Skinner works out for Suns

[DevonCardsFan]

Skinner would be a great addition!!

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I too would prefer skinner + batista over pj.

I never really got on the PJ bandwagon, i didnt mind either way, but i think those two would be a better choice than an oldies on limbo with retirement.

If anyone here ever catches me debating between joining the suns for one final playoff run or retirement, shoot me in the knee.

 

[azirish]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0921suns0922.html

Skinner sets sights on Suns

Veteran wants to play for a title contender

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Sept. 21, 2007 07:44 PM
Center Brian Skinner and the Suns do not have a contract, but they have agreed on one thing: Each is at the top of the other's wish list.

The Suns likely will not fill their reserve big-man void until at least Monday but would feel complete and content to have Skinner signed up for their Oct. 2-7 training camp.

Skinner is weighing one other NBA offer. Phoenix's trio of candidates - Skinner, Esteban Batista and Vitaly Potapenko - are vying for as much of a guaranteed contract as possible in a market that includes teams over or near the tax threshold.

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Skinner, 31, is considered the best and most proven player of the three because he can give the Suns defense and rebounding and keep up with their up-tempo style. The Suns considered adding two big men for camp, but signing Skinner would make that unnecessary.

Skinner, who started 44 games for the Milwaukee Bucks last season, worked out in Phoenix on Thursday and said the Suns are at "the top of my list" because they are a title contender. He turned down a better offer this summer from a non-contender.

A report out of Uruguay that said Batista, 24, would visit Phoenix was wrong, but the Suns saw enough of him at the recent FIBA Americas Championship in Las Vegas, where he averaged 20.8 points and 12.4 rebounds per game.

Batista played 13 games for the Atlanta Hawks last season, and his other possible destination appears to be Boston. Potapenko, 32, visited Phoenix last week.

Whoever the Suns sign likely would not get a fully guaranteed contract.

The Suns initially targeted P.J. Brown after trading Kurt Thomas, but Brown, who turns 38 in October, is leaning toward retirement.

IMHO, Skinner is the best available big. If the Suns sign him, it means that they are giving up on PJ for the time being because signing him might discourage PJ from coming to Phoenix.

Skinner is far from ideal, but unlike Potapenko and Batista, he's been productive in the last few years and can run the floor. He's a career 0.259 per minute rebounder and rebounds at the same rate on low minutes and high minutes. He has no range on his shot, but shoots 80% from point blank. The only downside is his free throw shooting, which is just awful, and has been for his entire career.

http://www.hoopshype.com/players/brian_skinner.htm

An athletic banger... Very strong... Very good rebounding ability... Very active defender... Decent offensive player... Bad from the foul line.

IMHO, adding Skinner would be like adding a shorter but tougher version of Hunter.

 

[Mainstreet]

Whoever the Suns sign likely would not get a fully guaranteed contract.

The Suns need to sign Skinner now if he is available at near the veteran minimum. The Suns want to wait until Monday? This tap dancing with money is driving me crazy. Skinner is already a proven veteran. The Suns would be lucky to get him with apparently PJ nearly out of the picture.

 

[elindholm]

This is a good signing if it goes through. Skinner is an excellent per-minute rebounder and, except at the free-throw line, doesn't hurt his team offensively. He has a reputation as a pretty good post defender, but I don't know how accurate that is. Although he has never been a high-minutes player, even when starting, he seems able to log more floor time when necessary.

I'd rather have Brown's superior length, savvy, and durability, but Skinner is a pretty respectable third option (the first option having been to keep Thomas).

 

[fordronken]

IMHO, adding Skinner would be like adding a shorter but tougher version of Hunter.

Isn't tall and soft kind of a definition of Steven Hunter? It's like calling Hedo Turkoglu a "taller, slower version of Barbosa".

 

[Bufalay]

Isn't tall and soft kind of a definition of Steven Hunter? It's like calling Hedo Turkoglu a "taller, slower version of Barbosa".

my turn! Malik Rose is a less athletic, more physical version of Shawn Marion.

 

[Scot1]

I can't remember if someone has said this on another thread (I don't doubt it), but isn't it embarrassing to be in this situation? It seems like we, one of the best teams with a good chance to win it all in '08 (barring more villainy by Stern et al.), are competing hard to lure the haughty dregs of the NBA here. Every player who was once at the top of our wish list signed with somebody else. Brown, who may be our best chance, apparently is deeply torn between playing another season with a winning, fun club and flat retiring. Kirilenko would rather go play in Russia, for crying out loud. Is this place simply the litterbox of America?

 

[azirish]

Isn't tall and soft kind of a definition of Steven Hunter? It's like calling Hedo Turkoglu a "taller, slower version of Barbosa".

Sort of. My point was that Hunter did a credible job for the Suns dispite having limited offensive skills because he ran the floor so well. In reviewing stats, it does not appear there is any area where Hunter is better, since even his main strength which is shot blocking is not dramatically better than Skinner (1.1 per game compared to 1.0 in very similar minutes); but Skinner is almost a full rebound a game better than Hunter.

Is Skinner an "elite" player? Hardly. He's mostly a career backup who has averaged 19.3 minutes a game for his career. But he's a physical defender who is a solid rebounder and runs the floor well. I think he could help and hope the Suns don't screw it up.

 

[elindholm]

Every player who was once at the top of our wish list signed with somebody else.

The only player at the top of the wish list was Brown, who hasn't signed anywhere. The other signings have been players in which the Suns had little or no interest.

Brown, who may be our best chance, apparently is deeply torn between playing another season with a winning, fun club and flat retiring.

True, but it's understandable, given his age and family situation. Maybe he recognizes that he can't play basketball forever, and doesn't even want to.

Kirilenko would rather go play in Russia, for crying out loud.

There is zero evidence that the Suns have pursued Kirilenko since his recent outburst, and even if they have, they need Utah's cooperation, not the player's.

Is this place simply the litterbox of America?

I suppose your leavings make it a little closer.

 

[Griffin]

No news, but more details from Coro:

First, there is Brian Skinner who many of you already had your sights set on before he became candidate A1. This is a small detail but it was still impressive that Skinner showed up for his Thursday workout and meetings in Phoenix in a suit. Pair that up with his comments and it shows you how seriously he would like to be here. Skinner can get in line on a desire to play for Phoenix but he seems to be the right fit at this point because he gives the Suns something different than what is already on the roster and he's a proven commodity.

The amount of guarantee must be his sticking point because there is always that possibility that P.J. Brown is going to be ready to play in November or January. Retirement sounds really nice when you don't have to go to training camp. But when he is not on a team for the first time in his life come winter, that quality time with the family may not be enough for him.

Here is more of what Skinner told me Thursday about putting Phoenix atop his list because the Suns are a championship contender:

"I think every player's dream is to win a championship," he said. "If you're not playing for anything else but a championship, you don't need to play anymore. I've played with some good teams but it's always been from the outside looking in to see the Phoenixes, Miamis and San Antonios and the players they have and wonder what separates those teams from the mediocre teams and the teams on the lower rung of the ladder. This is an opportunity to be a guy on the inside looking out."

I take back that crack I made about going to Baylor being the only thing wrong with him. Apparently going there helped make him an intelligent, mature person. At least, that was my first impression and that would make him a real nice fit in the locker room. Skinner also talked like he understood what his role would be: run, defend and score off junk.

 

[azirish]

It's premature, but the one thing about Skinner is that he could part of the regular rotation. I'm not sure even PJ would. Where PJ is needed is the playoffs, but day to day the Suns run a lot.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's premature, but the one thing about Skinner is that he could part of the regular rotation. I'm not sure even PJ would. Where PJ is needed is the playoffs, but day to day the Suns run a lot.

Agree.

I cannot understand the Suns reluctance to give Skinner a guaranteed contract. A veteran minimum type contract is not going to kill them with the LT (even if PJ comes on board later). I'm not good at the math but say Skinner signs a 1 million dollar contract (add another million for being over the LT) and that's 2 million. Let's say they sign PJ later for about the same. That's only a 4 million dollar total for both. IMO, the Suns are making good money and can afford it for a year. Maybe even Marion opts out next year. Stranger things have happened.

 

[elindholm]

I'm not good at the math but say Skinner signs a 1 million dollar contract (add another million for being over the LT) and that's 2 million. Let's say they sign PJ later for about the same. That's only a 4 million dollar total for both.

Also, a portion of veteran minimum contracts are paid by the league. I don't know whether that portion is then exempt from luxury tax, but either way, it means that the total cost to the Suns is even less.

It's possible that the Suns would greatly prefer Brown to Skinner, so this last stall with Skinner is a warning to Brown that he has only a couple of days to make up his mind. I think there is no chance that the Suns would add both Skinner and Brown, barring a significant injury, even though finanically it would seem sensible.

 

[mribnik]

Skinner appears to be pretty athletic. I wouldn't mind this pickup at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXnlGQ_xT1Y

Edit: I'm guessing that was two years ago, but still.

 

[azirish]

It's possible that the Suns would greatly prefer Brown to Skinner, so this last stall with Skinner is a warning to Brown that he has only a couple of days to make up his mind. I think there is no chance that the Suns would add both Skinner and Brown, barring a significant injury, even though finanically it would seem sensible.

If the Suns sign Sknner, I don't think they'd sign PJ until mid season at the earliest.

 

[jbeecham]

Sign Skinner & Brown & dump Marks. I think they upped the veteran minimum to 1.2 million with about half of it paid by the league.

Edit: From Larry Coon's CBA page:

When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, ten-day or rest-of-season contract, the league actually reimburses the team for part of his salary - any amount above the minimum salary level for a two-year veteran. For example, in 2005-06 the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is $719,373, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $1,138,500, the league would reimburse the team $419,127. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive when filling out their last few roster spots.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sign Skinner & Brown & dump Marks.

Wouldn't the Suns be obligated for the their portion of Mark's salary anyway this season. If so, with a 15 player limit and him already signed, what's the benefit. Maybe I missing something.

 

[azirish]

Wouldn't the Suns be obligated for the their portion of Mark's salary anyway this season. If so, with a 15 player limit and him already signed, what's the benefit. Maybe I missing something.

I was unhappy with the signing of Marks. If they needed a practice player, why not just hire him in a FO job and not tie up a roster slot?

 

[jbeecham]

I must have missed Marks getting a guaranteed contract. I think it was a little premature of the Suns to sign him because he isn't a highly sought after free agent or anything. I doubt he'd even still be in the league if the Suns didn't sign him.

 

[Scot1]

Dear Eric:

I suppose your leavings make it a little closer.

Well, contrariwise, I respect most of your posts. This one is beneath you.

The only player at the top of the wish list was Brown, who hasn't signed anywhere. The other signings have been players in which the Suns had little or no interest.

I neither said nor meant the Suns' front-office wish list, which I am not privy to. I meant the wishes expressed on this board, for players like:
Jamaal Magliore-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-93131.html

Adonal Foyle-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=95964

Chris Mimh: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-92933.html

Alexander Johnson-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96044

James Posey-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96120

Josh Powell-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-95098.html

Melvin Ely, too—I got tired of documenting.

I wouldn't say that all of them are better for us than KT or Brown or even Skinner, or even practical in dollar terms--just that they were opportunities who were wished for by more than one poster each on this board, didn't apparently give us a second (or first) look.

Quote:
Kirilenko would rather go play in Russia, for crying out loud.
There is zero evidence that the Suns have pursued Kirilenko since his recent outburst, and even if they have, they need Utah's cooperation, not the player's.

Once again, I'm just surprised that Kirilenko isn't saying to the press "I could go to Phoenix and play real European B-ball, earn a ring, then go home...."

I persist in believing the propaganda that many/most players would love to play in D'Antoni's system with Nash raising their PPG. If you think I'm the only one who thinks we're auditioning dregs, well, I can produce a few quotes by more august (older) posters I found while rooting in the archives.

 

[elindholm]

Well, contrariwise, I respect most of your posts. This one is beneath you.

You are right. I apologize for the cheap shot, and commend you for taking the high road.

I neither said nor meant the Suns' front-office wish list, which I am not privy to. I meant the wishes expressed on this board, for players like

Fair enough. Some of those were never in the Suns' price range, and others I think were overrated on this board from the beginning. I misunderstood your point.

Once again, I'm just surprised that Kirilenko isn't saying to the press "I could go to Phoenix and play real European B-ball, earn a ring, then go home...."

Well, he was told that the Jazz would fine him if he mouthed off anymore. It's pretty unusual for a player currently under contract to say, "I'd really rather play for Team X." It happens, but rarely, and it almost never works out well for the player.

If you think I'm the only one who thinks we're auditioning dregs, well, I can produce a few quotes by more august (older) posters I found while rooting in the archives.

No, I definitely agree, but I think the reasons are financial. Competent big men aren't the ones who line up to play for the minimum. Also, anyone who gets signed knows that he's going to be mainly warming the bench anyway -- unlike Hill, who was (apparently) promised a starting spot.

I guess the "litter box" thing set me off, but the tone of my response was inappropriate.

 

[azirish]

Jamaal Magliore-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-93131.html

The Nets signed him for $4 million. His stats were a bit better than Skinner's, but not by a huge amount. Magloire averaged 6.1 rpg compared to Skinner's 5.7 rpg in 1.7 fewer minutes per game. Magloire was once an all-star, but not lately.

As it is, the guy he replaced was paid even more, Mikki Moore got a one year $5.3 million deal. Moore had a decent year offensively at 9.8 ppg, but his rebounding in the regular season of 5.1 rpg in 26.4 minutes was only 0.19 per minute.

Adonal Foyle-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=95964

Foyle went from playing 23.7 minutes in 2005-06 down to 9.9 minutes in 2006-07 because he was not well suited to the Nelson running style game. He got a two year vet minimum deal on the slow break Magic team. Foyle has always been a pretty good shot blocker, but has no shooting range a reputation for bad hands.

Chris Mimh: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-92933.html

Mihm did not play last year due to injuries and played only 59 games the year before, but still got a two year deal for $5 million from the Lakers. The Suns did talk with him, but the Lakers clearly had the inside track.

Alexander Johnson-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96044

I liked him as project, but a guy who got only 12.8 minutes a game in 59 games for a team like Memphis does not immediately look like a rotation player.

James Posey-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96120

Posey got a two year deal starting at $3.5 million.

Josh Powell-- http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-95098.html

Powell has not played much with any of the teams he's been on. He had a good summer league, but lack of interest by the Warriors would make me think he's mostly a project.

Melvin Ely

I'm not sure exactly why he's been discounted, but the word has been that the Suns were totally uninterested.

A case can be made that the Suns were fixated on PJ to the point where they failed to at least consider other prospects. But we don't know that.

For example, we don't know if they were in contact with Skinner until the last couple of weeks. On possibility is that the Suns expressed mild interest in Skinner early and let his agent know they would consider him if PJ fell through. The fact that Skinner didn't persue other teams makes me think this scenerio is at least feasible.