Some Thoughts from Watching the Coaches' Tape

[kerouac9]

I got a new computer, and I'm having a problem figuring out how to do screen grabs. Apologies.

Here's a couple things I noticed from watching the All-22 of the offense from the Denver game:

- Our run game is really, really limited because our guards are so bad. Last year, we were running some really pretty Power and Trap plays, in part because Daryn College was mobile enough to move around the line. Apparently Ted Larsen and Jonathan Cooper aren't as good as Daryn College. The only--and I mean only--running plays we ran were inside zone plays. Sometimes they worked but more often they didn't. Ellington doesn't look as quick through the hole as he did last year. Even with the foot injury, he's still quick, just not quick enough.

- Jared Veldheer really struggled with DeMarcus Ware.

- I don't think the sack that put Stanton out of the game was entirely the fault of a mental error or something by Bobbie Massie. In the play, Ellington was playing to Stanton's left, and the Broncos had three defenders close to the line of scrimmage, but well to Massie's outside shoulder--like, wider than the Wide-9 formation that the Titans and Eagles used for a short time. It would have been physically impossible for Massie to get out of his dropstep and intercept Von Miller at full speed there.

- Logan Thomas looked--if anything--worse on the Coaches' film than he did watching it on DVR on Sunday night. He only looks at one receiver. On the first snap he had, the Cards were running a very simple four verticals concept off play action. All Thomas needed to do was run play action and throw the ball as deep as possible in the direction of our of our big guys or fast guys. Thomas instead turns his back completely to the defense and continues to back up when he should be stepping forward in the pocket.

- On the Ellington TD pass, there were two defenders in the area and Thomas had his eyes on Ellington the entire time. 8 times out of 10 that ball gets intercepted. This is a pass that was not praised in the film room Monday morning.

 

[BigRedRage]

On the Ellington TD pass, there were two defenders in the area and Thomas had his eyes on Ellington the entire time. 8 times out of 10 that ball gets intercepted. This is a pass that was not praised in the film room Monday morning.

yeah, very accurate but terrible throw.

You mean Larson and Fanaika cant do the blocking scheme? Cooper isnt out there.

 

[kerouac9]

yeah, very accurate but terrible throw.

You mean Larson and Fanaika cant do the blocking scheme? Cooper isnt out there.

Cooper can't beat out Larsen. Fanaika didn't do much pulling last year; that's not something the RG generally does in this scheme.

IMO, based on what the tape is telling me, Colledge > Larsen > Cooper.

 

[LittleDavis]

How do you get your hands on the coaches tape.

 

[Redneck Voodoo]

I'm not a film guy and I'm not the type of fan that has the time (nor Knowledge) to break down every play, but it looks like Massie is just pawing effeminately at Miller as he storms around him. I'm rooting hard for him but... Outside of that and another play, I thought he had a fairly solid game.

As far as Thomas' throw to Ellington, it almost looks like the defenders are shocked that he threw it there in the first place. It's like it worked because of the element of surprise. LOL!

 

[Darkside]

Cooper can't beat out Larsen. Fanaika didn't do much pulling last year; that's not something the RG generally does in this scheme.

IMO, based on what the tape is telling me, Colledge > Larsen > Cooper.

I haven't had a chance to re-watch it myself but I trust your judgement on it and that is depressing as hell.

 

[Darkside]

How do you get your hands on the coaches tape.

I may be mistaken, but I think he's using NFL game rewind all 22. Duckjake had it last year as well I believe.

K9 had some brilliant screenshots last year. More of that please.

 

[BigRedRage]

How do you get your hands on the coaches tape.

game rewind lets you rewatch games normal, fast or in all 22 footage.

 

[kerouac9]

Drew Stanton's Impossible Position

Here's the sack that got Drew Stanton injured. It's hard to say what Bobbie Massie did wrong here.

The Cards are in 11 personnel with Floyd and Fitz on the top of your screen bunched with John Carlson at the end of the line. John Brown is the WR at the bottom of the screen and the intended target for the play.

The Cards run a "pick" play with a "levels" concept. Essentially, Brown crosses the formation and rubs his man off on Fitzgerald. Floyd runs a deep post to clear out a corner and a safety. Carlson is going to run an in route to try and pull a linebacker or safety out of the action of the play.

The problem is that the Broncos have 4 players to cover 3 guys. One of them is the rusher. You can see how far out Von Miller is aligned--well off the outside shoulder of Carlson.

After the snap, as you can see in Picture 2, Massie, who knows he doesn't have any help, is dropping back and in as quickly as he can. At the same time, Ellington is watching the action on that side of the play, and decides that he's going to go out on a route to the opposite side of the field.

In slide 3, you see that Massie actually does get his hands on Miller, but this is the mismatch that the Broncos were hoping for. Miller has a two-way go, and Massie doesn't have anywhere to move Miller. He just has to hope that Stanton gets rid of the ball as quickly as possible. Miller's coming at him at full speed, and Massie manages to "catch" him, but his momentum is backward and to the outside.

 

[gmabel830]

Did Stanton hold onto the ball too long (could he have gotten the pass to Brown, who was running a short route).. or could Stanton have moved up in the pocket since Miller was coming in so wide to the side with no help (looks like a pretty big hole between 97 and Miller)?

 

[Russ Smith]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

 

[JC_AZ]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

 

[cardncubfan]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

 

[Darkside]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

Lol!

 

[Capital Card]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

Outstanding. 5/5.


Go Cards!!!

 

[MrYeahBut]

Since the defense was lined up overloaded to the Card's left side, maybe Stanton didnt thint it was necessary to move Ellington to the right side pre-snap to give Massive help.

 

[TRW]

Did Stanton hold onto the ball too long (could he have gotten the pass to Brown, who was running a short route).. or could Stanton have moved up in the pocket since Miller was coming in so wide to the side with no help (looks like a pretty big hole between 97 and Miller)?

I was thinking the same things.

 

[Redneck Voodoo]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

But you must call it a mis-communication. Otherwise it's just a cheap shot.

 

[Darkside]

K9 you need to roll that further so we can see what Duke is doing. I still believe he was confused and just went in space and looked around. I'm positive he was meant to help on Miller against Massie. There's no way you can expect Massie to drop step that to pick up Miller. It's impossible.

 

[Catfish]

Good stuff K-9. Thanks for posting it. I am with Darkside. I believe Ellington was supposed to help on Miller.

 

[Catfish]

For what it's worth, those of you who have been mocking Logan Thomas' 81 yard TD pass to Ellington, might want to take a look at the disection of that play by three of the Cardinals involved in that play. So much for saying Thomas only looks at the target receiver, and that it was simply a lucky throw. Thomas says he looked straight down field, then to the flat to confuse the 'D'. He then put it where only Ellington could have caught it. The cover guy was shielded by Ellington on the throw and probably didn't even know it was coming. Ellington saw it thrown, but momentarily lost it in the sun. He readjusted as the ball came into his area to make the catch, and had nothing but daylight ahead of him. He knew he was going to score, and was surprised to see Mike Floyd take out a safety on the play. You can see this article on the Card's official site.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

LMAO!

 

[Garthshort]

K9, I posted this on an OL thread, forget the title, that because our running game is SO BAD, is that it's time to try Coop and Watford at OG. We have to hope that they can play better than they practice. I realize that our OL does a pretty good job in pass pro, but not in run blocking. Considering our QB situation, I would say that we are desperate. And desperate times call for desperate measures. Hence, my call for, "The changing of the guard".

 

[kerouac9]

Seems like the logical play was to have Carlson dive at Miller's knee and injure him.

I think that Carlson was supposed to chip on Miller to slow him down to let Massie get into position. I have a hard time believing that the design of the play was to give a blitzer completely free release for 5-8 yards.

K9 you need to roll that further so we can see what Duke is doing. I still believe he was confused and just went in space and looked around. I'm positive he was meant to help on Miller against Massie. There's no way you can expect Massie to drop step that to pick up Miller. It's impossible.

Ellington makes sure that there's no interior penetration and then releases into the left flat. He gets caught up in the trash and maybe held up to where Stanton if he'd gotten out clean could unload the ball. Just looking at the play, it's difficult to imagine that, from where he started out on the QB's left side, Ellington would've had a hope of getting all the way across the formation.

For what it's worth, those of you who have been mocking Logan Thomas' 81 yard TD pass to Ellington, might want to take a look at the disection of that play by three of the Cardinals involved in that play. So much for saying Thomas only looks at the target receiver, and that it was simply a lucky throw. Thomas says he looked straight down field, then to the flat to confuse the 'D'. He then put it where only Ellington could have caught it. The cover guy was shielded by Ellington on the throw and probably didn't even know it was coming. Ellington saw it thrown, but momentarily lost it in the sun. He readjusted as the ball came into his area to make the catch, and had nothing but daylight ahead of him. He knew he was going to score, and was surprised to see Mike Floyd take out a safety on the play. You can see this article on the Card's official site.

The eye in the sky doesn't lie. It was a lucky throw, if only evidenced by the fact that Thomas's seven other attempts all looked like utter garbage that gave his receiver absolutely no chance to either catch the ball or gain positive yardage. I'll see if I can make time to do a study of that play up to the release of the ball, but I can tell you from watching it multiple times already that Thomas--no matter what he says (words are wind)--stares down Ellington the entire time.

 

[kerouac9]

Logan Thomas's second play

The thing with evaluating Logan Thomas right now is that it's not really fair to judge him on how he's going through his progressions, audibles, etc., etc. He's just not far enough along in his development process to impose those on him.

It's also not fair to praise overmuch him for things like arm strength, speed, etc. Those are nice things to have, but those are things that he had during an underwhelming career with the Hokies. He had those walking through the door; there's nothing to develop there.

So let's examine Logan Thomas's mastery so far of the rudiments of the quarterback position. How is he seeing the field? How does he handle dropbacks? Is he delivering a catchable ball to his targets? How is his ball placement?

These things should improve as Thomas gets more attention from coaches during his time as the #1 QB and particularly through his first full offseason and preseason with the team. But Sunday's game provided a good baseline for how far Logan Thomas still has to go.

Thomas's first attempt as a professional quarterback came on a 2nd down with 9 yards to gain on the Arizona Cardinals' 21 yard line. The play call should be familiar for anyone who played Madden in the last decade. Out of 11 personnel, the Cards attempt to create a single-coverage opportunity deep down the field on the left side with both Michael Floyd and John Brown running vertical routes that bend to the outside and inside of the field, respectively. The intention is that the safety will have to choose which receiver to help out on, and provide a single-coverage opportunity for the quarterback.

At the same time, Fitzgerald is going to come from his bunch position on the right side of the line into a shallow cross to draw underneath coverage, and Ellington will help out in pass protection before releasing into the left flat (not illustrated here) following the play-action motion.

Frame 2 illustrates how astonishingly deep Thomas takes his drop. My red line is drawn across the 20, but there's actually and additional yard. Thomas takes a 10 yard drop off play action.

On the left side of the OL, DeMarcus Ware isn't fooled at all by the play action, but Veldheer is able to re-direct him deep into the backfield. This is about as good as you can do against a possible Hall of Fame-caliber rush linebacker.

You can see that Thomas has a ton of space in front of him to move up and by him some time. You can also see that he has the chance to throw John Brown open by just putting the ball in the middle of the field between the safety and the linebacker.

Unfortunately, Thomas doesn't see any of this. He freezes at the top of his drop and immediately gets destroyed by Ware.