Skelton or Kolb pt. II

[RugbyMuffin]

It's amazing how quickly people have rallied around Kevin Kolb, who has shown nothing except the ability to convince a coaching staff that loved Max Hall that he had talent.

You hear these EXACT SAME COMMENTS made six years ago--about Josh McCown.

Hey now......

Kolb has done a lot of good things for this team. Just ask Whiz!

"I'll have to look at the film," Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt said. "Kolb has done a good job for us this season. They've both had some games get squirrelly on them, but we haven't won on the East Coast in forever, so I'm just going to enjoy this right now."
Fitzgerald had two touchdown catches and made a sensational, over-the-shoulder diving catch to set up the go-ahead score in the fourth. He supported both QBs.
"I don't like to compare," he said. "That's not fair. Both of them, we feel we can win with and that's a good problem to have."

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20111...ack#tab=recap&recap=fullstory&menu=highlights

I said it last week, and I will say it this week.

This organization SUCKS!

 

[Bobcat]

Kevin Kolb is a SUNK COST, you can not make any decision based upon past money spent.

That is business 101. You make decisions based upon what is best for your organization MOVING FORWARD.

But unfortunately the B family is blinded by the Green. Old Mattress Money still rules. Wins seem to be meaningless to them. Only how much they can milk out of us, NFL, and the community.

Got ride of Matt, let DRC go let Dansby, Q, Rolle, Pace, just leave. Now that we have a possible QB of the future in John Skelton they have the perfect head coach to totally demoralize him in WhizenSTUPID...!!!

 

[conraddobler]

It would take outrageous stupidity to overlook what Skelton has done and go back to Kolb now.

That we do have though, that we do have.

 

[Chopper0080]

why?

A really good question, and a hard one to answer. In short, because the season is lost. Unfortunately, as an organization, you have to look at the big picture and you can't discount the adjustment time needed for Kolb to acclimate to the offense. You have to give Kolb every opportunity to succeed. He is the guy you chose, and the one you sold to your team. He has lost some very close games, which you can sell as his record isnt' as bad as it looks. You invested too much to get Kolb, and no one on this board can convince me that 7 games is enough to evaluate a new QB. And please, stop saying that "this player" is acclimating faster, or that "that player" looks more comfortable. You have to evaluate players in a bubble, otherwise you make poor moves. Maybe Whis will dial the offense back once he gets healthy,and Kolb will be more comfortable, and we will see the player that we thought we traded for. Mostky, you start Kolb because you can always go back to Skelton if Kolb doesn't pan out. However, if you stick with Skelton over a healthy Kolb, it undermines him from here on out. If Skelton had lit up the scoreboard, completed 60+% of his passes, and not the made boneheaded errors that he has, maybe then. But he hasn't, and again, I can't say that 7 games is enough to evaluate a QB you have invested a player, a draft pick, and millions of dollars into.

That's my reasoning, flame away.

 

[Phrazbit]

A really good question, and a hard one to answer. In short, because the season is lost. Unfortunately, as an organization, you have to look at the big picture and you can't discount the adjustment time needed for Kolb to acclimate to the offense. You have to give Kolb every opportunity to succeed. He is the guy you chose, and the one you sold to your team. He has lost some very close games, which you can sell as his record isnt' as bad as it looks. You invested too much to get Kolb, and no one on this board can convince me that 7 games is enough to evaluate a new QB. And please, stop saying that "this player" is acclimating faster, or that "that player" looks more comfortable. You have to evaluate players in a bubble, otherwise you make poor moves. Maybe Whis will dial the offense back once he gets healthy,and Kolb will be more comfortable, and we will see the player that we thought we traded for. Mostky, you start Kolb because you can always go back to Skelton if Kolb doesn't pan out. However, if you stick with Skelton over a healthy Kolb, it undermines him from here on out. If Skelton had lit up the scoreboard, completed 60+% of his passes, and not the made boneheaded errors that he has, maybe then. But he hasn't, and again, I can't say that 7 games is enough to evaluate a QB you have invested a player, a draft pick, and millions of dollars into.

That's my reasoning, flame away.

That is the best reasoning I've seen from someone trying to defend Kolb as the status quo.

I still have to disagree because I think that Kolb in AZ is the exact same player he was in Philadelphia and the idea that he isnt not the player they "thought they traded for" is not because he has regressed or struggled, just that the Cardinals badly misjudged his talent. But I can understand your stance.

I think Kolb is already in a position where his confidence is going to be completely toast whether he regains the starting job or not. I know guys claim they root for their teammates but I would have a really hard time imagining Kolb was excited to see Skelton roll down the field to win the game late. Now Kolb knows that his next home game will have the boo birds out en-mass. The instant he starts to struggle, leaves points on the field, takes a 15 yard sack ect, we are going to start hearing the "Skelton" chants, and it does not take more than a few weeks of that before the front office and coaches cave.

 

[desertdawg]

I want to see a full game played by the defense, with a good pass/rush ratio on the offense, and Kolb in SF. Whiz will probably bench him quick if he sucks but it's his job to lose right now. Kolb can make all the throws, he just runs around a lot right now.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I voted for Kolb last week but it has to be Skelton right now. He responded well to difficulties and never let the game get away from him.

 

[desertdawg]

I voted for Kolb last week but it has to be Skelton right now. He responded well to difficulties and never let the game get away from him.

I like Skelton, if he can start a game the way he does after making a mistake, we got something there. He is tough, big, can run, smart monucka, and is fully brainwashed into being Whiz's idea of a QB. Looks like he is watching Warner film the way he stood in there today and tried to hot fire passes over probowl defenders. I've always liked the guy, I found the 99 yard bomb on youtube (from his school) and posted it in here back in the day (might need Linderbee's help on finding that one). But homie threw some porkchopsandchunky today as well. Made me wanna slap my mama. I fear us not devoloping either because we want the good stuff so bad, right away.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am not sure either is partcularly good, but I want wins and I am willing to ride the hot hand.

 

[40yearfan]

you can not make any decision based upon past money spent.

That is business 101. You make decisions based upon what is best for your organization MOVING FORWARD.

Absolutey agree.

 

[Chopper0080]

That is the best reasoning I've seen from someone trying to defend Kolb as the status quo.

I still have to disagree because I think that Kolb in AZ is the exact same player he was in Philadelphia and the idea that he isnt not the player they "thought they traded for" is not because he has regressed or struggled, just that the Cardinals badly misjudged his talent. But I can understand your stance.

I think Kolb is already in a position where his confidence is going to be completely toast whether he regains the starting job or not. I know guys claim they root for their teammates but I would have a really hard time imagining Kolb was excited to see Skelton roll down the field to win the game late. Now Kolb knows that his next home game will have the boo birds out en-mass. The instant he starts to struggle, leaves points on the field, takes a 15 yard sack ect, we are going to start hearing the "Skelton" chants, and it does not take more than a few weeks of that before the front office and coaches cave.

and I can't say that Kolb is going to be an all pro, because he hasn't shown anything like that. Skelton has shown himself to be more comfortable in this offense than Kolb, fact. But, I haven't seen enough from Skelton to, in all reality, cut Kolb.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Kevin Kolb is a SUNK COST, you can not make any decision based upon past money spent.

That is business 101. You make decisions based upon what is best for your organization MOVING FORWARD.

Well said!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

It's amazing how quickly people have rallied around Kevin Kolb, who has shown nothing except the ability to convince a coaching staff that loved Max Hall that he had talent.

You hear these EXACT SAME COMMENTS made six years ago--about Josh McCown.

YEAH, I DONT GET IT; BLOK STINKS.

 

[kerouac9]

A really good question, and a hard one to answer. In short, because the season is lost. Unfortunately, as an organization, you have to look at the big picture and you can't discount the adjustment time needed for Kolb to acclimate to the offense. You have to give Kolb every opportunity to succeed. He is the guy you chose, and the one you sold to your team. He has lost some very close games, which you can sell as his record isnt' as bad as it looks. You invested too much to get Kolb, and no one on this board can convince me that 7 games is enough to evaluate a new QB. And please, stop saying that "this player" is acclimating faster, or that "that player" looks more comfortable. You have to evaluate players in a bubble, otherwise you make poor moves. Maybe Whis will dial the offense back once he gets healthy,and Kolb will be more comfortable, and we will see the player that we thought we traded for. Mostky, you start Kolb because you can always go back to Skelton if Kolb doesn't pan out. However, if you stick with Skelton over a healthy Kolb, it undermines him from here on out. If Skelton had lit up the scoreboard, completed 60+% of his passes, and not the made boneheaded errors that he has, maybe then. But he hasn't, and again, I can't say that 7 games is enough to evaluate a QB you have invested a player, a draft pick, and millions of dollars into.

That's my reasoning, flame away.

But you've said that you don't think that we'll see Kolb at 100% until he gets a full offseason in the system. If that's the case, what are we going to learn by running him out there and letting him take 4 sacks a game and complete 48% of his passes? Is he going to get better for being booed at home, going 1-11 for the season, and have questions asked about him all offseason?

Bill Parcells said it best: When a player shows you who he is, believe him. Kolb isn't a very good quarterback. He's a 5th year veteran who apparently is great in the meeting room but awful on the field. He's just not a winner at the NFL level, and twice now his backup has come in and been more productive than he has.

I said it all offseason, but it's worth repeating: The biggest loss in the Kolb trade wasn't DRC or even our second-round pick. The biggest loss in the Kolb trade is that it prevents us from drafting one of the highly rated QB prospects in the 2012 NFL draft. Next year, we're going to be stuck with Kevin Kolb and John Skelton and the hope that one of them will get much better.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I said it all offseason, but it's worth repeating: The biggest loss in the Kolb trade wasn't DRC or even our second-round pick. The biggest loss in the Kolb trade is that it prevents us from drafting one of the highly rated QB prospects in the 2012 NFL draft. Next year, we're going to be stuck with Kevin Kolb and John Skelton and the hope that one of them will get much better.

I agree with this but I also see the Cards side of things. They thought/think that they could win this year with Kolb and you have to play to win this year, especialy in what looked like a very winnable division.

 

[Totally_Red]

I've switched from KK to JS. The kid did cost the team 10 points on two very costly interceptions Sunday, but he also has been clutch in the fourth quarter and doesn't let his mistakes fluster him.

The fact that the defense (and special teams against the Rams) is largely responsible for both wins does not negate the fact that John Boy is performing in the clutch, and Kolb has not so far. It's time to see if Skelton can take the next step against a tough defense.

After the way yesterday went, maybe Andy will reverse the trade and take back his beloved KK. I am more than willing.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree with this but I also see the Cards side of things. They thought/think that they could win this year with Kolb and you have to play to win this year, especialy in what looked like a very winnable division.

But they were desperately wrong about winning this year with Kolb. People on this board could see that even if Kolb was as talented as the Cards thought he was, he wasn't going to be successful without an offseason. Who bears responsibility for that among the Arizona Cardinals?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

But they were desperately wrong about winning this year with Kolb. People on this board could see that even if Kolb was as talented as the Cards thought he was, he wasn't going to be successful without an offseason. Who bears responsibility for that among the Arizona Cardinals?

They saw their problem and adressed it. I see nothing wrong with that. If that's the case any QB was going to come in and struggle with no off season. Are you saying we should have just sat around and went with Skelton?

 

[Chopper0080]

But you've said that you don't think that we'll see Kolb at 100% until he gets a full offseason in the system. If that's the case, what are we going to learn by running him out there and letting him take 4 sacks a game and complete 48% of his passes? Is he going to get better for being booed at home, going 1-11 for the season, and have questions asked about him all offseason?

Bill Parcells said it best: When a player shows you who he is, believe him. Kolb isn't a very good quarterback. He's a 5th year veteran who apparently is great in the meeting room but awful on the field. He's just not a winner at the NFL level, and twice now his backup has come in and been more productive than he has.

I said it all offseason, but it's worth repeating: The biggest loss in the Kolb trade wasn't DRC or even our second-round pick. The biggest loss in the Kolb trade is that it prevents us from drafting one of the highly rated QB prospects in the 2012 NFL draft. Next year, we're going to be stuck with Kevin Kolb and John Skelton and the hope that one of them will get much better.

Yes, he will be better for all of the struggles that he experiences this year because it will give him in game film to evaluate himself. Also, don't discount what watching Skelton from the sideline can do for a QB. Now he sees what the offense should look like from a pocket stand point, and how the routes all come together.

Look, I am as disappointed in Kolb as anyone on this board, but I can't just cut him now which is what starting Skelton over him now would do. Worse case is that Kolb struggles over the rest of the year and we have an open competition for QB next year between Kolb and Skelton without any excuses.

 

[Chopper0080]

They saw their problem and adressed it. I see nothing wrong with that. If that's the case any QB was going to come in and struggle with no off season. Are you saying we should have just sat around and went with Skelton?

This is true. There isn't anyway Fitz or the fans were going into this season with Skelton as the starter. They made a move to get a QB who, to date, has underwhelmed. I think that it is too early to write him off already, but worse case Skelton wins the job next season.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Next year, we're going to be stuck with Kevin Kolb and John Skelton and the hope that one of them will get much better.

I wonder about this. If Kolb gets starts and continues to suck, and Skelton doesn't look any better, perhaps the team will believe it doesn't have the answer at QB and make a move. (Of course this is rationalizing a reasonable position, which considering the Cards, is unreasonable in nature)

 

[Dback Jon]

This is true. There isn't anyway Fitz or the fans were going into this season with Skelton as the starter. They made a move to get a QB who, to date, has underwhelmed. I think that it is too early to write him off already, but worse case Skelton wins the job next season.

Some of us wanted Skelton as the starter.

Some of us saw that he was the better QB of the two.

And when you throw in the lost draft pick, and all the money tied up in Kolb, it should have been a no-brainer NOT to do this trade.

 

[Chopper0080]

Some of us wanted Skelton as the starter.

Some of us saw that he was the better QB of the two.

And when you throw in the lost draft pick, and all the money tied up in Kolb, it should have been a no-brainer NOT to do this trade.

It's easy to say that you liked Skelton more when you don't have to sell it to fans, players and the media.

We made a move to get a starting QB (the most important player on the team) and it hasn't looked like a great move. Thankfully, Skelton has got us two wins, so we might have a different answer to the same problem.

 

[conraddobler]

I can't say that I thought the Kolb trade was that bad but I hadn't seen Kolb play for us.

I wasn't happy with the idea of the pick and the player, the player we got rid of I wasn't that fond of.

The pick hurt the worst but none of it was that terrible if you thought Kolb would play well for us which obviously they did.

The error in all of this seems to be in evaluation of QB's, which we all should of seen comming after the Matt, DA, Hall, Skelton mess last year.

It seems we suck at finding QB's to a great extent. Maybe Skelton is redeeming that a little since we did draft him but even he's marginal at best.

The overally story here is how pathetic we are at finding QB's, Warner was to a large degree very lucky, I'll give everyone that but even if I do after Warner we're back to our old ways of really sucking at finding a QB.

 

[WildBB]

A really good question, and a hard one to answer. In short, because the season is lost.

OK hold it right there!

The season WAS lost two weeks ago. NOW lets see!