slam on marion

scotsman13

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http://slamonline.com/magazine/features/Marion81/

Shawn Marion :: The One

By Michael Bradley

Right now, he’s just a number on the stat sheet. Make that a whole bunch of numbers. Points. Boards. Steals. Blocks. A dime or three. That’s Shawn Marion for you.

He’ll fill up that line. Problem is, he’s doing it out in Phoenix, where times are tough. It didn’t look that way back in November, when the Suns were all smiles (at least, when they weren’t glaring at you from the cover of SLAM 75), ready to build on scaring the Spurs half to death in the first round of the 2003 Western Conference Playoffs. Talk about your near misses. Phoenix was about the toughest opponent San Antonio faced in the spring of ’03, and Marion was a big reason for that.

But then came the injuries. The Trade. A coaching change. All of a sudden, the Suns were in full cap mode, trying to cut costs faster than a CPA with the reddest pen around. The future. The future… But Marion was hitting it hard in the here and now. Forty-plus minutes a night. Damn near 20 and 10. Second in the League in steals. Providing that crazy, now-you-see-him-now-you-don’t double-team from the wing. The Suns set in the Pacific by January, but Marion never quit—not that many people noticed. Once things shake out in the NBA, we tend to focus on the contenders and their stars. It’s assumed that everybody else goes on some five-month vacation, interrupted only by free-agent bidness or the odd public relations assignment.

Otherwise, they’re gone from the spotlight, no match for the shiny playoffs and their heroes. So it was with Marion. The Suns went away, and so did he, no matter how much he accomplished (19 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.1 spg, 1.3 bpg) during his fifth NBA season, and his first with a giant new contract. Didn’t exactly ease up after he cashed in, did he? He would be back, that was certain. But we’ll only see him in the highlights, unless the new Phoenix ownership makes good on its pledge to spend its available millions willingly on some much-needed backcourt help for Marion, man-eating power forward Amare Stoudemire and up-and-coming guard Joe Johnson. “We have to work through our options to see who we can add,” Marion says. Right. So we’ll see you in November.

And then his country came calling. That’s what happened in mid-May, while the other NBA superheroes were slugging it out. That’s when USA Basketball extended the invitation (and not just to Shawn—the additions of Amare and Stephon Marbury came at the same time, meaning that Suns cover we ran last winter was actually our Olympic preview. Who knew?). The message: Come to Greece. See the Parthenon. Try some baklava. Oh, yeah, the Olympics. Run for the red, white and blue. Who cares if Shaq and JKidd and pretty much everybody else was bowing out? We’re talking about the world’s biggest stage, where it all began, back when Homer and Socrates were working the ethical give-and-go and Euripides was filling seats with his one-acts.

Marion was all too happy to say yes. “It’s a great honor, a great accomplishment,” Marion says. “I’ve made great strides to get to this goal. I’m blessed. This isn’t just playing in an arena, where there are 15-20,000 people watching. Here, you have over 1 billion around the world looking on.”

And how. It’s a long way from his JuCo days at Vincennes University to balling in the shadow of the Acropolis, but Marion belongs with Team USA. (Please, no more “Dream Team” references; there was only one, and nothing since has compared, or ever will.) Ever since that All-Star turn in ’03, Marion has owned a spot among the upper echelon, for all the right reasons. Here’s a guy who plays defense. He has a midrange game—a midrange game! He doesn’t pout when the ball doesn’t come his way enough. They ought to name a trophy after him. Think he’ll fit into the Larry Brown formula?

Mr. Pound For Pound may try to pull a trade to get him to Detroit (or wherever LB is next fall) before the medal round.

“He’s so valuable because you can plug him next to a guy who needs the ball a lot, and they’ll work together well,” Phoenix coach Mike D’Antoni says. “He’s freakish in being able to get shots without many plays run for him.”

These days, that “guy” is Stoudemire, Phoenix’s main low-post threat. It used to be Stephon Marbury, who pretty much needed the ball all the time and is now monopolizing the rock in New York. Some day, it could even be Kobe Bryant, with his all-world talent in tow, who would be a prime target of the Suns’ free-agent affections if he truly wants a new home. Regardless, Marion will be just fine hanging on the wing, converting offensive rebounds, finishing on the break and scoring off the dribble as a deadly second or third option on set plays.

“I can be the go-to guy, too,” Marion says. “It depends on how the game is going. I just like to play with energy and be active.”

There were times, during the first round of the 2003 Western Conference Playoffs, when the Spurs had to think Shawn Marion was some kind of phantom. Or maybe he had a hyperspace button on his chest that allowed him to move instantly from place to place. He’s on the wing. Now in the post. Wing. Post. Post. Wing. “San Antonio was stunned,” D’Antoni says. “Their shooters thought they were open, but then they were covered. And since he got there in the middle of their shots, they couldn’t do anything about it.”

That kind of play is usually reserved for the “specialists.” You know the term; it’s a nice way of saying “guys who probably wouldn’t be in the League—hey there, Bruce Bowen—if they didn’t devote themselves entirely to the defensive end.” You expect that kind of stuff from them. But it’s pretty rare to find a top-shelf scorer bringing that kind of effort to the other end. Yeah, some of the great ones will lock up man-to-man. That’s an ego thing. But double-teaming? With enthusiasm? Come on. “It just comes from wanting to do it,” Marion says. “Being athletic helps, though.”

Marion is certainly athletic. When he soars toward the basket from the wing on the run-out, he recalls the great high-flyers of years gone by. Defenders simply don’t get in his way on those occasions, almost like they stayed clear of Dr. J and The Hawk back in the day. Once Marion makes that final decision to rise, there is little anyone can do about it, so why try to interfere? Marion is going to get there—that is, if he wants to. This is no either/or man, who shoots the three or heads all the way in.

Nope, Marion has something in-between, and that alone should be reason for celebration. Sometimes, a hard dribble follows that lethal first step or two, and then that odd-looking but deadly pull-up J. Forget it. “It’s murder,” Marion admits.

For more on Shawn Marion, look out for SLAM 81
 

slinslin

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Shawn Marion might try to pull a trade? I would be surprised if he had any intentions of leaving on his demand.
 

Griffin

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slinslin said:
Shawn Marion might try to pull a trade? I would be surprised if he had any intentions of leaving on his demand.

I think "Mr. Pound for Pound" referred to Larry Brown.
 

elindholm

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Why would the Pistons want Marion? Isn't Tayshaun Prince already destined to become the greatest small forward of all time?
 

elindholm

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I'll be damned, Marion was second in the league in steals. I figured that was sloppy editing. I would have guessed he was toward the bottom of the top ten.
 

SweetD

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Joe Mama

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elindholm said:
Why would the Pistons want Marion? Isn't Tayshaun Prince already destined to become the greatest small forward of all time?

Hey smartass, nobody said Tayshaun Prince was destined to become the greatest small forward of all time. We said that there was no reason for Detroit to want Shawn Marion with his contract when they already have a good small forward for about $9 million less per season. And I still contend that he has a better fit in their system because of his defensive skills.

Joe Mama
 

George O'Brien

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A few thoughts:

1. It is curious how his view of Marion's defense is so different than the one commonly presented here. I've suggested that the Suns scheme creates some of the problems we've seen and perhaps there is an overemphasis on steals, but I think he is able to play man defense pretty well if given the chance.

2. This issue of him getting points without plays being run for him is a really important one. It is hard to have a successful team where everybody wants to dominate the ball. This make a guy like Marion can be huge plus. Could Marion become a super scorer if the team needed that from him? I think it is possible if he regains his shooting touch, but I'm not sure that's what the team needs.

3. I think that playing with a pass first point guard will make a huge difference in Shawn's game. Using him as a cutter could get him a lot of points and the "alley oop" play will become a lot more common.
 

elindholm

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This issue of him getting points without plays being run for him is a really important one.

I disagree. Everyone on the Suns gets points without plays being run for him, because the Suns don't run plays.
 

George O'Brien

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elindholm said:
This issue of him getting points without plays being run for him is a really important one.

I disagree. Everyone on the Suns gets points without plays being run for him, because the Suns don't run plays.

Yes they do. The problem is that they are all "pick and roll" plays, rather than ones with cutters and screens.
 

ezye

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Troll Alert!!! Find Something Better To Do
 

Joe Mama

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AmareFan, what has happened to you?

We understand that you believe the Suns will trade for Magloire. Now move along and give us something else. You are nearing troll status.

Joe Mama
 

Michael

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Did you know Shawn is already ranked in the top 5 in the following all time Suns categories:

Rebounds

1st Alvin Adams 6937
2nd Larry Nance 3791
3rd Neal Walk 3637
4th Shawn Marion 3493
5th Charles Barkley 3232


Blocks

1st Larry Nance 939
2nd Mark West 894
3rd Alvin Adams 809
4th Andrew Lang 509
5th Shawn Marion 446


3 Pointers made

1st Dan Majerle 800
2nd David Wesley
3rd Rex Chapman
4th Shawn Marion 304
5th Jason Kidd


... and will enter the top 5 in steals as well within the next 10-20 games?

Steals

1st Alvin Adams 1289
2nd Walter Davis 1040
3rd Kevin Johnson 1022
4th Paul Westphal 753
5th Jeff Hornacek 692
Shawn Marion 671

He is furthermore the first player in franchise history to lead the team in rebounding for 4 straight seasons.

Pretty impressivie numbers for a five year veteran!
 

George O'Brien

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Assuming Shawn returns to his previous shooting percentages and becomes just a bit more agressive about taking the ball to the hoop, he has a good shot at being a 20-10 man. His man defense is still inconsistent, but may improve if the Suns stop trapping so much and let him play straight up more.

So why are so many people down on Shawn? Mostly it is because he is not an especially good man on man offensive player. He is not a guy who can routinely make his own shot or break down an opponent on command. There is a widespread belief that only such players deserve big contracts and guys who get their points in transition, off offensive rebounds, and with the help of his teammates don't deserve big money.

This is not a debate that will ever be resolved because it is simply an opinion.
 

NJYAJ09

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I definitly want marion on the team...


Magloire for Marion? No Way.
 

Joe Mama

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George O'Brien said:
Assuming Shawn returns to his previous shooting percentages and becomes just a bit more agressive about taking the ball to the hoop, he has a good shot at being a 20-10 man. His man defense is still inconsistent, but may improve if the Suns stop trapping so much and let him play straight up more.

Unless Amare Stoudemire gets injured again there is no chance Shawn Marion is going to be a 20-10 player for this Phoenix Suns team. Hopefully he will be shooting a higher percentage this season, but his points are almost certain to decrease with the acquisition of Steve Nash and possibly Richardson.

NJYAJ09 said:
I definitly want marion on the team...


Magloire for Marion? No Way.

I think Shawn Marion will play well this year. I would prefer that he does so with the Phoenix Suns. However if New Orleans would give up Magloire for him (no chance in hell they would) I would do it in a heartbeat. Quality centers with very reasonable contracts are like Platinum whereas good small forwards with maximum contracts are far less precious... like silver.

Joe Mama
 

George O'Brien

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Joe Mama said:
Unless Amare Stoudemire gets injured again there is no chance Shawn Marion is going to be a 20-10 player for this Phoenix Suns team. Hopefully he will be shooting a higher percentage this season, but his points are almost certain to decrease with the acquisition of Steve Nash and possibly Richardson.

I expect the Suns to average over 100 ppg this season. For Marion to get 20ppg, he will have to be willing to go hard to the basket and get to the line more, but I don't think that is unreasonable. The 10 rpg may be harder to do, but rebounds tend to increase when the tempo increases.

For example, the Suns last season averaged only 40.6 rpg yet the Mavericks averaged 45.3 rpg without a dominant board man.

However if New Orleans would give up Magloire for him (no chance in hell they would) I would do it in a heartbeat. Quality centers with very reasonable contracts are like Platinum whereas good small forwards with maximum contracts are far less precious... like silver.

Joe Mama

I agree. This rumor about getting Magloire is simply wishful thinking.
 

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