Skelton Game 2 Stats

[Darkside]

We must be talking about two different plays then.. Cuz what I saw was a lobbed duck..

I'm wondering if the play you're talking about is the one he had tipped, from behind. That one was fluttering and ugly.

 

[Russ Smith]

The INT is misleading. Skelton had nobody left to throw to except Fitz on that play and took a chance because after that (if he throws it away or runs out of bounds or whatever) he's going to be sitting anyway. May as well take a chance to stay on the field at that point. It's like a hail mary in preseason because his time was done after that no matter what. He gave up some field position instead (which isn't fair to Kolb, but still).

To paraphrase Mike Shanahan his first year coaching Jake Plummer "don't tell me you'll throw it away in a real game. Do it now, do it here now in practice, if you don't do it here you will NEVER do it in a real game. Why do you think you have thrown so many interceptions in your career?"

I didn't see the Skelton pick but if he did it for the reason you describe it's not only a bad excuse it's the exact opposite of what you want a guy who's likely your starting QB to think in a preseason game.

 

[Darkside]

We must be talking about two different plays then.. Cuz what I saw was a lobbed duck..

He did have a play that looked like that, it was tipped from behind, but that wasn't the INT he threw. His INT was his last play. He knew it was his last play and tried to make a play and threw it to Fitz toward the left sideline (Bottom sideline on TV) and it was INT. He dodged a rush and threw it on a run/jog and kind of jumped (almost like a Kolb throw). He just wanted to make a play instead of going out, but he threw a pick and it was a bad pass.

 

[Phrazbit]

I cant defend that Skelton pass. Yes, it was 3rd and long (thanks to an awful holding call), but he better not be making that throw in the regular season. Its one thing to heave a pass to Larry and hope he can out-jump his man. But that thing was under thrown so much that Larry didnt have a chance to jump for it, he instead had to play coverage on it.

But, to rip on Kolb for a moment. It seems like Kevin is unwilling to pass the ball into tight spots. His throws so far have been attempts at out routes and back shoulders. No trying to hit a guy across the middle, no seam routes. Unless he sees a guy open he tucks and runs... and since Kolb has awful field vision he is constantly tucking and running.

You cant have a gutless QB. Unwilling to attack the coverage and unwilling to stay in the pocket. Barring a lobotomy he is done.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

No it wasn't, it was a spiral that was poorly thrown into single coverage (and Fitz was fighting him for it). It was a bad pass, a poorly thrown pass. But it wasn't a duck, nor was he double covered. It wasn't lobbed at all.

He should have set his feet. He had time once he got out of the pocket.

Actually what he should have done is hit a check down & hope for the best. It is early in the game & the drive just had a holding penalty. Punting is not that bad of an option. It was not the time nor place to take that risk. It was a very poor decision.

It is what it is & what it is, is a dumb throw. Poor technique to carry out a poor decision.


Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone

 

[Darkside]

To paraphrase Mike Shanahan his first year coaching Jake Plummer "don't tell me you'll throw it away in a real game. Do it now, do it here now in practice, if you don't do it here you will NEVER do it in a real game. Why do you think you have thrown so many interceptions in your career?"

I didn't see the Skelton pick but if he did it for the reason you describe it's not only a bad excuse it's the exact opposite of what you want a guy who's likely your starting QB to think in a preseason game.

I agree with this whole philosophy in a sense. If you're a smart QB he'd throw it away 99% of the time. I wouldn't even mind if he did. I just think he was trying to make a play and keep the drive alive so he could stay on the field. In his mind it was 4th down, losing, no time left, so that's what he did. I don't mind that. I also agree with what you're saying. I think Leinhart tried to play safe and make completions and play football and I think it didn't work. Leinharts QB rating the year he was cut was extraordinary, but it didn't matter, because Whis wanted a killer, someone to put a dagger or a boot on dudes. So I think that's what Skelton was showing.

That being said, Jake Plummer didn't win anything under Shanny that he didn't win here, don't care. He was good, but let's not pretend like they won Superbowls together.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree with this whole philosophy in a sense. If you're a smart QB he'd throw it away 99% of the time. I wouldn't even mind if he did. I just think he was trying to make a play and keep the drive alive so he could stay on the field. In his mind it was 4th down, losing, no time left, so that's what he did. I don't mind that. I also agree with what you're saying. I think Leinhart tried to play safe and make completions and play football and I think it didn't work. Leinharts QB rating the year he was cut was extraordinary, but it didn't matter, because Whis wanted a killer, someone to put a dagger or a boot on dudes. So I think that's what Skelton was showing.

That being said, Jake Plummer didn't win anything under Shanny that he didn't win here, don't care. He was good, but let's not pretend like they won Superbowls together.

Excellent point. On one hand you have people who bashed Leinart for being too conservative and now you have people bashing Skelton for doing the opposite.

I'll take the guy who makes that throw trying to make a play under duress versus the guy who made the same throw last week under no pressure on the first pass of the game.

 

[Darkside]

Excellent point. On one hand you have people who bashed Leinart for being too conservative and now you have people bashing Skelton for doing the opposite.

I'll take the guy who makes that throw trying to make a play under duress versus the guy who made the same throw last week under no pressure on the first pass of the game.

Whis wants a dude who, on 3rd and 1, like Warner, will be willing to have the balls to throw a 40 yard post to Fitz or Boldin, instead of audibling to a stack/run for a first down. Doesn't happen every time obviously, maybe 1 out of 10, but he wants a guy willing to do it.

Skelton is crazy enough to do that sh*t.

 

[D-Dogg]

From the eye test, and given each guy's experience...Lindley was the best QB on the field tonight.

 

[Darkside]

From the eye test, and given each guy's experience...Lindley was the best QB on the field tonight.

Perhaps, but Lindley was going against the weakest chumps on the field tonight. Against guys trying to make even PS.

 

[az1965]

4/8, 56 yards, 7.0avg, 0 TD, 1 INT, 33.3 rating

Where did you get your stats from? I see following at both nfl.com and yahoo:

John Skelton(notes)3/6 35 yards 50.0% 5.8 y/a 1 sack 7 yards lost 0 TD 1 int 28.5 rating

 

[az1965]

Looked sharp to start. Had a pass dropped. As has Kolb so far. But hat int by Skelton was just awful.

yep, that was a terrible throw.

 

[D-Dogg]

Perhaps, but Lindley was going against the weakest chumps on the field tonight. Against guys trying to make even PS.

He came in before Bartel. Drove for a FG before halftime.

Not exactly fourth quarter scrubs.

 

[Evil Ash]

Where did you get your stats from? I see following at both nfl.com and yahoo:

John Skelton(notes)3/6 35 yards 50.0% 5.8 y/a 1 sack 7 yards lost 0 TD 1 int 28.5 rating

He's counting the pass that the officials (for whatever reason) didn't count because of pass interference.

 

[52brandon]

I'm with you man, but I have hope that Skelton is some freak thing that just happens. Brady happened, and his stats weren't stellar or anything and he wins a SB after taking over for Drew Bledsoe. I didn't even want him to take over, I thought it was wrong to Drew, at the time. It's only later that you realize how badass a player is. NE didn't realize man, they hoped. Later they realized. I'm praying and hoping Skelton is like that (because Kolb isn't).

Nobody knows what's in a dude's heart man. Skelton been waiting for this chance his whole life. He may play well enough to take us somewhere, and nobody can pretend to know. Because it's only obvious after it happens.

I hope you're right. I just haven't seen anything that gets my hopes up yet. I would LOVE to see him prove me wrong though. There's nothing I would like more than to see us already have our franchise QB on the roster, but I just don't see it, at least as of today...

 

[ARZCardinals]

It's another season of QB ugh
Disaster QB 1
Or disaster QB 2

Max hall or da?

These two qb's are a nightmare

 

[Duckjake]

It's another season of QB ugh
Disaster QB 1
Or disaster QB 2

Max hall or da?

These two qb's are a nightmare

Our $65 million dollar man is 2-9 for 25 yards no TDs and 1INT in the first two pre season games. I don't remember any Cardinal QB having that horrific a start. Well since we're talking about the Cardinals I'm sure It's happened before.

And to think that Leinart was run out of town after going 22-28 with a QB rating of 104.6 during the 2010 pre season.



At least Bartel is back on his pre season HOF pace going 5-6 for 69 yards and a TD pass.

 

[Gee!]

Where did you get your stats from? I see following at both nfl.com and yahoo:

John Skelton(notes)3/6 35 yards 50.0% 5.8 y/a 1 sack 7 yards lost 0 TD 1 int 28.5 rating

He's counting the pass that the officials (for whatever reason) didn't count because of pass interference.

I got them from the Cards app that was launched a month ago..

 

[Absolute Zero]

Ok, just start Lindley this year.

This.

Why not? The Cards have no future with Kolb or Skelton.

Only downside is Lindley getting seriously injured due to our crappy o-line.

 

[JeffGollin]

4/8, 56 yards, 7.0avg, 0 TD, 1 INT, 33.3 rating[/QUOTENfl.com game book had Skelton at 3 for 6 and 35 yards; 1 pick.

 

[Darkside]

I hope you're right. I just haven't seen anything that gets my hopes up yet. I would LOVE to see him prove me wrong though. There's nothing I would like more than to see us already have our franchise QB on the roster, but I just don't see it, at least as of today...

You're probably right and I'm probably totally reaching. I also drink a lot of koolaid--I'm an optimist by nature, especially with our own team. I've pretty much thought we were playoff-bound every year since they moved here, even when evidence suggested otherwise. Even when the suckage was so profound nobody could explain it in human language.

That being said, I don't know how anyone can say Skelton hasn't shown improvement. To me he has, and I've said he's improved every year with us. This year is no different. He's improved in fundamentals dramatically to my eye:

1. Footwork is vastly improved over last year. Last year he was a statue back there. And by that I mean no footwork at all unless he decided to run. Revisionist history in my opinion, to act like he hasn't improved in that area. Last year he rarely moved within the pocket, he let guys bounce off him or graze him and it threw his timing and passes off--I'm not saying he took unnecessary sacks, I'm saying he let arms and hands and such hit him--he even let his own offensive lineman bump into him--which wasn't enough to tackle him but threw off his passes. This year he's bouncing on his feet more and sliding within the pocket so that his passes are much more fundamentally sound. And not just a little, he's sliding a step or two within the pocket a lot more compared to last year and throwing off his back foot.

2. Hip rotation. Not as many arm throws so far in preseason. He's had several throws where he's getting the full windup and rotation of his torso. He had to make the arm throws last year because he wasn't "clean" in the pocket and didn't have the time to rotate everything. He was getting slapped and touched and bumped last year. This year he's scooting around a step or two and buying just enough time (split seconds) to rotate his body properly for the throw. To me this is the most dramatic improvement, and I attribute it to his feet more than anything. Best play for me last night was his side-step while the defender jumped over a guy and was flying at him. Wasn't just that he stepped aside, it was that he didn't stop looking downfield, didn't duck a shoulder at all (throwing off his form)--all he did was step aside to let the guy fly by him. That's all feet. His feet are miles better than last year. No comparison.

3. Accuracy. I think Rugby (?) is the one always saying he's aiming for the hot-dog vendor in the 3rd row. I can't think of a single throw so far in preseason that was just so off the mark we were like, wow, that was so bad. He had a tipped ball that was ugly (the defender was coming from behind after going wide, so he couldn't even see him). For the most part though they've been at least within range of the receivers hands. Again, he's not super-accurate, I'd never claim that, but he's way better than last year. I know in practice he was indeed horrible, so I've heard, but I haven't seen it in preseason. Most of his passes have been catchable.

I'm not saying Skeletor is the answer. But I'm pretty sure he's the answer for us this year, because Kolb has nothing better than Skelton at this point (except maybe back shoulder throws). Skelton can't seem to throw dudes open, but in every other area, I think he's going to be our QB this year. Is he a long-term answer, I've no clue. But I will say I think he deserves a real chance. Guys who improve every year don't come around all the time. Maybe it's simply because he had so much to improve on, but even if that's the case, his improvement has impressed me.

Killer Mentality: Skelton has an assassin attitude. To me he's just as aggressive and deadly as KW in that mental area. He obviously wants to just bury dudes. There's no hesitation or second thoughts or getting down on himself. I don't think that can be underestimated. It matters.

 

[JeffGollin]

4/8, 56 yards, 7.0avg, 0 TD, 1 INT, 33.3 rating

NFL.com game book had Skelton at 3 for 6 and 35 yards; 1 pick.

 

[BigRedRage]

On the hook pass to larry he threaded it between two defenders and thew the ball before larry turned around by anticipating the route. Great, great play

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Duckjake]

This.

Why not? The Cards have no future with Kolb or Skelton.

Only downside is Lindley getting seriously injured due to our crappy o-line.

We have a bright future with Double Deuce. So bright that I have to put on sunglasses when he comes in the game. By 2020 he'll be wearing his 4th NFC Championship ring. But you guys will want to run him out of town because he only won two SuperBowls after playing in 6 NFC Championship games.

 

[52brandon]

You're probably right and I'm probably totally reaching. I also drink a lot of koolaid--I'm an optimist by nature, especially with our own team. I've pretty much thought we were playoff-bound every year since they moved here, even when evidence suggested otherwise. Even when the suckage was so profound nobody could explain it in human language.

That being said, I don't know how anyone can say Skelton hasn't shown improvement. To me he has, and I've said he's improved every year with us. This year is no different. He's improved in fundamentals dramatically to my eye:

1. Footwork is vastly improved over last year. Last year he was a statue back there. And by that I mean no footwork at all unless he decided to run. Revisionist history in my opinion, to act like he hasn't improved in that area. Last year he rarely moved within the pocket, he let guys bounce off him or graze him and it threw his timing and passes off--I'm not saying he took unnecessary sacks, I'm saying he let arms and hands and such hit him--he even let his own offensive lineman bump into him--which wasn't enough to tackle him but threw off his passes. This year he's bouncing on his feet more and sliding within the pocket so that his passes are much more fundamentally sound. And not just a little, he's sliding a step or two within the pocket a lot more compared to last year and throwing off his back foot.

2. Hip rotation. Not as many arm throws so far in preseason. He's had several throws where he's getting the full windup and rotation of his torso. He had to make the arm throws last year because he wasn't "clean" in the pocket and didn't have the time to rotate everything. He was getting slapped and touched and bumped last year. This year he's scooting around a step or two and buying just enough time (split seconds) to rotate his body properly for the throw. To me this is the most dramatic improvement, and I attribute it to his feet more than anything. Best play for me last night was his side-step while the defender jumped over a guy and was flying at him. Wasn't just that he stepped aside, it was that he didn't stop looking downfield, didn't duck a shoulder at all (throwing off his form)--all he did was step aside to let the guy fly by him. That's all feet. His feet are miles better than last year. No comparison.

3. Accuracy. I think Rugby (?) is the one always saying he's aiming for the hot-dog vendor in the 3rd row. I can't think of a single throw so far in preseason that was just so off the mark we were like, wow, that was so bad. He had a tipped ball that was ugly (the defender was coming from behind after going wide, so he couldn't even see him). For the most part though they've been at least within range of the receivers hands. Again, he's not super-accurate, I'd never claim that, but he's way better than last year. I know in practice he was indeed horrible, so I've heard, but I haven't seen it in preseason. Most of his passes have been catchable.

I'm not saying Skeletor is the answer. But I'm pretty sure he's the answer for us this year, because Kolb has nothing better than Skelton at this point (except maybe back shoulder throws). Skelton can't seem to throw dudes open, but in every other area, I think he's going to be our QB this year. Is he a long-term answer, I've no clue. But I will say I think he deserves a real chance. Guys who improve every year don't come around all the time. Maybe it's simply because he had so much to improve on, but even if that's the case, his improvement has impressed me.

Killer Mentality: Skelton has an assassin attitude. To me he's just as aggressive and deadly as KW in that mental area. He obviously wants to just bury dudes. There's no hesitation or second thoughts or getting down on himself. I don't think that can be underestimated. It matters.

I completely agree. Kolb has shown nothing, aside from the fact that he's made of glass and skittish. Skelton stands in the pocket, and can take a hit. That already puts him above Kolb. Maybe/hopefully when Beanie and R-Will are in the game, it'll take some pressure off and he'll look better. He HAS shown improvement, but hasn't done anything to make me think he is capable of leading this team to a Super Bowl