This. A rookie QB with a steep developmental curve won't see the field with Whiz as coach unless injuries happen. Drafting Newton or Mallet or Locker would make them clipboard holders. Luck would probably beat out Skelton. Blaine might too.
Skelton, what to do?
- Thread starter Cbus cardsfan
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This. A rookie QB with a steep developmental curve won't see the field with Whiz as coach unless injuries happen. Drafting Newton or Mallet or Locker would make them clipboard holders. Luck would probably beat out Skelton. Blaine might too.
Agreed.
But when will we get a TE that can catch a ball that's right in their hands? I have never seen so many easy passes dropped.
Catfish
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YES, YES, AND NO. You pass on a high draft pick QB. You continue to develop Skelton to be our QBOF. You trade down, (instead of up), so that we get multiple chances to succeed in the draft. You draft BPA, and use free agency to take a solid journeyman QB to either back up Skelton, or to lead the team while you continue to develop Skelton. That is by far the best use of our money and the position of power that we have achieved for the upcoming draft.
This allows us to avoid paying big money for a top five pick, yet being in a position of having that fail. That money is better used on a proven vet in FA, and spreading it out in BPA picks throughout the draft. Good ones like Dan Williams, Daryl Washington, John Skelton, and O'Brian Schoefield will fall to us if we trade down to gain more picks, thereby mitigating our chances of success through more selections.
We made a really bad choice at QB this past year, and we need to move on from that and go back to what we did well. Draft BPA, and use Free Agency to fill need.
az jam
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We will sign a veteran qb. That is a given. We won't get Luck. This draft class has many good qbs. I am starting to lean on picking BPA with our first pick (which probably would not be a qb) and drafting a qb in round 2 or 3. Luck, Newton & Mallert will go in the first round. Locker could drop to the 2nd and then there are some decent qbs - Ponder, Stanzi, Devlin maybe Gabbert.
Why not get the best defensive player on the board when we pick and then get go and get a qb. We could even trade up if one falls that we really like as we did to get Washington last year.
Why not get the best defensive player on the board when we pick and then get go and get a qb. We could even trade up if one falls that we really like as we did to get Washington last year.
Cardiac
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What has been the biggest problem on this years team?
If you didn't answer QB then it's time to attend FB 101.
Which position is the most important on any team?
See answer to the first question.
Which position is most important to getting to the SB, especially if taken in Rd 1 of the draft?
Number 1 overall picks at QB that have played in a SB is 11, 8 were the winners. These QB's have accounted for 15 wins, that's about 30% of the SB's by my math.
QB's drafted in rd 1 (excluding the #1 overall picks) that played in a SB is 20 accounting for another 9 SB wins.
So every QB drafted in Rd1 to play in a SB is 26 totalling 24 wins and 22 losses. 44 SB's with 2 QB's per game = 88. 46 of those starts were QB's drafted in Rd1 which is 52%.
Rd 2: 3 QB's with 3 wins and 3 losses.
Rd 3: 6 QB's with 4 wins and 6 losses.
Rd 4: 4 QB's with 1 win and 3 losses
Rd 5: None, Cards break the curse with John Skeleton.
Rd 6: 5 QB's with 4 wins & 3 losses. Lottery odds winner Tom Brady skews this # with 4 SB appearances.
Rd 7: None
All those after Rd 7: 10 QB's with 8 wins and 7 losses.
I have not gone back to see how many QB's were drafted in Rd1 and 1st overall who didn't make it to the SB because that's not the point. If you want to get to the SB picking a QB #1 overall gives you the best odds and taking one in Rd1 is your next best chance.
Which position should the Cards strongly consider in rd 1?
If you didn't answer QB then it's time to attend FB 101.
Which position is the most important on any team?
See answer to the first question.
Which position is most important to getting to the SB, especially if taken in Rd 1 of the draft?
Number 1 overall picks at QB that have played in a SB is 11, 8 were the winners. These QB's have accounted for 15 wins, that's about 30% of the SB's by my math.
QB's drafted in rd 1 (excluding the #1 overall picks) that played in a SB is 20 accounting for another 9 SB wins.
So every QB drafted in Rd1 to play in a SB is 26 totalling 24 wins and 22 losses. 44 SB's with 2 QB's per game = 88. 46 of those starts were QB's drafted in Rd1 which is 52%.
Rd 2: 3 QB's with 3 wins and 3 losses.
Rd 3: 6 QB's with 4 wins and 6 losses.
Rd 4: 4 QB's with 1 win and 3 losses
Rd 5: None, Cards break the curse with John Skeleton.
Rd 6: 5 QB's with 4 wins & 3 losses. Lottery odds winner Tom Brady skews this # with 4 SB appearances.
Rd 7: None
All those after Rd 7: 10 QB's with 8 wins and 7 losses.
I have not gone back to see how many QB's were drafted in Rd1 and 1st overall who didn't make it to the SB because that's not the point. If you want to get to the SB picking a QB #1 overall gives you the best odds and taking one in Rd1 is your next best chance.
Which position should the Cards strongly consider in rd 1?
Do we really want to head into next season with basically two rookie QB's again?
We need to pick up a competent NFL Qb to either take over of compete for the job with Skelton. A couple of guys that come to mind are Kyle Orton ( not sure if he's a free agent) or even Rex Grossman. Both are better qb's than DA.
There are a couple of things I like about Skelton.
1. He is doing what he is doing with 3 weeks of starting.
2. He has huddle presence. Not one delay of game penalty since he has been playing.
3. It takes more than a brush on the shoulder to take him down.
4. He seems unflappable. I remember when a pass by Hall was dropped he would jump up spin around and grimmace. Not Skelton, and lord knows he's had more than a few passes dropped.
5. He has some guts. There are many balls he could have just thrown away and we would praise him for doing so, but he has taken some shots in tight places and put the ball only where his receiver was going to make the catch or it's incomplete.
6. He has some touch on his throws.
Does this mean he is a QBOF? Don't know. But he has shown more intangibles in 3 games than DA or Hall has shown all year.
If I was making the call I would start by getting us the best LB available in free agency. I'm not talking middle tier either ( Chad Greenway?).
In the draft I would go after the biggest baddest pass rusher in college football. Can you imagine how much better this defense could be if we had a top notch DE? Imagine freeing up Campbell to play anywhere along the LOS. Imagine the match up nightmare for opponent's offensive lines.
Washington is only getting better. Williams is only getting better. Schofield will be a starter on this team next year. Johnson is starting to get it at the safety position. DRC and Toler are a pretty good tandem of CB's.
In the second round draft a run stuffing ILB.
As inept as this offense was this year, the importance of having a top 10 defense can't be over emphasized. We no longer can count on our offense scoring 30 points a game and no matter who is our QB next year it's not going to be a wide open offense like we had with Warner. Drafting a QB will not make this team better next year.
We need to pick up a competent NFL Qb to either take over of compete for the job with Skelton. A couple of guys that come to mind are Kyle Orton ( not sure if he's a free agent) or even Rex Grossman. Both are better qb's than DA.
There are a couple of things I like about Skelton.
1. He is doing what he is doing with 3 weeks of starting.
2. He has huddle presence. Not one delay of game penalty since he has been playing.
3. It takes more than a brush on the shoulder to take him down.
4. He seems unflappable. I remember when a pass by Hall was dropped he would jump up spin around and grimmace. Not Skelton, and lord knows he's had more than a few passes dropped.
5. He has some guts. There are many balls he could have just thrown away and we would praise him for doing so, but he has taken some shots in tight places and put the ball only where his receiver was going to make the catch or it's incomplete.
6. He has some touch on his throws.
Does this mean he is a QBOF? Don't know. But he has shown more intangibles in 3 games than DA or Hall has shown all year.
If I was making the call I would start by getting us the best LB available in free agency. I'm not talking middle tier either ( Chad Greenway?).
In the draft I would go after the biggest baddest pass rusher in college football. Can you imagine how much better this defense could be if we had a top notch DE? Imagine freeing up Campbell to play anywhere along the LOS. Imagine the match up nightmare for opponent's offensive lines.
Washington is only getting better. Williams is only getting better. Schofield will be a starter on this team next year. Johnson is starting to get it at the safety position. DRC and Toler are a pretty good tandem of CB's.
In the second round draft a run stuffing ILB.
As inept as this offense was this year, the importance of having a top 10 defense can't be over emphasized. We no longer can count on our offense scoring 30 points a game and no matter who is our QB next year it's not going to be a wide open offense like we had with Warner. Drafting a QB will not make this team better next year.
What has been the biggest problem on this years team?
If you didn't answer QB then it's time to attend FB 101.
Which position is the most important on any team?
See answer to the first question.
Which position is most important to getting to the SB, especially if taken in Rd 1 of the draft?
Number 1 overall picks at QB that have played in a SB is 11, 8 were the winners. These QB's have accounted for 15 wins, that's about 30% of the SB's by my math.
QB's drafted in rd 1 (excluding the #1 overall picks) that played in a SB is 20 accounting for another 9 SB wins.
So every QB drafted in Rd1 to play in a SB is 26 totalling 24 wins and 22 losses. 44 SB's with 2 QB's per game = 88. 46 of those starts were QB's drafted in Rd1 which is 52%.
Rd 2: 3 QB's with 3 wins and 3 losses.
Rd 3: 6 QB's with 4 wins and 6 losses.
Rd 4: 4 QB's with 1 win and 3 losses
Rd 5: None, Cards break the curse with John Skeleton.
Rd 6: 5 QB's with 4 wins & 3 losses. Lottery odds winner Tom Brady skews this # with 4 SB appearances.
Rd 7: None
All those after Rd 7: 10 QB's with 8 wins and 7 losses.
I have not gone back to see how many QB's were drafted in Rd1 and 1st overall who didn't make it to the SB because that's not the point. If you want to get to the SB picking a QB #1 overall gives you the best odds and taking one in Rd1 is your next best chance.
Which position should the Cards strongly consider in rd 1?
HEre is my problem with drafting a QB. If your a team like the Rams or Lions that won 1 or 2 games , you've got the first pick and their is a QB available, you take him.
However, if you are drafting 12th you don't take a shot at someone who is a "project". We have enough talent on this team that , witha few shrewd acquisitions and a solid draft will have us back on top in the West next year.
So, if we are going to draft our QBOF like Luck, then do whatever you have to do to get him,( which would be too much) or bring in a COMPETENT veteran Qb to compete with Skelton and shore up the obvious other shortcomings without giving up a slew of draft picks to get your frsanchise QB.
Cardiac
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Without looking it up I doubt the Colts, Eagles or Patriots have a top 10 D. I would say that the Eagles and Pats are on many peoples short list to be in the SB this year. What wins championships is the QB and we won't find that in FA and I'm not going all in on Skelton at this point.
Next year is just one year and I'd rather know we have done everything possible to set us up for success over the next 10 to 15 years.
RugbyMuffin
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John Skelton
I think we all need to take a step back. We signed Skelton for 5 years. There is no need to rush into the situation at all.
If Luck is as good as everyone says he is, and he is available, which this up coming year is no certainty. He might not come out for the draft, and if he does he will probably not be there when the Cardinals step up to the podium. But, if Luck is without a doubt the next Manning, then you must take him. Again, Skelton is here for another 4 years, cheap, and has proven to be at the very least, and at this point and time, a quality #2 QB.
In my extremely humble opinion, we sign a vet QB, for two years. Make Skelton our #2, and draft a "Back-up for life" QB.
Skelton is playing very much like an unpolished rookie. His arm strength is there, his head is in the right place, but he has to get smarter (NFL QB wise), have better footwork, which will improve his accuracy.
His accuracy is not horrible but it needs to be polished. There is a difference between DA' horrific accuracy and Skeltons. Where DA is missing players by feet, Skelton misses by inches.
You can not play a QB who is completing under 50% of his passes and who still has an inability to convert on 3rd down.
I think Skelton can be a QBOF, just not next year, or maybe even the year after that.
But, IF he can be polished, he can be good, really good. You look at the plays he made today. The scramble, and the 4th down throw, and after a year of watching horrendous QB play, you can see this kid has want it takes.
Just needs a little polish.
:fireball:
I think we all need to take a step back. We signed Skelton for 5 years. There is no need to rush into the situation at all.
If Luck is as good as everyone says he is, and he is available, which this up coming year is no certainty. He might not come out for the draft, and if he does he will probably not be there when the Cardinals step up to the podium. But, if Luck is without a doubt the next Manning, then you must take him. Again, Skelton is here for another 4 years, cheap, and has proven to be at the very least, and at this point and time, a quality #2 QB.
In my extremely humble opinion, we sign a vet QB, for two years. Make Skelton our #2, and draft a "Back-up for life" QB.
Skelton is playing very much like an unpolished rookie. His arm strength is there, his head is in the right place, but he has to get smarter (NFL QB wise), have better footwork, which will improve his accuracy.
His accuracy is not horrible but it needs to be polished. There is a difference between DA' horrific accuracy and Skeltons. Where DA is missing players by feet, Skelton misses by inches.
You can not play a QB who is completing under 50% of his passes and who still has an inability to convert on 3rd down.
I think Skelton can be a QBOF, just not next year, or maybe even the year after that.
But, IF he can be polished, he can be good, really good. You look at the plays he made today. The scramble, and the 4th down throw, and after a year of watching horrendous QB play, you can see this kid has want it takes.
Just needs a little polish.
:fireball:
Skelton has played two games and he is our QBOTF? You are willing to go into next season with him based on just two games neither of which he threw for over 200 yids. The guy may turn out to be good and he may be just another #2 or #3. There are a couple of rookie QBs that are clearly QBOTF out there. Have a look at the Rams rookie QB and you will see what a real QBOTF looks like. If we have a shot at any of the top three QBs we are foolish if we do not take one. That without question is our greatest need and every announcer who has called our games says the same thing. We are what we are because we have no QBs. There is no one defensive player in this league that could turn this team into a winner. There are QBs who would make us very competitive just as a Kurt Warner did. All teams need a good QB if they hope to compete for a playoff spot. Period! Not a QB of the future but a QB now.
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Yes, indeed. And that's why I'm saying that position has to be seriously considerd in round 1 if the best OT in the draft is available at our spot. Also, we need to seriously consider taking a great pass rusher at that spot too.
Skelton does have the tools and he could turn out to be good. The odds are against a 5th round pick ever being an elite QB. The big question is how he will progress. We are talking about a guy who has played only two games. You do not make QBOTF decisions based on that amount of playing time. Obviously a lot teams did not see a lot in him based on his college experience. Let us see how he progresses next year and how he does in camp when he (hopefully) competes against a competent NFL QB. We just do not know enough about Skelton at this time. He could be the QBOTF or the QB from hell?
conraddobler
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I think with Skelton what we have locked down is our project QB, you should always have one of these.
So now we need a FA vet and we should draft one if available, if we don't draft one and we don't sign a quality FA vet we should be shot.
So now we need a FA vet and we should draft one if available, if we don't draft one and we don't sign a quality FA vet we should be shot.
I think you hit the nail dead center. I think how we draft and who we sign as a FA QB will tell us a lot about whether we are the old Cards or the new cards. We have a new state of the art sold out stadium. The team should be making big money.
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Same here, if we can't get Luck, we should be picking BPA and really hoping that BPA is a pass rusher or an OT.
You can make arguments for the CB Peterson or for a lot of other spots too but I see those and QB as the big 3 and I see Luck as the only clear cut you must take him if you get a chance QB on the board.
OP
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Do we have our QBOF? Notice the question mark. Where did you get from that I said Skelton is the guy? I said IF you already have a QBOF, there's no reason to draft another one. That would be like the Rams taking Luck because he's the #1 player, makes no sense.
JCSunsfan
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This is a deep draft for quarterbacks and the qb position is still quite unanswered for the Cards, it would be foolish not to take the best one available early. Any one of the top 4 or so quarterbacks have the potential to be franchise types.
I am all for Cam Newton. He has the size, strength, arm, accuracy, mobility, and he has won at every level. I just don't see what the big risk is. The off-the-field stuff has been picayune stuff. He does not have major injury history and no drugs or stuff like that. To me, its a no-brainer.
I am high on Skelton, he could be the qb of the future, but having some competition on training camp is a good thing. I would love to go into training camp next year with Skelton, Newton, and an experience journeyman vet for the qb's on our roster.
I am all for Cam Newton. He has the size, strength, arm, accuracy, mobility, and he has won at every level. I just don't see what the big risk is. The off-the-field stuff has been picayune stuff. He does not have major injury history and no drugs or stuff like that. To me, its a no-brainer.
I am high on Skelton, he could be the qb of the future, but having some competition on training camp is a good thing. I would love to go into training camp next year with Skelton, Newton, and an experience journeyman vet for the qb's on our roster.
CaptTurbo
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Draft best QB we can and let Skelton fight it out. Even if Skelton wins out you can go wrong with a great prospect up for trade. Maybe get a real lineman or two for him.
conraddobler
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Some of the stuff goes deep into his character IMO, no way on Cam Newton, no way.
He's an awesome college QB, that dosen't mean much in the NFL.
Running QB's in the NFL are a tease, they only become worthwhile when they learn to run very sparingly because running a lot makes them a RB and that shortens their careers down to that of a RB which averages about three years or less.
As a pure pocket passer he drops a ton of notches in my eyes.
http://nflsoup.com/?p=5878
I would not waste a first round pick on him, let someone else do that, someone will and I predict he'll have a great year or two then he'll get hurt.
JCSunsfan
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What goes deep into his character? He purchased a stolen lapton (very possibly unknowingly) and then panicked when he found out it was stolen. Rumor was that his dad was asking for cash for him to sign coming out of JC. But his dad never really asked for cash, only someone who claimed to be a representative of his dad. It is pretty evident that he knew nothing about it.
As far as running qb's. Yes, qb's from running offenses are a mirage. The old option types. But qb's who can both pass and run are another matter. John Elway, Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, Mike Vick, were/are all versatile qb's who could run and were quite effective.
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conraddobler
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I wouldn't be unhappy if we got a great player in round one that was NOT a QB.
We still should take a QB in this draft though IMO.
We could package our 2nd and move back into the 1st round, in fact I'd love to package Fitz by sending him to a good team "he's got a no trade clause you have to work around, he's not going to a bad team", take their picks they give for him then use those to get Luck if we can, if that dosen't work then I'd be looking at what QB I could get with round two or comming back into round one to get another shot at a QB at a good manageable spot.
Our stock of QB's is too low, we can't just bandaid that position with FA I don't think.
seesred
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Lt, DE, Corner. QB a vet with starting potintial if Skelton doesn't get it through Training camps and pre season games.
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The FO already knows they don't want DA back and you have to assume the Max Hall experiment won't get a second year, so you have to assume they'll draft a QB at some point just because the depth chart demands it. I can see them drafting a QB and signing another veteran. The debate isn't if the Cards will draft a QB, but in what round. Recent history suggests they won't use a high pick on a QB.
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I think the average person who bought a stolen laptop they didn't know was stolen wouldn't panic and try to throw it out a window to avoid getting caught. I also think the average person who bought a laptop wouldn't paint it black and then put their name on it in big white block letters. I think most would assume it was painted over to hide the drawing the original owner said he painted on it so if it was ever stolen, it'd be easy to identify. I don't know if Cam painted it or the person he bought it from did but from the descriptions it was VERY obvious it'd been painted which I think would make most of us suspicious?
Here's a Florida paper story right after it happened, I have a VERY hard time believing he didn't know something was up. FYI Newton claims he bought the laptop for $120 after a
guy who sells stuff out of the back of his car asked Newton if he needed anything and he said I need a laptop.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20081121/NEWS/811210286
Computer is on his desk, asks police for time to meet with his lawyer in private, when police return, computer is not on his desk and is later found in a dumpster?
Doesn't make him the worst person ever but there is a pattern with the kid, academic fraud allegations, laptop, the money stuff.
Also the NCAA has already ruled the dad asked for money so they obviously had some information that said he did, not just someone claiming to represent him.
Young kids make mistakes but when you're picking really high in the draft you have to really focus on every detail.
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