Somers: Only 11 mil in cap space left!

[football karma]

Anybody think that we would have handled this diferent if we still had Idzik handling the contracts .. ??

No


Idzik was a mechanic -- Graves sets policy (i.e. giving bonuses as "roster" bonuses instead of "signing" bonuses)

 

[joeshmo]

There is one reason why we cant sign as many guys as other teams.

Structure of contracts.

It is really as simple as that. It isnt that we wont spend the money, we are ranked around 15th in the elague in player salaries in the league over the last 5 years. Its the structure of contracts.

Honestly what other team in the league would structure contracts as such that 2 Backups (Shipp and Milligan) and 1 Center who was a backup last year (Al Johnson) would take up over 10 Mill of cap space? That number should have been half that amount if we used a signing bonus instead of the roster bonus.

 

[joeshmo]

Let me put this contract structure into perspective.

Shipp (Backup), Milligan(special Teamer only), and Al Johnson (backup Center last year) are currently taking up 1/10 of our salary cap this season.

 

[BACH]

I'm Pissed!!!

 

[blindseyed]

There is one reason why we cant sign as many guys as other teams.

Structure of contracts.

It is really as simple as that. It isnt that we wont spend the money, we are ranked around 15th in the elague in player salaries in the league over the last 5 years. Its the structure of contracts.

Honestly what other team in the league would structure contracts as such that 2 Backups (Shipp and Milligan) and 1 Center who was a backup last year (Al Johnson) would take up over 10 Mill of cap space? That number should have been half that amount if we used a signing bonus instead of the roster bonus.

At least Graves got an extension. Wooohooo

 

[football karma]

I was generally okay going into free agency with the strategy of "we are going to add 7 or so players to improve the depth of the team".

But then to immediately structure contracts that make it nearly impossible to accomplish your stated strategy is stupid.

And before he says it -- I am not buying when Rod says "the price of free agents was much greater than we thought". Everyone knew going into free agency that there was far more money than players. Basic economics says that the price of players was going up.

What is going on over there?

 

[Duckjake]

Let me put this contract structure into perspective.

Shipp (Backup), Milligan(special Teamer only), and Al Johnson (backup Center last year) are currently taking up 1/10 of our salary cap this season.

What was that question being thrown around last month? Oh yeah:

Why would we want to pay an underachiever like Leonard Davis 1/10th of our salary cap this season? Answer: Because we can get several guys for that money. Well there they are. Basically they replaced LD with Al Johnson?

On the positive side I guess a center will be less likely to false start.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Honestly what other team in the league would structure contracts as such that 2 Backups (Shipp and Milligan) and 1 Center who was a backup last year (Al Johnson) would take up over 10 Mill of cap space? That number should have been half that amount if we used a signing bonus instead of the roster bonus.

Is there a specific reason why they do this? Other than the obvious one (front office incompetence)?

 

[Totally_Red]

Is there a specific reason why they do this? Other than the obvious one (front office incompetence)?

Supposedly it's so that if they cut a player later, the signing bonus doesn't all accelerate into that particular year.

No wonder they didn't franchise Davis. With the way they are going about things, they couldn't afford to. Bizarre!

 

[DieHardFromMO]

I am really disappointed after reading about this development. I feel like I have just been crapped on by the Cardinals management team.

 

[BACH]

Sommers is correct.

32 Mill on Feb 28th. Minus a Dockett bonus, and about 6 Mill worth of bonuses to Matt, Rolle, and Fitz, then 1.3 Mill to Leckey, then 435K to A. Smith, then the crappiest structured contracts I have every seen at a cost of 10 Mill for only 3 players (2 out of 3 being backups in Shipp and Milligan, with Al Johnson a new starting C). What does that leave us with slightly under 11 Mill.

Johnson's cap number is 4.4M. Shipp is 2.25M and 850k for Mulligan. That makes 7.5M

Shipp numbers
03/07/2007 09:36 AM
I just got the particulars on Marcel Shipp's three-year deal.

He received a $500,000 roster bonus, payable immediately. and he'll receive salaries of $1.75 million in each of the three seasons.

His cap figure for this year will be $2.25 million.


By the numbers
03/07/2007 09:15 AM
I finally tracked down the specifics on Hanik Milligan's three-year deal with the Cardinals.

He didn't get a signing bonus but he did get $100,000 roster bonus that's payable immediately. He'll make an additional $150,000 if he works out at the facility in the off-season and a salary of $600,000.

In 2008, his salary is $700,000 with a workout bonus of $100,000. In 2009, he'll make $850,000 in salary.

That's a pretty good deal for the Cardinals. Milligan is an excellent special teams player, although he didn't stand out in that role last year.

 

[joeshmo]

Is there a specific reason why they do this? Other than the obvious one (front office incompetence)?

No idea becuase we are the only team that runs this way.

 

[Totally_Red]

Johnson's cap number is 4.4M. Shipp is 2.25M and 850k for Mulligan. That makes 7.5M

I think he said Johnson's number is 7 million because they did a roster bonus instead of a signing bonus, meaning all of it counts this year.

 

[ajcardfan]

Johnson's cap number is 4.4M. Shipp is 2.25M and 850k for Mulligan. That makes 7.5M

That would've been true had he gotten a signing bonus. But, since they made it a roster bonus, his cap number IS 7 mil!

 

[Totally_Red]

No idea becuase we are the only team that runs this way.

So much for emulating the Patriots and Iggles.

 

[joeshmo]

Johnson's cap number is 4.4M. Shipp is 2.25M and 850k for Mulligan. That makes 7.5M

Read the first post and the Somers article. That article came after the blog and Somers corrected himself.

Center Al Johnson, who signed a four-year, $17.5 million deal earlier this week, received a $3.5 million roster bonus. Combine that with his $3.5 million salary and Johnson's cap figure is $7 million this year.

Somers orginally stated the bonus was a signing bonus when in fact it was a roster bonus and he corrected that in his latest article.

Signing bonus = spread out over life of contract max of 5 years.
Roster bonus = counted all in year given.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Read the first post and the Somers article. That article came after the blog and Somers corrected himself.



Somers orginally stated the bonus was a signing bonus when in fact it was a roster bonus and he corrected that in his latest article.

Signing bonus = spread out over life of contract max of 5 years.
Roster bonus = counted all in year given.

So just for fun, what is Davis's cap number this year? I want to see the difference between overpaying your best offensive lineman and overpaying a back up that will hopefully get coached up by Grimm.

 

[football karma]

Why would they do this?

The cynic in me says it because by structuring contracts this way -- the Cardinals can spend to the cap by signing fewer players. By changing one word in each of those contracts -- "signing" instead of "roster" -- they would have $3- $4 mm in additional cap space -- and that is one or even two additional players they could bring in.

Instead, the Cardinals can throw up their hands and say "Hey, we ran out of cap space".

Alternatively -- this strategy basically maximizes future cap space. Not a bad strategy, but it leaves me with two questions: 1. What are they saving it for?; and 2. Rod says this team is close, but saving cap space for later suggests you arent -- which is it?

 

[john h]

I finally got over being pissed off yesterday. Now I am pissed off again.

It looks like we are going to be 2 free agents and done becauase we have no clue how to structure a contract like the rest of the NFL. We are the only team in the league that can have Shipp, Milligan, and Al Johnson take up 10 Mill of cap space in one season. This is so disheartening.

I thought I read some quotes from management we would be very active in the FA market though not for big names. I do not call signing two of your own and one FA "Very Active". Just tell us the truth and we can live with it. If we all knew how this would play out we would still be pissed but not going insane. Keep the darn troops informed! This is how our politicans get in trouble with the voters. Telling lies or half truths. Everday I look in the paper and see all these signings of FA's and wonder how did we get into a situation where we only have enough money to sign a few guys. Are other teams better at capology or what? Is Graves our capologist?

 

[DieHardFromMO]

I guess some of these people that have came in for a visit didn't sign with the Cardinals because of the "signing" bonus versus "roster" bonus concept.

Are the Cardinals not paying the roster bonus until they actually make the squad at the end of pre-season as opposed to getting the signing bonus now?

 

[joeshmo]

I guess some of these people that have came in for a visit didn't sign with the Cardinals because of the "signing" bonus versus "roster" bonus concept.

Are the Cardinals not paying the roster bonus until they actually make the squad at the end of pre-season as opposed to getting the signing bonus now?

That shouldnt be the case. Roster bonus or Signing bonus doesnt really matter as in both cases you get the same check. Its only a matter of how it is accounted for according to the cap.

3.5 Mill signing bonus or 3.5 Mill roster bonus. Either way Al Johnson gets a 3.5 Mill check in the bank.

The only way it could matter is if it is like your last statement suggest. If the Cards will put a restriction on the Roster bonus and they wont pay it until a a date after training camp starts, or some other date like that. But I dont think that applies in this case.

 

[Big T]

All I can say is I'm sure glad that most of you who are crying and whining so much are not part of the Cards organization.
It appears to me that some of you are so obsessed with your own takes that you actually fail to objectively consider anything other than your own already preconcieved notions.
For example:
Lets start with these two points:
1.- IMO this year's free agency pool really is pretty thin. I'd say the majority of the FA's signed so far have been overpaid. I'm glad to see the Cards haven't been one of them.

2.- And this is a point that most of you seem incognizant of:
This is a new coaching staff here. Now they may have somewhat of a decent idea of exactly what they have to work with, but until they start seeing what actually shakes out once we hit TC and preseason, there really are a lot of questions regarding how all the little pieces of the puzzle are actually going to work out.

It appears that, for the most part, that Whis and his staff are somewhat willing to go primarily with what they have, and after this year will have a lot better handle on what they really do and don't have.
As they have said: "they are primarily looking for depth at this point". I'm OK with that. It sure beats Dennis Greens modus operendi where he blew into town and started cutting people before he really even knew who they were and what they could or couldn't really do. To me an overlooked perfect example of that is Steve Bush.
I think he would look pretty good still in a Cardinal uniform, but I don't think Green and his goons ever really actually "took a good look" at him. I say he was the best all around TE on the team when he was cut. Very verstatile and the best blocker of the bunch. Unless and until Leonard Pope learns how to block, his "potential" is highly over rated IMO.

So many people have been whining to high heaven about the Cards/Graves, etc. not spending the available cap. Now that it appears that they indeed will, those self same whiners are now raking them over the coals because the ARE. None of you doing all the sabre rattling seemed to know about the "escalations" in contracts of Fitz, Matt, etc. (which also negates the phoney arguement that the team isn't creatively structuring contracts).

As I see it, the "team", be it Whis, Graves, Michael...whomever, have decided not to overpay the inflated figures that some teams have chosen to do.
Why spend money just to be spending it and because its in your pocket?
I'm not shook up with the way they structured JOhnson, Marcel and Milligan's contracts. If it turns out any of them are not all that productive next year, they can be cut and the team will be that much better off next year and the following because of it. I predicted 3-4 months ago that the scenario we are seeing play out now across the NFL could be happening. Teams are now, generally, learning how to manipulate the caps numbers better. The trend has been, and I think will continue to be, emphasis on retaining one's own proven players and fewer and fewer inflationary and outrageous FA signings.

Again some of you complain about the Cards lack of foresight....I see just the opposite. They evidently didn't get the primary players they might have liked, but the flip side of that is they also didn't have to overpay to do it either.
I want to see what the team does with this new coaching regime. Unlike Dennis Green and his clown troupe, I have faith in this group of coaches. I think they know what they are doing.
I honestly believe that no matter what this team WILL be legitimate playoff contenders this year.
Next year, the coaches will have an even better idea of any specific "tinkerings" that may need to occur for even more improvement.

Also, there indeed may still be some players cut. I can't believe for example that Robert Griffith will still be on this team come regular season this year, and there may well still be others too, once the staff starts seeing how the pieces start coming together come TC and beyond.
In addition I think this also keeps the door open to the possibility of trading down in the draft, for more picks, not necessarily for immediated production but for development and depth (as they have stated).

If Joe Thomas is there, then they might well take him, but other than that, I really do think they are positioned well for some dealing come draft time.

Also don't rule out any trades just yet either. That's probably the biggest "difference" I see right now in the overall league-wide scenario...we are seeing a big increase in number of trades, compared to prior days gone by, especially since the dawning of the "free agency period". I think that period is fast dwindling, and the Cards do indeed seem in tune with that.

 

[CaptTurbo]

II do not call signing two of your own and one FA "Very Active".

In a bad free agent market it is.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Anybody think that we would have handled this diferent if we still had Idzik handling the contracts .. ??

No, the article points out that this is nothing new for the Cards...If you look around the NFL, it's nothing new to a lot of teams.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

All I can say is I'm sure glad that most of you who are crying and whining so much are not part of the Cards organization.
It appears to me that some of you are so obsessed with your own takes that you actually fail to objectively consider anything other than your own already preconcieved notions.
For example:
Lets start with these two points:
1.- IMO this year's free agency pool really is pretty thin. I'd say the majority of the FA's signed so far have been overpaid. I'm glad to see the Cards haven't been one of them.

2.- And this is a point that most of you seem incognizant of:
This is a new coaching staff here. Now they may have somewhat of a decent idea of exactly what they have to work with, but until they start seeing what actually shakes out once we hit TC and preseason, there really are a lot of questions regarding how all the little pieces of the puzzle are actually going to work out.

It appears that, for the most part, that Whis and his staff are somewhat willing to go primarily with what they have, and after this year will have a lot better handle on what they really do and don't have.
As they have said: "they are primarily looking for depth at this point". I'm OK with that. It sure beats Dennis Greens modus operendi where he blew into town and started cutting people before he really even knew who they were and what they could or couldn't really do. To me an overlooked perfect example of that is Steve Bush.
I think he would look pretty good still in a Cardinal uniform, but I don't think Green and his goons ever really actually "took a good look" at him. I say he was the best all around TE on the team when he was cut. Very verstatile and the best blocker of the bunch. Unless and until Leonard Pope learns how to block, his "potential" is highly over rated IMO.

So many people have been whining to high heaven about the Cards/Graves, etc. not spending the available cap. Now that it appears that they indeed will, those self same whiners are now raking them over the coals because the ARE. None of you doing all the sabre rattling seemed to know about the "escalations" in contracts of Fitz, Matt, etc. (which also negates the phoney arguement that the team isn't creatively structuring contracts).

As I see it, the "team", be it Whis, Graves, Michael...whomever, have decided not to overpay the inflated figures that some teams have chosen to do.
Why spend money just to be spending it and because its in your pocket?
I'm not shook up with the way they structured JOhnson, Marcel and Milligan's contracts. If it turns out any of them are not all that productive next year, they can be cut and the team will be that much better off next year and the following because of it. I predicted 3-4 months ago that the scenario we are seeing play out now across the NFL could be happening. Teams are now, generally, learning how to manipulate the caps numbers better. The trend has been, and I think will continue to be, emphasis on retaining one's own proven players and fewer and fewer inflationary and outrageous FA signings.

Again some of you complain about the Cards lack of foresight....I see just the opposite. They evidently didn't get the primary players they might have liked, but the flip side of that is they also didn't have to overpay to do it either.
I want to see what the team does with this new coaching regime. Unlike Dennis Green and his clown troupe, I have faith in this group of coaches. I think they know what they are doing.
I honestly believe that no matter what this team WILL be legitimate playoff contenders this year.
Next year, the coaches will have an even better idea of any specific "tinkerings" that may need to occur for even more improvement.

Also, there indeed may still be some players cut. I can't believe for example that Robert Griffith will still be on this team come regular season this year, and there may well still be others too, once the staff starts seeing how the pieces start coming together come TC and beyond.
In addition I think this also keeps the door open to the possibility of trading down in the draft, for more picks, not necessarily for immediated production but for development and depth (as they have stated).

If Joe Thomas is there, then they might well take him, but other than that, I really do think they are positioned well for some dealing come draft time.

Also don't rule out any trades just yet either. That's probably the biggest "difference" I see right now in the overall league-wide scenario...we are seeing a big increase in number of trades, compared to prior days gone by, especially since the dawning of the "free agency period". I think that period is fast dwindling, and the Cards do indeed seem in tune with that.

Now that, my friends is