So What’s Wrong With Kyler Murray?

[Cheesebeef]

Its still a dip because his passing grade was about 90 when coming back. However, its never as good as it seems and its never as bad it seems. I really think its just tightening a few things up and trusting the offense (w/o Hopkins). We'll see.

Yeah... part of those stats are boosted by the horse-ish final 16 play drive that chewed up all the clock and got us only a FG, where Kyler padded his completion percentage by immediately taking 6 yard dump offs in the middle of the field against the Colts. Same thing in that Rams game where he had been awful until the clock chewing final drive when the game was basically over there also, stopping again with a FG.

Stat padding in games he’s been awful the first 50 minutes of the game is the only reason he’s even at 76 passer rating.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You are talking about a kid that has was 42-0 in high school, 3 state titles (in TEXAS), and Gatorade Player of the Year.
He went 24-5 in college, including 12-1 in only year as full time starter. Heisman trophy winner.
Only player in history (IIRC) to be drafted in 1st round of NFL and MLB Drafts.
Has already set several franchise records and one of the fastest to accomplish many many others.
Took the worst team in the NFL to 10 wins in the hardest division and the playoffs in year 3 with mediocre talent (based on other 10+ win teams).

You don't think he is taking his job seriously enough? Give up on the fancy psychology words you know and get with reality my friend.

Lol @ people continuing to bring up HIGH SCHOOL records as proof of Kyler’s greatness... and then accusing others of not living in reality.

 

[Stout]

So we can actually all agree that he's a damn good young QB with potential to become great, but has been playing poorly and definitely still has a lot of room to improve and develop, yes? I think, wading through the much, we can come to this consensus.

 

[Stout]

Lol @ people continuing to bring up HIGH SCHOOL records as proof of Kyler’s greatness... and then accusing others of not living in reality.

Seriously. High school and college have absolutely NOTHING to do with the NFL. High school gets you to college, and college gets you to the NFL. After that, the ONLY measure of success is what you do in the NFL. None of the rest matters. Winning in HS/College does not equate to success in the pros.

 

[TheCardFan]

Lol @ people continuing to bring up HIGH SCHOOL records as proof of Kyler’s greatness... and then accusing others of not living in reality.

Consistency - dude has proven himself at every level. Stop trying to tear him down.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Seriously. High school and college have absolutely NOTHING to do with the NFL. High school gets you to college, and college gets you to the NFL. After that, the ONLY measure of success is what you do in the NFL. None of the rest matters. Winning in HS/College does not equate to success in the pros.

The college one cracks me up too. He never won a championship ship, he had 5 losses as a starter at major programs and in the biggest game of his career, he did exactly what he has in every big game of his pro career... crap the bed in the first quarter and put his team behind where they had to play catch up the rest of the game.

 

[Stout]

Consistency - dude has proven himself at every level. Stop trying to tear him down.

No one's trying to tear him down. Consistent HS/college winners and champions fall flat EVERY YEAR at the NFL level. Most of them don't even stick on rosters for the long haul. Winning at lower levels guarantees NOTHING.

You mentioned on the KK thread that his college doesn't mean a darn thing. Well, which one is it? Can't have your cake and eat it too, bro.

 

[SoonerLou]

I’ve never thought PFF grades were a valid resource. That said, I’m pretty sure they’ve always rated Kyler highly.

I dont hold you to that cause you were never a fan of it. However, most here seemed to use it.

Not really. His first year he was in the 60s. And also his rushing carried him last year on their grading. They graded his passing as average. And had him as one of the worst outside of the pocket QBs as well as one of the worst intermediate passers in the league last year.

 

[TheCardFan]

Seriously. High school and college have absolutely NOTHING to do with the NFL.

Then why are people going back to when KK was a college coach at an uncompetitive school? No offense to Red Raider fans.

To your point, it has nothing to do with the NFL. KK has proven he can win at this level, improved every year, and made the playoffs with bottom level talent of any 10 win team. He has also beaten several playoff teams...THIS YEAR.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Consistency - dude has proven himself at every level. Stop trying to tear him down.

Consistency? If there was consistency wouldn’t we see him winning titles in college to go along with High School? Instead of 5 losses while only being a full time QB one season? I mean, if he was consistent like high school, would he have actually been a FULL TIME starter throughout college? He couldn’t even win the full time starting job throughout hus college career, much less win titles or the most important games of the season.

I’m not tearing the kid down. I’m pointing out the flaws in your argument. Stop taking criticism of Kyler so personally.

 

[Stout]

Then why are people going back to when KK was a college coach at an uncompetitive school? No offense to Red Raider fans.

To your point, it has nothing to do with the NFL. KK has proven he can win at this level, improved every year, and made the playoffs with bottom level talent of any 10 win team. He has also beaten several playoff teams...THIS YEAR.

Good, so college doesn't matter. High school especially doesn't matter. You're done touting those for KM, then?

KK has proven that he can get to .500 career and back into the playoffs. Your comment about "bottom level talent of..." is 100 percent subjective, not fact driven. Beating playoff teams in the regular season is pretty meaningless--happens all the time with teams all over the league.

Facts: He coached us to 10 wins, we are losing a lot late in the season, again, but are going to at least one playoff game.
Subjective: We'll probably be playing this 1st-round game on the road.
Opinion: We'll be 1 and done.

 

[BritCard]

There are really only 2 things that have gone wrong. Kyler isn't playing well and Kliff doesn't hold him to high enough standards to get the best out of him or fix the issue.

Everything else is a consequence of this in my opinion. The defense not performing well for example I think is largely routed in being in very different game situations than most of the season. What you have to do defensively is very different when down 2 scores to up 2 scores.

I think we're all just angry that we thought Kyler had matured but now we see he has a ways to go. He's still immature.

 

[TheCardFan]

No one's trying to tear him down. Consistent HS/college winners and champions fall flat EVERY YEAR at the NFL level. Most of them don't even stick on rosters for the long haul. Winning at lower levels guarantees NOTHING.

You mentioned on the KK thread that his college doesn't mean a darn thing. Well, which one is it? Can't have your cake and eat it too, bro.

I think most people are trying to tear him down actually. This post title alone but there are many more. This board has 10x...maybe 20x the negative posts when we lose vs when we win. People were still criticizing Kliff and Kyler when we were 7-0. It gets old man.

I agree with you on going both ways. I just posted the same thing about KK. KK has a suspect record at TT but he has proven he can win in the NFL.

Kyler has a stellar past and has proven to be an elite level talent in the NFL. Nobody thinks he is Aaron Rodgers at this point and he has a lot to learn/needs to get better but you would think he is Ryan Lindley or Drew Stanton with the level of vitriol he gets on this board. Matt Leinart, Josh Rosen, and Kevin Kolb probably got more love from this board. Remember when ASFN melted down over Warner vs Leinart? Why do people turn on their own like that? Jeez.

 

[SoonerLou]

Yeah... part of those stats are boosted by the horse-ish final 16 play drive that chewed up all the clock and got us only a FG, where Kyler padded his completion percentage by immediately taking 6 yard dump offs in the middle of the field against the Colts. Same thing in that Rams game where he had been awful until the clock chewing final drive when the game was basically over there also, stopping again with a FG.

Stat padding in games he’s been awful the first 50 minutes of the game is the only reason he’s even at 76 passer rating.

Lol. Perception fails you time and time again Cheese.

The Final drive (really 2nd drive cause of the onside kick) he only completed 1 meaningful pass and that was a DEEP pass to Kirk on 4th down.



Colts game he did a bunch of check downs. However, Im not sure PFF actually graded too him well for that. . Maybe. There wasnt any real big time throws. I thought those were his worst drives imo.

However, the Rams game was actually graded pretty well and honestly played well. He had a horrendous int and a horrendous miss on AJ Green with pressure. However, he moved the ball at will with no running game, Donald having an all time great game and probably tie the game up without the Hopkins drop. Thats the context you're missing. For me he's been "BAD" these last two games. However, apparently not as bad I thought according to them.

 

[TheCardFan]

KK has proven that he can get to .500 career and back into the playoffs.

If backing in means having a 7 game winning streak, 10 wins, and clinching with two games to go...ok. Your argument discounts the first part of the year that had to happen to be in that position. Nobody likes the last 3 games for sure.

Comment about "bottom level talent of..." is 100 percent subjective, not fact driven.

Give me your opinion on what 10 win team has less talent than us this year.

Beating playoff teams in the regular season is pretty meaningless--happens all the time with teams all over the league.

Beating playoff teams, winning at least 10 games, and making the playoffs? How many times have we done that since you have been a fan?
Not very many for me. I call that progress. Looking forward to even more.

 

[TheCardFan]

Kliff doesn't hold him to high enough standards to get the best out of him or fix the issue

Based on what?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You are talking about a kid that has was 42-0 in high school, 3 state titles (in TEXAS), and Gatorade Player of the Year.
He went 24-5 in college, including 12-1 in only year as full time starter. Heisman trophy winner.
Only player in history (IIRC) to be drafted in 1st round of NFL and MLB Drafts.
Has already set several franchise records and one of the fastest to accomplish many many others.
Took the worst team in the NFL to 10 wins in the hardest division and the playoffs in year 3 with mediocre talent (based on other 10+ win teams).

You don't think he is taking his job seriously enough? Give up on the fancy psychology words you know and get with reality my friend.

There’s a difference between hard work and smart work. Kyler might be doing the hard work - like all his offseason physical training but what’s coming question whether he’s doing the smart work. He has just recently stated that he isn’t a film junky and his reasoning therefore kinda smacks of misplaced youthful arrogance (I already see things before they happen - or some nonsense like that). Hopefully he matures out of that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So we can actually all agree that he's a damn good young QB with potential to become great, but has been playing poorly and definitely still has a lot of room to improve and develop, yes? I think, wading through the much, we can come to this consensus.

Totally agree. If he puts his mind to it and is open minded about changes (for instance playing under center).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I dont hold you to that cause you were never a fan of it. However, most here seemed to use it.

Not really. His first year he was in the 60s. And also his rushing carried him last year on their grading. They graded his passing as average. And had him as one of the worst outside of the pocket QBs as well as one of the worst intermediate passers in the league last year.

I don’t think it was most. I think most people here (a) don’t ever even check PFF; and (b) don’t have any idea what’s behind their “metrics” (a term I use very loosely).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Then why are people going back to when KK was a college coach at an uncompetitive school? No offense to Red Raider fans.

To your point, it has nothing to do with the NFL. KK has proven he can win at this level, improved every year, and made the playoffs with bottom level talent of any 10 win team. He has also beaten several playoff teams...THIS YEAR.

If you can’t understand the difference in coaching trends when you’re looking at leadership and playing when your physical abilities can elevate you much more at lower levels, I just don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lol. Perception fails you time and time again Cheese.

The Final drive (really 2nd drive cause of the onside kick) he only completed 1 meaningful pass and that was a DEEP pass to Kirk on 4th down.



Colts game he did a bunch of check downs. However, Im not sure PFF actually graded too him well for that. . Maybe. There wasnt any real big time throws. I thought those were his worst drives imo.

However, the Rams game was actually graded pretty well and honestly played well. He had a horrendous int and a horrendous miss on AJ Green with pressure. However, he moved the ball at will with no running game, Donald having an all time great game and probably tie the game up without the Hopkins drop. Thats the context you're missing. For me he's been "BAD" these last two games. However, apparently not as bad I thought according to them.

You out a lot of faith in PFF if you’re willing to take their word over your own eyes. I guess you’ve done a deep dive into their organization, people, assignments, and metrics to turn over your decision making to them. What about them swayed you to do so?

 

[TheCardFan]

If you can’t understand the difference in coaching trends when you’re looking at leadership and playing when your physical abilities can elevate you much more at lower levels, I just don’t know what to tell you.

Ah...you just waffled back to college again.

When someone disagrees, it doesn't mean they don't understand. People on this board understand a lot more than you give them credit for...maybe take a different line of rebuttal.

 

[BritCard]

Based on what?

Based on various reports from people in the know (including a fansided article today) and Kyler's own words in his recent NYT article

 

[GatorAZ]

Based on various reports from people in the know (including a fansided article today) and Kyler's own words in his recent NYT article

Setting aside the actual comments the fact he admitted it shows he just doesn’t care what people think. Now on one hand you want your QB to be an alpha like that but on the other it shows about the same level of situational awareness of throwing short on 3rd and goal. Credit to him for the honesty but that’s something you keep to yourself. I’m not a Kliff guy but it’s hard to coach if your QB isn’t an all-out grinder.

 

[Cards_Campos]

I think most people are trying to tear him down actually. This post title alone but there are many more. This board has 10x...maybe 20x the negative posts when we lose vs when we win. People were still criticizing Kliff and Kyler when we were 7-0. It gets old man.

I agree with you on going both ways. I just posted the same thing about KK. KK has a suspect record at TT but he has proven he can win in the NFL.

Kyler has a stellar past and has proven to be an elite level talent in the NFL. Nobody thinks he is Aaron Rodgers at this point and he has a lot to learn/needs to get better but you would think he is Ryan Lindley or Drew Stanton with the level of vitriol he gets on this board. Matt Leinart, Josh Rosen, and Kevin Kolb probably got more love from this board. Remember when ASFN melted down over Warner vs Leinart? Why do people turn on their own like that? Jeez.

Facts!!! But the ones that try to defend get up and leave and the majority of this forum stay because they think alike. Lol. It’s like a cult. This post is 100% truth!! And I’ll get rebuttles and wise cracks from the peanut gallery that seem to know how to run an NFL organization! That’s the funny part. People on here making fun of KK and KM and have as much ammunition on their resume as a dude calling himself a chef and he cooks at waffle
House.
The Cardinals are worlds ahead of what we were just 4 years ago and We wouldnt be 10-5 if DHop and JJ Watt and Edmonds and Hudson were all healthy. Everyone here forgets we were 10-1 and Palmer went down and it was toast. You are so right on the Warner and Lienart debates. People were 100% Lienart and that dude never started another game for another team ever!!! Warner took us to the Super Bowl and people still said let’s start Lienart lol. We have people posting and people liking let’s start Colt McCoy against Dallas. Most in this forum are more like SNL.