and a few others.

That doesn't mean he didn't have a great year, but he is not even close to having the best season of the last 20+ years. Should I mention that Lebron is better this year? Yes, I should.

This is a seriously demented post.

Some people have blinders on and are swimming in haterade.

BTW, Lebron isn't close to being better this year. And Jordan rarely shot from further out than 18 feet...that will do wonders for your shooting percentage...see Dwyayayane Wyade for example..a poor outside shooter who gets most of his points around the rim.

Jordan's best statistical seasons were in the mid-80s...around 20 years ago. His championship years were less impressive overall, while still being very very good.

And his career numbers are not better than Kobe's this year.

420 was two days ago...you need to stop celebrating.
 

D-Dogg

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BTW: Just because Kobe had a tremendous, unbelievable season doesn't mean that he's better than Jordan. He's got a long way to go, and probably won't ever get there, truth be told.

But to disrespect his year in that way only pulls your opinion's pants down and exposes your depth of knowledge.
 

justAndy

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Ddog - you are silly with Laker Homerism - but your posts are well written - I give you a B+.
Why - you don't ever even get Bimmed, do you?
If the Lakers down the Suns - I owe you a Boot of Konig Ludwig hefe weizen at the German Corner.
If the Suns win, you owe me a 4 pack of Busch pint cans.
Beer odds!
 

HooverDam

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********, even when their team sucks Lakers fans are annoying. I ****ing hate the Lakers- Suns in 2.
 

tobiazz

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D-Dogg said:
BTW: Just because Kobe had a tremendous, unbelievable season doesn't mean that he's better than Jordan. He's got a long way to go, and probably won't ever get there, truth be told.

But to disrespect his year in that way only pulls your opinion's pants down and exposes your depth of knowledge.

I think you meant to throw a "lack of" in that last sentence, but your post was definitely more appropriate as written. Note that I described Kobe's season as both nice and great. Is that disrespectful to him? Or is claiming that another player in the league is as good or better than Kobe disrespectful?

Lebron's offensive efficiency is better than Kobe's. He also averages far more rebs and assts, less to's, less fouls on opponents. Lebron leads in virtually every statistical category. Kobe has far better FT% (one of the only objective stats), better 3P%, far more shot attempts, and slightly better steals.

Since Kobe's overall stats are less impressive than Lebron's, you're going to have to present a cogent, legitimate argument presenting what does make Kobe better. Taking more shots, Media exposure, and worse teammates are not viable reasons, by the way. In fact, Kobe is the one who ran the best center in the league out of town. Playing in the West and averaging slightly more minutes might be decent reasons.
 

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tobiazz said:
I think you meant to throw a "lack of" in that last sentence, but your post was definitely more appropriate as written. Note that I described Kobe's season as both nice and great. Is that disrespectful to him? Or is claiming that another player in the league is as good or better than Kobe disrespectful?

Lebron's offensive efficiency is better than Kobe's. He also averages far more rebs and assts, less to's, less fouls on opponents. Lebron leads in virtually every statistical category. Kobe has far better FT% (one of the only objective stats), better 3P%, far more shot attempts, and slightly better steals.

Since Kobe's overall stats are less impressive than Lebron's, you're going to have to present a cogent, legitimate argument presenting what does make Kobe better. Taking more shots, Media exposure, and worse teammates are not viable reasons, by the way. In fact, Kobe is the one who ran the best center in the league out of town. Playing in the West and averaging slightly more minutes might be decent reasons.


Exposing your depth of knowledge is what I meant, and it is very little.

You forgot points per game in your assessment. And the East is incredibly weak. LeBron played excellent ball today. I admire that he took playoff pressure and shrugged it off...mark of a great player. It's just another game in his book.

I love LeBron, and hate the hype surrounding him. He doesn't need it and it sours me on him somewhat, even though I know it isn't his fault. He's one hell of a good player though.

As to your comment on running Shaq out of town, you couldn't be more wrong. The Shaq problem was an issue of Buss and Shaq primarily, and money. Shaq demanded a trade, not Kobe.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3733434

Ego, of course, always was at the center of the Kobe-Shaq feud and neither was without fault over a championship team's premature demise.

But Shaq wanted out. Try to remember that. He asked to be traded.

Since he still had a year left on his contract, the Lakers had two choices: Trade him or keep him and call his bluff.

Figuring it was no bluff, and they'd get nothing in return if he played out his contract and signed elsewhere, they understandably chose to trade him.


In return, they have essentially received forward Lamar Odom, center Kwame Brown (for Caron Butler), Miami's first-round pick next June and luxury tax relief of $30 million after releasing Brian Grant.

And by trading Shaq, they were able to re-sign Kobe.

Does that look like such a terrible deal? A trade that should be the end of general manager Mitch Kupchak or a call for the stoning of Jerry Buss?

Odom and Brown are starters. They have struggled with consistency, with learning the triangle offense, with living up to their potential.

But they have come on down the stretch and, it should be noted, both are still young - Odom is 26 and Brown 24. Promise remains.

Shaq, meanwhile, just suffered through the worst season of his 14-year career. Career-lows in scoring (20.0points per game) and rebounding (9.2).

And he is 34 and continually battling injuries. He played in only 59games this season, averaging 30.6minutes a game.

Shaq clearly is on the downside of his career. He's not the guy Buss wanted to tie up his payroll with by granting him a whopping extension.

Shaq seemed to grow tired of Los Angeles, of sharing the spotlight with Kobe, and wanted out.

He was paid $28 million in his final season, and said he would never sign for less than the maximum, as Kevin Garnett had with Minnesota so the Timberwolves would have payroll flexibility to sign additional players.

After Shaq got to Miami, however, he signed a contract that averaged $20 million a year ($100 million for five seasons).

There were no such deals offered to the Lakers.


Hey, he was great while he was here. The last three championship banners would not be hanging at Staples without him. Some day, they'll rightly hang his jersey up there and retire his number.

And he still is the best center in the game when he wants to be, though the overall depth at the position in the NBA is woefully thin.

Yet he is dramatically closer to the end than the beginning. And being the best current center is not the same thing as still being the game's most dominating player and expecting to be paid like it.

It's not that the Lakers are some serious title threat. They have a long way to go and no certainty they'll ever get there with this current core.

But Shaq essentially forced the Lakers to make a choice between him and Kobe, and Buss made the proper call.

The trade never will go down as one of the great deals in Lakers history, but neither will it live in infamy as the ruin of all things purple and gold.

Trades are best viewed in the long term, and another year later, this one isn't looking as bad.
 
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