Sorting Through This Mess

[Mitch]

Mitch is placed on IR, broke his ankles jumping off the BASK bandwagon. The controversial season ending IR designation instead of the part time IR has many posters calling for BASK's head.

When asked why the IR decision was made BA stated he needed to start forming the team chemistry and Mitch simply was no longer on the same page. His obsession over tiny speedy WR's just doesn't mesh with BA's vision of what is needed at the position.

To the contrary: I am not off the BASK bandwagon at all and I said so a few times in the post.

I do not know why this board has to be so blue and gray about the team---like it's the Civil War. the divisiveness of the board or your form of mockery Cardiac is not going to stop me from expressing my candid thoughts.

I am not the only one who thinks that speed wins in the NFL, particularly at the WR position. One of the main reasons why we lost 55-0 to the Seahawks last year was the fact that their CBs smothered our slow WRs. Same reason why we lost to the Rams twice last year. Tight coverage leads to sack and forced throws which has been the bane of this football team.

 

[Mitch]

That's my point. There is a ton of football knowledge on this board and I enjoy differing opinions. The slams, digs and negativity get old though. Opposite opinions when expressed with clarity and in the spirit of respectful debate are what make sites like this interesting. Just my opinion...

Thank you for saying this. I really appreciate it, moosehead. I know many others do as well.

I have learned to relish the ignore button---it works. I wish I didn't have to---but as someone here once said: "those who are going to hate are going to hate."

 

[AzStevenCal]

To the contrary: I am not off the BASK bandwagon at all and I said so a few times in the post.

I do not know why this board has to be so blue and gray about the team---like it's the Civil War. the divisiveness of the board or your form of mockery Cardiac is not going to stop me from expressing my candid thoughts.

I am not the only one who thinks that speed wins in the NFL, particularly at the WR position. One of the main reasons why we lost 55-0 to the Seahawks last year was the fact that their CBs smothered our slow WRs. Same reason why we lost to the Rams twice last year. Tight coverage leads to sack and forced throws which has been the bane of this football team.

I think Cardiac was trying to be playful rather than mocking. Anyway, it's not just speed we're lacking. Seattle didn't out-quick our receivers, they manhandled them early and by the time our guys were able to get separation our QB was on the ground. BTW, although I'm disappointed by our current situation I'm still behind Arians and this team. It was wishful thinking to expect these guys to go from horrible to contender overnight.

Steve

 

[Cardiac]

To the contrary: I am not off the BASK bandwagon at all and I said so a few times in the post.

I do not know why this board has to be so blue and gray about the team---like it's the Civil War. the divisiveness of the board or your form of mockery Cardiac is not going to stop me from expressing my candid thoughts.

I am not the only one who thinks that speed wins in the NFL, particularly at the WR position. One of the main reasons why we lost 55-0 to the Seahawks last year was the fact that their CBs smothered our slow WRs. Same reason why we lost to the Rams twice last year. Tight coverage leads to sack and forced throws which has been the bane of this football team.

Never want you to stop posting Mitch, yours are one if not the first I look for.

Sorry if my attempt at being clever and funny came across as smarmy.

I do think we lost 58 to nothing to the Seahawks because our QB's sucked more than we don't have any uber fast WR's. I do agree that we could use more speed at WR and it will be interesting to see if BASK grabs a WW cut but I'm not down on them because they cut Hawkins and what's his face that we got off the WW from the Lions.

The other piece to this is that none of us are at all the practices or truly know what each player's role is on any given play so we don't know if Hawkins makes several mental mistakes a game or not.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, I read somewhere, and I forget where, that Okafor and Abraham are our two best DE options, when we go 4-3 in pass rush situations. It will take some time before he's an every down OLB. But as you said he's a lock to be on our opening day roster, and I think he'll be active. Although playing on turf the team might think Alexander will provide a speed pass rush. If that's the case Okafor won't be active. JMO.

 

[Cardiac]

I think Cardiac was trying to be playful rather than mocking. Anyway, it's not just speed we're lacking. Seattle didn't out-quick our receivers, they manhandled them early and by the time our guys were able to get separation our QB was on the ground. BTW, although I'm disappointed by our current situation I'm still behind Arians and this team. It was wishful thinking to expect these guys to go from horrible to contender overnight.

Steve

Saw this after I posted and you are exactly correct. I get why Mitch thought otherwise because I have in the past taken some shots I and should have taken this into consideration when I posted.

 

[PJ1]

I certainly was wrong thus far about:

1. TE Quinn. I stil think he's a better blocker than any TE on the roster.
2. WRs Thomas & Hawkins---the two fastest WRs of the bunch from a coach who preaches speed. It proves that i do not know BA as well as I thought I did.

I was right about:

1. Gs Rachal & Kelemete. That wasn't too hard to figure out based on their PS play. The question was what kind of depth it left the team with beyond Watford. My answer was keeping C/G Gibson (not sure if he will make it either).
2. NT Carter---I said he would be gone if they found a replacement.
3. Ss Amaya & Taylor. Neither were good in coverage.
4. LB Walker---if reports are accurate. Didn't have a good PS.

I am more than a little confused right now, Juza, no doubt. Perhaps there will be greater clarity over the weekend.

I too was surprised one of Thomas and Hawkins weren't kept. I thought it would be one of them and then a decision between Taylor and Brown. Again left with too many of the same type of receiver.

What became of David Carter? He was getting killed out there by backups. Deserved to be cut.

Reggie Walker's value on special teams no longer needed. No shock there either.

Cards went for quantity over quality on D in free agency. Evident by what we saw in preseason. Won't be pretty in my opinion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cards went for quantity over quality on D in free agency. Evident by what we saw in preseason. Won't be pretty in my opinion.

yup...I fear this defense is going to be pretty atrocious. not much speed...pretty much anywhere save PP, Washington, maybe a little left in the tank for Abraham and i don't even know what type of scheme we're planning on running, but Bowles has never really had a unit or defense to really hang his hat on.

the offense will be okay...better then last year (which is pretty much saying nothing), but this defense I fear is about to take a MAJOR step backwards.

 

[JeffGollin]

1. I thought Quinn run blocked well.

2. Thought it would come down to one small guy (Hawkins) vs. another (Thomas) and we'd try to sneak Hawkins onto the PS, but we cut both (I was surprised. I also thought we'd keep 6 WR's).

1. I actually was surprised that Rachal blocked well enough vs. Denver to save his job. Kelemete seems to have turned out to be a guy they had high hopes for who didn't show enough directional improvement over 14-15 months.

2. Carter got pushed around a lot this summer and appeared to have balance problems on pass rush - i.e. lots of stumbling, lunging and whiffing in the Denver game.

3. Part of Amaya's and C Taylor's problem was a guy named Jefferson. Plus - a CB ((Bethel) can also play safety.

4. Twitter notwithstanding, I'll wait till the official announcement before declaring Walker DOA.

 

[cardncubfan]

1. I thought Quinn run blocked well.

2. Thought it would come down to one small guy (Hawkins) vs. another (Thomas) and we'd try to sneak Hawkins onto the PS, but we cut both (I was surprised. I also thought we'd keep 6 WR's).

1. I actually was surprised that Rachal blocked well enough vs. Denver to save his job. Kelemete seems to have turned out to be a guy they had high hopes for who didn't show enough directional improvement over 14-15 months.

2. Carter got pushed around a lot this summer and appeared to have balance problems on pass rush - i.e. lots of stumbling, lunging and whiffing in the Denver game.

3. Part of Amaya's and C Taylor's problem was a guy named Jefferson. Plus - a CB ((Bethel) can also play safety.

4. Twitter notwithstanding, I'll wait till the official announcement before declaring Walker DOA.

Chilo was cut.

 

[Mitch]

Never want you to stop posting Mitch, yours are one if not the first I look for.

Sorry if my attempt at being clever and funny came across as smarmy.

I do think we lost 58 to nothing to the Seahawks because our QB's sucked more than we don't have any uber fast WR's. I do agree that we could use more speed at WR and it will be interesting to see if BASK grabs a WW cut but I'm not down on them because they cut Hawkins and what's his face that we got off the WW from the Lions.

The other piece to this is that none of us are at all the practices or truly know what each player's role is on any given play so we don't know if Hawkins makes several mental mistakes a game or not.

Apology accepted and much appreciated, Cardiac.

I tried to state unambiguously that I am all in on MB-BASK. So when you said I jumped off the bandwagon (the broken ankles and IR was clever) I felt you had missed the point of my post and then when you called me out for being "obsessed with tiny speed WRs" that's when I thought your tone had turned from satirical to mocking.

I promise you, I can laugh at myself---and if I ever do jump off the BASK bandwagon, I will do more than break both of my ankles!...that is if you don't break my fall!

 

[Cardiac]

Apology accepted and much appreciated, Cardiac.

I tried to state unambiguously that I am all in on MB-BASK. So when you said I jumped off the bandwagon (the broken ankles and IR was clever) I felt you had missed the point of my post and then when you called me out for being "obsessed with tiny speed WRs" that's when I thought your tone had turned from satirical to mocking.

I promise you, I can laugh at myself---and if I ever do jump off the BASK bandwagon, I will do more than break both of my ankles!...that is if you don't break my fall!

My expectations for this year are tempered. I expect a big learning curve on Defense. Now if we had a legit 3 down pass rusher it would help cover for some of the mistakes we are going to see in the secondary.

Losing Cooper took the wind out of my sails for the running game and of course that will have an impact on the passing game. Levi needs the pass rusher to respect/expect to defend the run at some point instead of just teeing off with a pass rush.

BA has basically said he knows what he has in Housler and didn't need to see him in the passing game in PS. I think that's why DC got a ton of playing time (Sperry and King being hurt as well) because he needs the experience.

BASK seems quietly happy with the TE group and I do think we will see a far different game plan utilizing this group during the regular season. If this is the case and they are right then D's will have to commit more assets to stopping the run which will allow the WR's to get deep often and without a dire need for a speed WR.

I expect Hawkins to land on the PS and another speed demon project to be added as well.

Hopefully Bowles is as smart as he his respected and has a bunch of wrinkles he hasn't shown yet. I'm sure some of his scheme has CC and or DD playing two gaps at times and hopefully that's more of what they did during the PS. I know CC can get pressure and believe DD isn't washed up.

If we can get pressures and hurries from the front 7 without over using the blitz then I expect the DB's to be good enough.

My main concern is the running game D. Dan Williams will need to play at the level he was drafted or the wheels very well could come off the wagon.

 

[Mitch]

My expectations for this year are tempered. I expect a big learning curve on Defense. Now if we had a legit 3 down pass rusher it would help cover for some of the mistakes we are going to see in the secondary.

Losing Cooper took the wind out of my sails for the running game and of course that will have an impact on the passing game. Levi needs the pass rusher to respect/expect to defend the run at some point instead of just teeing off with a pass rush.

BA has basically said he knows what he has in Housler and didn't need to see him in the passing game in PS. I think that's why DC got a ton of playing time (Sperry and King being hurt as well) because he needs the experience.

BASK seems quietly happy with the TE group and I do think we will see a far different game plan utilizing this group during the regular season. If this is the case and they are right then D's will have to commit more assets to stopping the run which will allow the WR's to get deep often and without a dire need for a speed WR.

I expect Hawkins to land on the PS and another speed demon project to be added as well.

Hopefully Bowles is as smart as he his respected and has a bunch of wrinkles he hasn't shown yet. I'm sure some of his scheme has CC and or DD playing two gaps at times and hopefully that's more of what they did during the PS. I know CC can get pressure and believe DD isn't washed up.

If we can get pressures and hurries from the front 7 without over using the blitz then I expect the DB's to be good enough.

My main concern is the running game D. Dan Williams will need to play at the level he was drafted or the wheels very well could come off the wagon.

Good assessments all around.

 

[Buckybird]

A total 180 from about 6 weeks ago

I knew this team was going to have major issues once BA fired Horton...what a brilliant move.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

As I say year after year, basing the regular season on pre-season play is pointless. We have no idea how the Cards will look/play come next Sunday.

 

[GuernseyCard]

My expectations for this year are tempered. I expect a big learning curve on Defense. Now if we had a legit 3 down pass rusher it would help cover for some of the mistakes we are going to see in the secondary.

Losing Cooper took the wind out of my sails for the running game and of course that will have an impact on the passing game. Levi needs the pass rusher to respect/expect to defend the run at some point instead of just teeing off with a pass rush.

BA has basically said he knows what he has in Housler and didn't need to see him in the passing game in PS. I think that's why DC got a ton of playing time (Sperry and King being hurt as well) because he needs the experience.

BASK seems quietly happy with the TE group and I do think we will see a far different game plan utilizing this group during the regular season. If this is the case and they are right then D's will have to commit more assets to stopping the run which will allow the WR's to get deep often and without a dire need for a speed WR.

I expect Hawkins to land on the PS and another speed demon project to be added as well.

Hopefully Bowles is as smart as he his respected and has a bunch of wrinkles he hasn't shown yet. I'm sure some of his scheme has CC and or DD playing two gaps at times and hopefully that's more of what they did during the PS. I know CC can get pressure and believe DD isn't washed up.

If we can get pressures and hurries from the front 7 without over using the blitz then I expect the DB's to be good enough.

My main concern is the running game D. Dan Williams will need to play at the level he was drafted or the wheels very well could come off the wagon.

We need another big body to sub for Dumpster and a pass catching Te.

Examples: Fione (carolina) or Brace (washington) and DJ Williams (GB) Moeaki(KC)

 

[GuernseyCard]

A total 180 from about 6 weeks ago

I knew this team was going to have major issues once BA fired Horton...what a brilliant move.

One head coach per team.

 

[kerouac9]

As I say year after year, basing the regular season on pre-season play is pointless. We have no idea how the Cards will look/play come next Sunday.

Basing the regular season scoring or production on preseason play is pointless. But basing the general structure of the offense on what is seen in the preseason is not.

As I've said on this thread and others, reps are too precious to "waste" either putting in plays you don't believe in during practice to use in games or repping bad plays in the preseason altogether.

I thought Whis was "hiding" a 2TE, play-action offense with Leinart and then Kolb. What we saw in the preseason was what we got in the regular season.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

yup...I fear this defense is going to be pretty atrocious. not much speed...pretty much anywhere save PP, Washington, maybe a little left in the tank for Abraham and i don't even know what type of scheme we're planning on running, but Bowles has never really had a unit or defense to really hang his hat on.

the offense will be okay...better then last year (which is pretty much saying nothing), but this defense I fear is about to take a MAJOR step backwards.

Our only hope is that we can continue to cause turnovers at a high rate. I just hope we don't give up too many big plays.

 

[Mitch]

A total 180 from about 6 weeks ago

I knew this team was going to have major issues once BA fired Horton...what a brilliant move.

I have not heard one fan on this board, myself included, rave about the hiring of Todd Bowles as DC.

BA wanted his own guy---got that. And BA&SK have been trying very hard to add as much talent as possible to the defensive side of the ball. They are very aware that a drop-off on defense this year will not sit well with the fans.

The reality is, however, if Bowles fails, BA loses valuable credibility (for decision making) as a head coach, especially in light of how well Ray Horton had the defense playing and how enamored we were as fans of the job Horton did.

Horton finally brought discipline to the defense---players understood and carried out their assignments.

This pre-season the defense has looked highly undisciplined, soft at the point of attack and error prone in the secondary (blown assignments and shoddy coverage technique).

Hopefully we will see an entirely different product come game 1.

 

[Cardiac]

Basing the regular season scoring or production on preseason play is pointless. But basing the general structure of the offense on what is seen in the preseason is not.

As I've said on this thread and others, reps are too precious to "waste" either putting in plays you don't believe in during practice to use in games or repping bad plays in the preseason altogether.

I thought Whis was "hiding" a 2TE, play-action offense with Leinart and then Kolb. What we saw in the preseason was what we got in the regular season.

BA stated they have 270 plays in the playbook. My hope/guess is that he focused more on those for WR's since that was one of the major battles on the roster. Will we see more plays that highlight the TE's in the passing game during the regular season? Are there specific plays designed to get Housler open that weren't run during PS?

If BA believes he has a strength would he need to use that during a PS game? If BA has a need to find a couple of WR's while seeing how his Oline holds up in pass protection would he focus more on those plays?

How much does a team need to work on a strength to keep it strong and how much time should they put into improving a weakness?

 

[Buckybird]

I have not heard one fan on this board, myself included, rave about the hiring of Todd Bowles as DC.

BA wanted his own guy---got that. And BA&SK have been trying very hard to add as much talent as possible to the defensive side of the ball. They are very aware that a drop-off on defense this year will not sit well with the fans.

The reality is, however, if Bowles fails, BA loses valuable credibility (for decision making) as a head coach, especially in light of how well Ray Horton had the defense playing and how enamored we were as fans of the job Horton did.

Horton finally brought discipline to the defense---players understood and carried out their assignments.

This pre-season the defense has looked highly undisciplined, soft at the point of attack and error prone in the secondary (blown assignments and shoddy coverage technique).

Hopefully we will see an entirely different product come game 1.

Mitch, I didn't mean Bowels I meant the positive spin overall on the team...but you know I respect your voice of reason & work here. Just a little teasing

Anyhow, you know I was pretty outspoken in firing Horton & even the Cards not hiring him as HC. I think this team can compete next year, IF Bowels proves to me he's better than I thought.

Funny, how many are not as worried about our offense as much as our defense after a total reversal last year. BA made his bed with Bowels & it may in the long run get him fired. The story begins in 8 days...stay tuned.

 

[kerouac9]

BA stated they have 270 plays in the playbook. My hope/guess is that he focused more on those for WR's since that was one of the major battles on the roster. Will we see more plays that highlight the TE's in the passing game during the regular season? Are there specific plays designed to get Housler open that weren't run during PS?

If BA believes he has a strength would he need to use that during a PS game? If BA has a need to find a couple of WR's while seeing how his Oline holds up in pass protection would he focus more on those plays?

How much does a team need to work on a strength to keep it strong and how much time should they put into improving a weakness?

I'd believe that if there had been reports of Housler looking awesome in training camp (similar to what we heard about Boldin his rookie year). But there have been no such reports, from either inside or outside the organization. And now Housler has a high ankle sprain.

 

[JeffGollin]

Chilo was cut.

I know.

I actually thought that his play vs. Denver might have saved him, but evidently not.

 

[Cardiac]

I'd believe that if there had been reports of Housler looking awesome in training camp (similar to what we heard about Boldin his rookie year). But there have been no such reports, from either inside or outside the organization. And now Housler has a high ankle sprain.

What I have heard is BA saying that Housler is doing very well with blocking and he knows Housler can catch and doesn't need to see that in PS games.

How much of that is coach speak would be my concern. BA also is on record as liking Sperry and he did fairly well against Denver. Since I wasn't at OTA's or TC I can only have faith in what BA is telling the media.

I would think that BA would have the team running plays designed for the TE's in the receiving game during TC so I understand your skepticism. Plus he cut your boy Dray so your view is clouded.