Some early metrics on the Suns

[Phrazbit]

http://www.thenbageek.com/teams/pho

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM

Not a lot here that should surprise. Gortat and Dragic both rate very well. Gortat by far our most important player in terms of on court/off court stats, largely because of our lack of front court depth.

Some really small sample sizes for the end of the bench guys skew their numbers, however Morris current rates as one of the worst players in basketball. Was nice to see him show a pulse at the end of last game, his only slightly positive appearance all year. His rating are stunningly bad though, especially given the large amount of minutes he has received.

Michael Beasley is continuing his career trend of being a total disaster. Only 8 games in and his "win shares" point to him single handedly costing the Suns in the neighborhood of 8 victories over the course of the season. His true shooting numbers are among the worst in basketball.

But back on the good news. I liked the Dragic signing but I think we all were somewhat concerned that the numbers he put up as a starter last year in Houston were an aberration, but so far we have gotten a very good Dragic, especially in terms of shooting efficiency. And Gortat, while down his last game, is actually an improved player so far this year, especially defensively. The fears of his demise with no Nash seem should calm.

Despite an awful start to the year offensively Dudley has managed to have a more positive than negative impact.

Small sample size but so far Wes Johnson is who the Wolves thought he was. (-4.7 production!) He will be probably be playing in Singapore this time next year.

But again... I knew Morris was playing very very poorly, but these stats are horrific. Giving up a 25.7 PER to his opponent while putting up a 7.9 for himself. Horrific. Still has time to turn it around but right now he is producing at a level well below what you would expect from even a D-League player.

 

[Broseph]

Dang, I didn't realize Morris was playing that poorly. I had hopes for Wes Johnson, but he's produced nothing so far. And for our rookie PG, the guy can't even get on the court.

 

[carey]

Dang, I didn't realize Morris was playing that poorly. I had hopes for Wes Johnson, but he's produced nothing so far. And for our rookie PG, the guy can't even get on the court.

How could you not notice? He's shooting just as bad as Beasley, but at least he rebounds the ball and triest to defend while he's out there. He's had one good game out of 9. He's been freakin' awful.

I will say that all Phrazbit's bitching about Beasley has been right on the money. He's ****ing awful. Just awful. I honestly wouldn't give a **** if we bench him for the next two years.

 

[elindholm]

I will say that all Phrazbit's bitching about Beasley has been right on the money. He's ****ing awful. Just awful. I honestly wouldn't give a **** if we bench him for the next two years.

Unfortunately I'd have to agree so far, except for the bit about benching him, since I have him on a fantasy team. But also, I still maintain a little hope that he can turn things around. He does appear to be trying sometimes, so maybe it's too early to give up on him completely.

 

[Gaddabout]

Generally, just painful to look at it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree, Beasley is really hurting us but I'd stick with him anyway. What's it going to hurt other than maybe getting Gentry fired?

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Good stuff, not surprised that Gortat/Dragic score out well, they've both been good.

The Morris pick was/is/will continue to be a complete abomination. Despite the fact he was a late lottery pick, there were clearly better options available, and at this point, it's hard to even envision him as a bench player.

Beyond every other blaring red light about the current FO/ownership group, our last two lottery picks are especially depressing. Can you imagine if instead of Morris, we got Faried or Kawhi Leonard? Or really anyone other than Kendall Marshall?

I understand the need to rebuild, but rebuilding is much more fun when you can actually point to a couple of your young players as bridges to the future. From that aspect, our draft history of late has been putrid, and I have little faith it will improve anytime soon.

 

[carey]

I agree, Beasley is really hurting us but I'd stick with him anyway. What's it going to hurt other than maybe getting Gentry fired?

Steve

Gentry deserves a ******** medal for coaching this team.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gentry deserves a ******** medal for coaching this team.

I agree about the medal but the Suns FO will likely let him be the fall guy for all their failed draft and personnel moves. Blanks making personnel decisions scares me. IMO, if anyone should go, it should be him. Expecting Gentry to produce something out of mediocrity is not fair. I would not be surprised if the Suns let him go before the season is over. Then things will come full circle when he joins DA in LA.

 

[carey]

I think Blanks needs to get the axe. Maybe Babby too. Time to pony up some real cash and get a top flight architect in here. Maybe lure Donnie Walsh out of retirement. What do we have to show for the last two years? Scola? No brainer. Dragic? Reportedly Blanks wanted Felton and Sarver told them to sign Dragic. Morris? Awful. Marshall? Can't even get on the court. Gortat? No brainer to dump Hedo. Their big 1st hour of FA signing? Garbage. Even the four picks for Steve Nash and one pick for RoLo is whatever at this point. Sorry but they have done nothing 90% of this message board couldn't have done for much less.

 

[maljanAZfan]

Dang, I didn't realize Morris was playing that poorly. I had hopes for Wes Johnson, but he's produced nothing so far. And for our rookie PG, the guy can't even get on the court.

It's certainly been disappointing, but I assume Alvin Gentry will give Marshall some minutes once this team falls out of the playoff picture.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Blanks needs to get the axe. Maybe Babby too. Time to pony up some real cash and get a top flight architect in here. Maybe lure Donnie Walsh out of retirement. What do we have to show for the last two years? Scola? No brainer. Dragic? Reportedly Blanks wanted Felton and Sarver told them to sign Dragic. Morris? Awful. Marshall? Can't even get on the court. Gortat? No brainer to dump Hedo. Their big 1st hour of FA signing? Garbage. Even the four picks for Steve Nash and one pick for RoLo is whatever at this point. Sorry but they have done nothing 90% of this message board couldn't have done for much less.

not only that... but they've built a team that will likely guarantee them to be right back in the position to draft another Morris/Marshall. A 35-40 win team... that's neither young, nor old, with no future and no roadmap.

and for criminey's sake... this could have been EVEN WORSE had NO not saved our asses by resigning Eric Gordon's incredibly overpaid and often injured ass.

 

[Phrazbit]

not only that... but they've built a team that will likely guarantee them to be right back in the position to draft another Morris/Marshall. A 35-40 win team... that's neither young, nor old, with no future and no roadmap.

and for criminey's sake... this could have been EVEN WORSE had NO not saved our asses by resigning Eric Gordon's incredibly overpaid and often injured ass.

I think their goal was to build a 40 win team but I think they've failed. This has been a very easy schedule so far and we're 4-5 and could easily be 2-7 if not for some heroics by the bench.

I still think we have one of the worst 5-6 records in the league at the end of the year. Maybe worse if they do the right thing and become sellers at the deadline.

However, I dont trust the Babby/Banks brain trust this coming offseason. The Beasley signing was a move that no intelligent front office would have remotely considered, and New Orleans matching our stupid offer for Gordon is the only reason we are not already doomed for another 5 years.

Sadly its going to be Gentry who takes the fall this year and not the boneheads who handed him one of the worst rosters in the league.

 

[95pro]

the beasley signing was a gamble, doesnt look like it'll pay off. 3yrs for 6mill.
wish there was a way to see his game by game stats plotted nice and neat to see if there's any indication of upside. lol

 

[SunsTzu]

However, I dont trust the Babby/Banks brain trust this coming offseason. The Beasley signing was a move that no intelligent front office would have remotely considered, and New Orleans matching our stupid offer for Gordon is the only reason we are not already doomed for another 5 years.

Despite Beasley's poor play his signing has no real impact on the rebuilding process and was a low risk high reward signing a team that's in transition could take a gamble on. Signing Gordon would have been terrible though.

My biggest worry for the current front office would be signing the likes of Smith, Jefferson, Milsap, Ellis or god forbid Evans to big money next offseason. Luckily I think in addition to Gentry being in the last year of his deal, so are Babby and Blanks. It's my perception that Blanks is the one in charge of talent evaluation so he's the one I'd most like to see replaced.

 

[AzKarl]

I think their goal was to build a 40 win team but I think they've failed. This has been a very easy schedule so far and we're 4-5 and could easily be 2-7 if not for some heroics by the bench.

I still think we have one of the worst 5-6 records in the league at the end of the year. Maybe worse if they do the right thing and become sellers at the deadline.

However, I dont trust the Babby/Banks brain trust this coming offseason. The Beasley signing was a move that no intelligent front office would have remotely considered, and New Orleans matching our stupid offer for Gordon is the only reason we are not already doomed for another 5 years.

Sadly its going to be Gentry who takes the fall this year and not the boneheads who handed him one of the worst rosters in the league.

Using Babby, Blanks and Brain in the same sentence is problematic. To say they don't have a clue about building a winning basketball team would be diplomatic. Phoenix Suns games are becoming distinguishable by the empty seats disguised as fans. God Bless Jerry Colangelo.

 

[carey]

the beasley signing was a gamble, doesnt look like it'll pay off. 3yrs for 6mill.
wish there was a way to see his game by game stats plotted nice and neat to see if there's any indication of upside. lol

I think that third year is only partially guaranteed, and if so there's no way he's here after the last game of next season.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think that third year is only partially guaranteed, and if so there's no way he's here after the last game of next season.

Please tell me it is true. I can't find a link that says the third year is only partially guaranteed.

 

[SunsTzu]

Please tell me it is true. I can't find a link that says the third year is only partially guaranteed.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/suns.jsp

The most accurate salary site I know of, though not 100%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/beaslmi01.html

BBR started tracking salary information at the bottom of the player profile. They're reliable with everything else so I'd trust them.

I'm interested to know how much is guaranteed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure what some of you guys expected. Yes, we are a mediocre team with a questionable future. But, that is the result of horrible decisions made over an extended period. I think Babby has done a reasonable credible job and perhaps equally important, he helps offset some of the negative image problems we have with Sarver.

My biggest concerns right now have to do with player evaluation and the fact they tried to sign Gordon. I'd feel a lot better about our future if our last two picks weren't Morris and Marshall and I worry that we will see another off-season decision similar to the Gordon offer. I agree with SunTzu, if Blanks is the one who drove us to make that offer and if he's led the charge for our last two drafts, we've seen more than enough of that guy.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/suns.jsp

The most accurate salary site I know of, though not 100%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/beaslmi01.html

BBR started tracking salary information at the bottom of the player profile. They're reliable with everything else so I'd trust them.

I'm interested to know how much is guaranteed.

Thanks.

I hope the Suns have at least a partial out in the third year. Don't get me wrong, I would like Beasley to meet expectations but I am not counting on it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'll give Babby the benefit of the doubt as he has acquired some assets for the Suns and gotten them out of some bad contracts. Previously in the thread I suggested Blanks should be the one to go as his player personnel moves scare me.

 

[Phrazbit]

Despite Beasley's poor play his signing has no real impact on the rebuilding process and was a low risk high reward signing a team that's in transition could take a gamble on. Signing Gordon would have been terrible though.

My biggest worry for the current front office would be signing the likes of Smith, Jefferson, Milsap, Ellis or god forbid Evans to big money next offseason. Luckily I think in addition to Gentry being in the last year of his deal, so are Babby and Blanks. It's my perception that Blanks is the one in charge of talent evaluation so he's the one I'd most like to see replaced.

I dont think you give high risk guys 3 year deals. 6 million is nothing to scoff at. Between him and Frye we basically have a max contract worth of dead money on our books during the next 2 offseasons, and thats if they dont try to find another "bargain" next summer.

Save your space for impact player signings, take chances on small contracts. You toss out multi-year deals to role players and you end up with half your cap blown on bench players.

We amnestied Childress and used the saving on an equally damaging contract and a more damaging player.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I dont think you give high risk guys 3 year deals. 6 million is nothing to scoff at. Between him and Frye we basically have a max contract worth of dead money on our books during the next 2 offseasons, and thats if they dont try to find another "bargain" next summer.

Save your space for impact player signings, take chances on small contracts. You toss out multi-year deals to role players and you end up with half your cap blown on bench players.

We amnestied Childress and used the saving on an equally damaging contract and a more damaging player.

Well, that was a small contract and the problem with taking a chance is right there in the word chance. It goes without saying (so of course, I'll say it), not all risks pay off. He wouldn't have been my first choice but even still, I don't think it was a horrible risk. He could still play up to his contract if not his draft slot.

Steve

 

[SunsTzu]

I dont think you give high risk guys 3 year deals. 6 million is nothing to scoff at. Between him and Frye we basically have a max contract worth of dead money on our books during the next 2 offseasons, and thats if they dont try to find another "bargain" next summer.

Save your space for impact player signings, take chances on small contracts. You toss out multi-year deals to role players and you end up with half your cap blown on bench players.

We amnestied Childress and used the saving on an equally damaging contract and a more damaging player.

Suns could have max space available this upcoming offseason even with them on the books if there were any max players available, which there are not(unless you're delusional and think the Suns are getting Howard or Paul). The following year Beasley's contract is only partially guaranteed which means they can waive him and use the stretch provision if needed for very minimal impact(I've never seen a buyout for more than 1/2 the value so with the stretch provision it'd be 1.6mil towards the cap). The Suns could potentially have enough for 3 max contracts in 2014 if they choose even if Frye returns and stays on the cap.

I didn't agree with the signing but your outrage has been disproportionate to it's impact. My concern is what moves the Suns will make in the next 2 years, because despite recent moves they are in a good position right now.