Something to Contemplate

[Jetstream Green]

I will go one step further. I say any NFL offense that is relying on the offensive line to be at the quality that was expected 5 to 10 years ago is going to fail these days.


Less offensive linemen being taught techniques they will need in an "NFL style offense" throughout their amateur career, less practice time in the NFL, and less time for players to develop (salary cap demanding you start and roll over youth to compete) all comes to the fact that the offensive line cannot be relied upon like it was 5 to 10 years ago.


Oakland had a great offensive line last year.......what happened ? Nothing. Just didn't have the same effect it had last year. That is too fine a line to be dumping money, time, and draft picks on.

The Cowboys offensive line was touted to the hills and back....are they making the playoffs this year?


Maybe there is a reason Arians was let go by the Steelers since they said he was going to get Big Ben killed. Maybe there is a reason why Andrew Luck is on the sidelines this year. Maybe there is a reason why the Cardinals have had to use their 3rd string QB for an elongated amount of time, twice during Arians tenure.


I keep saying this league is going to go the way of college football, sooner rather than later. While I agree a "NFL style" offense, coupled with an NFL defense will beat any team running a college type offense, the problem is NFL teams cannot run NFL offenses anymore. If that makes any sense. LOL.

You are absolutely right and have said the same many times as well. Sure, a traditional offense with the proper personnel is the best offense for the speed of the game in the pros but those guys simply no longer exist in college in the quantity to make it work anymore. It's not that the kids do not have the ability, the ability is not taught and colleges are going for the quick fix to win but their job as Sabin once said is not to develop players for the NFL but win

 

[Shaggy]

I think any average QB can become an above average QB with a decent line in from of them.

 

[football karma]

Maybe there is a reason Arians was let go by the Steelers since they said he was going to get Big Ben killed. Maybe there is a reason why Andrew Luck is on the sidelines this year.

i dont know about this

Ben R got sacked alot before Arians was the OC, and after Arians was the OC. His MO is to hold the ball forever. Luck played one year for Arians ( and four more after he left) -- i dont think you can pin his injury on Arians.


i do agree with you that college spread + lack of padded practices have made developing good o-line play difficult.

 

[cardncubfan]

Um, NONE of your quotes say he was the best. Heck only one even comes close and it only says “one of the top tackle prospects”

Point is it wasn't a crappy pick by SK like some are saying. He took a top rated OT with the 24th pick.

 

[cardpa]

I think any average QB can become an above average QB with a decent line in from of them.

I think history proves your statement to be correct. There have been enough times where an average QB can have an above average to outstanding year with a good Oline in front of them. I will reference this to what I teach my soccer players, find space and use space to your advantage. When you receive the ball with space, it allows you time to make good decisions with the ball. The time and space allows you to get your head up and see what is developing in front of you without pressure. It also puts pressure on the other team because they have to account for more since you will have several options available to you and they can't always defend all of these options. It also allows you to determine what you want to do next once you deliver the ball to a teammate. It can also force the other team to make poor decisions.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Point is it wasn't a crappy pick by SK like some are saying. He took a top rated OT with the 24th pick.

no one said it was a crappy pick. You're moving the goal-posts because YOU said it was a "great" pick and the consensus "best player at his position".

What Keim did was take the 6TH OT in the first round. A guy who couldn't stay healthy in college... who can't stay healthy in the pros. It was a pick... not a great pick, not a terrible pick... just a pick who hasn't worked out as of yet. That's the nuts and bolts of it.

 

[football karma]

What Keim did was take the 6TH OT in the first round. A guy who couldn't stay healthy in college... who can't stay healthy in the pros. It was a pick... not a great pick, not a terrible pick... just a pick who hasn't worked out as of yet. That's the nuts and bolts of it.

in a truly fwiw: that pick could have been much worse --like the Giants. They took Ereck Flowers 9th overall.

That was a weird OL draft. Half those guys have already been moved to guard. And the sure fire guy i liked -- Cam Erving at C -- has not been good.

 

[pmacLean]

The ENTIRE O-Line should just be turfed. They would have more success starting 5 rookies than this no-talent bunch of sad-sacks. (yeah, they sometimes run block well, doesn't do that much good when you are the WORST pass blocking line in football).

Here are the sack counts for the LAST 4 GAMEs. Just 4 games (I am only listing those with 10 or more sacks).

QB.........................SACKED.TEAM...Current W-L
Gabbert.......................21..AZ.......6-8
Brissett......................14..COLTS.....3-11
Cutler (3), Moore (1).........14..MIAMI.....6-8
Cousins.......................13..WASH......6-8
Savage (2) Yates(2)...........13..TEXANS....4-10
Winston (2), Fitzpatrick (2)..12..TAMPA.....4-9
Keenum........................12..VIKINGS...11-3
Wilson........................11..SEASNOTS..8-6
Hundley (3), Rogers(1)........10..GB........7-7
Stafford......................10..LIONS.....8-6
Kizer.........................10..BROWNS....0-14
Garapollo(3), Beathard(1).....10..NINERS....4-10

Please don't start with the 'he holds it too long'. If you watch the Week 1 sacks video and time Carson Palmers 2 sacks, then go look at any of Gabberts, you will see Palmer was getting 1 full second longer before each sack, yet he was still getting sacked. The nicest thing this team can do for Palmer is keep him off the field because he would be dead within 2 quarters playing behind this bunch of has beens. (Was DJ Hump playing the first game ? Maybe they should keep him, I can't see keeping anyone else).

I still think the absolute worst play I ever saw was what got recorded as a Sack/Fumble on Gabbert, where Wetzel, let his guy run around the backside, then stands there, Gabbert twists out of Wetzel's man's grasp and starts moving to the right, where Wetzel is just standing like a moron and then Wetzel, for whatever reason, simply knocks the ball out of Gabbert's hands.

Strip sacked by your own lineman. How pathetic. Wetzel should have been told to shower, get the hell out of the stadium and find his own way home.

 

[oaken1]

The ENTIRE O-Line should just be turfed. They would have more success starting 5 rookies than this no-talent bunch of sad-sacks. (yeah, they sometimes run block well, doesn't do that much good when you are the WORST pass blocking line in football).

Here are the sack counts for the LAST 4 GAMEs. Just 4 games (I am only listing those with 10 or more sacks).

QB.........................SACKED.TEAM...Current W-L
Gabbert.......................21..AZ.......6-8
Brissett......................14..COLTS.....3-11
Cutler (3), Moore (1).........14..MIAMI.....6-8
Cousins.......................13..WASH......6-8
Savage (2) Yates(2)...........13..TEXANS....4-10
Winston (2), Fitzpatrick (2)..12..TAMPA.....4-9
Keenum........................12..VIKINGS...11-3
Wilson........................11..SEASNOTS..8-6
Hundley (3), Rogers(1)........10..GB........7-7
Stafford......................10..LIONS.....8-6
Kizer.........................10..BROWNS....0-14
Garapollo(3), Beathard(1).....10..NINERS....4-10

Please don't start with the 'he holds it too long'. If you watch the Week 1 sacks video and time Carson Palmers 2 sacks, then go look at any of Gabberts, you will see Palmer was getting 1 full second longer before each sack, yet he was still getting sacked. The nicest thing this team can do for Palmer is keep him off the field because he would be dead within 2 quarters playing behind this bunch of has beens. (Was DJ Hump playing the first game ? Maybe they should keep him, I can't see keeping anyone else).

I still think the absolute worst play I ever saw was what got recorded as a Sack/Fumble on Gabbert, where Wetzel, let his guy run around the backside, then stands there, Gabbert twists out of Wetzel's man's grasp and starts moving to the right, where Wetzel is just standing like a moron and then Wetzel, for whatever reason, simply knocks the ball out of Gabbert's hands.

Strip sacked by your own lineman. How pathetic. Wetzel should have been told to shower, get the hell out of the stadium and find his own way home.

dude...spit it out already.

 

[Solar7]

@pmacLean, you don't sack the entire O-Line when all but one of them are in most cases our 3rd backups. We have guys on this roster who are capable when healthy.

 

[pmacLean]

@pmacLean, you don't sack the entire O-Line when all but one of them are in most cases our 3rd backups. We have guys on this roster who are capable when healthy.

No. They aren't. Game 2 thru 4 - Palmer - 18 Sacks (actually notched wins against the mighty Colts and Niners (pre Garapollo)... Valdheer is done, Iupati is done, Shipley never was anything but done, Boehm was drafted to be a Center, he is not a Guard and probably never will be. Is he that bad at Center ? Or is the BA old boy in effect for Shipley the way it was for the punter whose name cannot be mentioned, Wetzel is just plain pathetic. Watford is a swiss army nobody and maybe, just maybe, DJ Hump is an actual NFL lineman

And yet, on many threads here, you hear, yup, that Gabbert sucks. Give Brady OUR 3rd string backups on the line and watch how well he does (NOT New England 3rd string backups, because they will be better and more talented than our starting line).

And I can sack the whole line anytime I want. I am a legend in my own mind.

Until we have a complete shiny new line (keeping Hump) with completely, shiny new coaches who knbow how to coach the line (unlike current personnel who appear to have gone to the Russ Grimm O-Line Coaching Academy)

 

[JeffGollin]

On-paper & at the time, it looked like SK had rebuilt our OL with Iupati, Veldheer, Watford, Humphries etc.

Then the wheels fell off (mainly from injuries).

Before you string up Keim, BA Goodie etc. ask yourself:

What logical moves could they have made that would have resulted in our having a talented injury-free OL (or at least one with enough quality depth to absorb the usual amount of injuries)?

This year (& last) the difference between making or not making the playoffs boiled down to a few key plays in 2 or 3 games. Pretty thin margin of errors.

 

[Cheesebeef]

On-paper & at the time, it looked like SK had rebuilt our OL with Iupati, Veldheer, Watford, Humphries etc.

Then the wheels fell off (mainly from injuries).

Before you string up Keim, BA Goodie etc. ask yourself:

What logical moves could they have made that would have resulted in our having a talented injury-free OL (or at least one with enough quality depth to absorb the usual amount of injuries)?

This year (& last) the difference between making or not making the playoffs boiled down to a few key plays in 2 or 3 games. Pretty thin margin of errors.

Half the teams in the league can say that last part.

 

[WisconsinCard]

You should go back and read the draft profiles of Humphries. They are very similar. He plays mean, very talented, but has issues being a leaner and needs work on hand placement. Has a very high ceiling and, every one I have looked at, has him as a 1st round projection.

Keim can be blamed for many thing but picking DJ at 24 isn't one of them.

The man has some of the best footwork I've ever seen. If that kid can stay healthy he going to be a good one. If he didn't have so much talent there is no way the cards wouldn't have moved on already.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Point is it wasn't a crappy pick by SK like some are saying. He took a top rated OT with the 24th pick.

First of all, you’re cherry picking. Many pundits called him a project.

Also, what the tv talking heads and internet gurus say doesn’t make someone a good pick. Know what makes them a good pick? Producing. Humphries had a redshirt year (gimme a break), has looked mediocre for most of his career, has had a handful of average-to-good games, and can’t stay on the field. I dunno about you, but that doesn’t scream “great pick” to me. And before you start citing internet guys again let me ask you, who gets paid by actual nfl teams to make the pick? Not them. Keim is supposed to know BETTER than them what’s good or bad.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The man has some of the best footwork I've ever seen. If that kid can stay healthy he going to be a good one. If he didn't have so much talent there is no way the cards wouldn't have moved on already.

Like Troy niklas? Smh. The cards tend not to move along from poor high draft picks.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Like Troy niklas? Smh. The cards tend not to move along from poor high draft picks.

I see your TN with Michael Floyd and raise you Jonathan Cooper. Even higher picks.

 

[Harry]

Cooper was widely regarded as one of the best linemen in the draft. If you’ve watched football for a few years you know how a given player will respond to injury varies dramatically. Well his injury was a bad one. So severe in fact he simply never became the player he could have been. You can’t label him a bad choice. It will always be an unknown.

Humphries was not the top OT on any of the boards I saw. He was low round 1. The biggest knock for me was that he didn’t love the game. He was thought to be a good athlete for an OT. This lack of affection seemed to be reflected in the fact that he was slow coming back from injury. His lack of passion seemed to extend to a lack of intensity when he was on the field. Being based in FL I have good contacts in Gainesville going there several times a year. Humphries teammates didn’t see him as mean but did think he could be tough.

When the Cards took him and decided to red shirt him I criticized the pick. There were players on the board that could have helped that year. I think he has the makings of a decent tackle if he can stay on the field. The O-line shortage has made him a valuable asset. So maybe I was wrong.