Dr. Jones
Has No Time For Love
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Scud 2.
Some of those balls are still in orbit...
Some of those balls are still in orbit...
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Skelton looked awful
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Phrazbit
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Other than the TE staying healthy a bad QB can make all of those other aspects look worse than they are. There are teams with worse O-lines and worse receiving options than what the Cards have but are still winning because of their QB play.
The Cards have had a ferris wheel of crap at QB, guys who havnt succeeded anywhere and many of which no other team would take.
QB play is by far the teams biggest deficit. With competent QB play and better cover corners the Cards would have a pretty nasty team.
Evil Ash
Henchman Supreme
Vick and Rivers disagree with you. Those 2 QBs were in the elite category just a year ago but with problems with their Olines have become pretty average rather quickly.
Fans put WAY too much emphasis on the QB so much so that they ignore the rest of the problems with the team or give the QB credit when it isn't deserved. Football is the very definition of a team sport, if one part fails then you often don't have success.
The "if we had an elite QB" argument gets rather old after awhile - its just not that simple
AS I said a couple of weeks ago, give Skelton a few weeks behind this line and he will start looking like Kolb. Well it has happened. No QB will find success until they fix this offense and the offensive line.
Phrazbit
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Vick's entire career has been up and down. Rivers is struggling but have you watched their games? Its hard to blame the line when he is throwing the ball straight into the defense on a regular basis.
Fans do put a lot of emphasis on the QB, but its not like the Cards QBs have been "so-so" and the team is struggling. The guys we have ran out there are flat out HORRIBLE and their stats reflect it and if anything they are worse on film than they are in the stat sheet. If we were running guys out there who clearly have a lot of talent and they struggled its one thing, but these guys we are playing are freaking bums. Undrafted free agents, 5th round picks, a guy from the UFL, and an Andy Reid giveaway and Derek "Worst starting QB in recent NFL history" Anderson.
When you lay piles of crap at the QB position and then get "crap" play from them I am not willing to lay the blame on the rest of the roster for crap playing like crap.
I totally agree with you that good QB play can make some of these issues look better but your statement about the O-line is darn near laughable (IMHO). If the Cards aren't the worst pass blocking team in the NFL there are only one or two teams below them. That is the main issue for this team...and has been for decades.
Imagine how much better this team would be if Kolb or even Skelton had some time to throw and weren't shell-shocked and scared into happy feet syndrome on a regular basis.
I fully believe that the Cards are a competent pass blocking LT and a more consistent pass rush away from being a much better team. They could use an upgrade at SS and a number two WR as well but even still, that is just three or four guys until legitimacy is well within reach.
It will be interesting to see if the front office will allow that to transpire.
Evil Ash
Henchman Supreme
Again oversimplifying. You completely ignored other teams problems to prove a point.
If your Oline can't block then the Qbs don't have enough time to get read the defenses, play scared due to the endless beating they're taking, and often can affect mechanics as they have to rush the ball out. If you have problems at WR, it makes it easier for the defense to cover. If you don't run the ball, teams will not put that many people in the box and will go into coverage. Need I go on?
Out of 32 teams there are maybe 6 (with Peyton out 5) that have their QB position solved with an elite QB. Those QBs also aren't copy and paste in that they can fit into any offense (Brady and Manning have only run one offense their entire careers).
So I'm sorry but I find the "if we only had an elite QB" argument garbage and a complete oversimplification of everything.
Hard to argue when Kolb has 3TDs and 5ints in his last 4 games and Skelator has 0 TDs and 5ints in his last two.
Phrazbit
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And you are ignoring that these players have had the same problems in other places. Anderson didnt complete 50% of his passes his 2 years prior to being in Arizona. Kolb wouldnt stay in the pocket in Philly and his numbers there mirror his stats here.
And I am not talking about an "elite" QB. I am talking about a competent QB. Which we clearly lack.
You put garbage players at QB then expect garbage play from those players.
And Rivers biggest problems are his own inaccuracy and San Diego's complete lack of a running game.
Timm Rosenbach
Bye Bye DJ
I'd like to see us set up the pass with the run. I think that it is time for a change in offensive scheme to one that actually fits the roster that we have
Evil Ash
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With DA I won't argue. With Kolb and Skelton not enough of a sample size to say one way or the other (both have shown flashes of bad and flashes of good).
I don't know if either are the future. I really don't and neither do you.
I just get tired of this argument that we are a QB away when its not that simple. Young QBs especially developmental QBs are going to have a hard time regardless add in the rest of the problems with this team and well you see the result.
Our first priority in this offense is to fix the Oline and then judge the QB position. Even if the future QB is not on the roster we need some help desperately to protect him. Stick Luck behind this line and you're just investing for his time on IR
Evil Ash
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and why I keep mentioning this as a factor. Our Oline has a good reputation when it comes to run blocking, we have some talent at RB, we lack WR threats, and our QB is a question mark so we do the obvious thing and run the spread. Its a joke which sets up pretty much every QB to fail
Phrazbit
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Fair enough.
I agree, the edges of the line are not good. But watching these QBs we play consistently blow routine throws and make really bad reads, regardless of protection, makes me think that the overall problems with the offense stem from the guys running it.
And if we are going to go out and spend a 1st round pick on a tackle, they had better not reach for it again like they did with Levi. There are a lot of really good QB prospects in the 1st round, they better not take a 2nd round tackle prospect in the 1st just because they really want a tackle.
And I really hope Russ Grimm does not coach whoever they bring in... if we blow a 1st round pick on a tackle, then it turns out Levi just needed a better coach and excels on another team... I will puke.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Yeah, he's certainly not ready to start in this league. Given time to develop, I feel he may very well be able to, but not right now. Now we just have to pray that Kolb IS ready to start in this league, though I have grave doubts (pun intended).
Phrazbit
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Oh, and as to the "worst line in the league" question. Its gotta be Pittsburgh. They have been awful all year. Watch this game, they all fold like lawn-chairs on 80% of the snaps.
Someday people will just............................
Enjoy the moment!
Enjoy the moment!
I think our OL is bad but our QBs make them look far worse then they are. Stats back me up since we were in the top half of the league in fewest sacks allowed with Warner under center, yet he leaves and only a few minor changes take place on the OL and we fall back to the bottom. I find it hard to believe that mostly the same players went from top in the league to worst in 1 off-season all on their own.
Evil Ash
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I hate to break it to you but its not the same Oline. I'd kill for Gandy to be back here.
Gandy = adequate LT. Levi Brown = turnstile as a pass blocker
A big problem also is that our coaching staff still want to act as though Warner is under center and absolutely refuse to adjust to the talent they have
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Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
what he said, but Kolb is not soft...he just has not been playing any good because he does not seem to be comfortable out there and hopefully more time has given him a better grasp of the Cardinal offense
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bg7brd
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I don't think Skelton has been the same since he hurt his hand on a niners helmet last game. That might be affecting his throws. The one thing I'll say about him is that he rises to the occasion. He was atrocious on the 1st half but Big Red made some nice throws in the 2nd half.
Big Red made some nice throws in the 2nd half.
seesred
Registered User
I still believe in Kolb. I hope he can play these last games to see where he is at. If he can't do it head office we have a problem.
GBR
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GBR
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We need an experienced QB coach. The QB situation has been horrible this year and last year. When you see teams that take crappy QBs and make them look decent (San Fran, Miami) you have to hope the Cards kick Chris Miller to the curb after this season. He's shown no signs of making any of our QBs any better technique wise or game-adjustment wise.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Yeah OK...and the Broncos are winning the Super Bowl with Tim Teblow
This day & age if you haven't got a threat at QB and a pretty good one, chances are you aren't winning a Super Bowl
Dude... We're 4-7 right now. I get that the outset of every season's goal should be winning the Super Bowl, but if that's the only measure of success, than one team is successful every year, and the other 31 teams might as well just fire their coaches, right? Give me a break.
Chris Miller has to go. I'm not on board with Chopper in getting rid of Mike Miller, and there's no chance that Whis hands over his offense to a guy like Norv Turner and takes a back seat for administrative duties (which I don't want him working on at all, anyway--personnel decisions and such).
Why? What did Kolb show in the first 6 games that makes you believe in him?
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He had a few nice moments, but that is it. On the other hand, throwing in the towel on him at THIS point would be stupid.
I heard Spencer, the special teams coach, compare Skelton and Tebow in an interview last week. The question was only about Tebow, but Spencer said that just like Tebow, Skelton has an "it" factor.
That said, there is a huge difference between Tebow and Skelton in how they have played so far. Tebow has ONE turnover in five games. He has not put his defense in a bad spot at all. Skelton has 7 ints in the last three games and pretty much all of them put the D on a short field.
