Sporting News rated Cardinals-

[bigredjane]

In their May24 issue on Page28 Sporting News gave the Cardinals a grade of A- in the off season moves and players signed. But then on the next page we are rated as one of the teams making the WORST moves, because we went with Josh McCown and we have the gifted trio of receivers-Anquan Boldin,Bryant Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald who are frightfully young and could have benefited from veteran Jeff Blake's experience. It gave me a scare, am I wrong to feel worried??

 

[40yearfan]

In their May24 issue on Page28 Sporting News gave the Cardinals a grade of A- in the off season moves and players signed. But then on the next page we are rated as one of the teams making the WORST moves, because we went with Josh McCown and we have the gifted trio of receivers-Anquan Boldin,Bryant Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald who are frightfully young and could have benefited from veteran Jeff Blake's experience. It gave me a scare, am I wrong to feel worried??

Yes. Put your trust in the Force, young lass. Look past the ignorance that comes from non-Cardinal fans and listen only to those of us who post on ASFN (A Strong Force Network). If you believe, they will follow your bidding.

 

[bigredjane]

Thanks 40 year fan-

Yes. Put your trust in the Force, young lass. Look past the ignorance that comes from non-Cardinal fans and listen only to those of us who post on ASFN (A Strong Force Network). If you believe, they will follow your bidding.

But I'm still worried!

 

[vikesfan]

But I'm still worried!

The media is full of crap don't pay them any mind. Even Peter King says BS and he is one of the most respected out there.

The fans in here know more then them usually (except when they parrot media BS instead of thinking for themselves).

In one media report our worst move is signing Macklin then later on in the same report he says Macklin was playing great at the end of last season. WTF?

How about that guy picking MIA and MIN for the SB.

The media is very unknowledgable, sensationalistic, and just plain make up stuff.

Seriously think for yourself don't believe anything they say. See if it makes sense. Don't let these guys worry you!

 

[azdad1978]

The media is full of crap don't pay them any mind.
In one media report our worst move is signing Macklin then later on in the same report he says Macklin was playing great at the end of last season. WTF?

The media is very unknowledgable, sensationalistic, and just plain make up stuff.

Until we start winning for consecutive years the media will rip us. You think just because we sign DG outside media outlets will forget that this team only once won a playoff game in 50 years. Btw where do you get your stories from? The media right? Macklin was benched the middle of the season and the only time he played good was in the playoffs. To call the media unknowledgable, sensationalistic and making stuff up, I think you're talking about star magazine or something. Put down the Green cool aid.

 

[Garthshort]

Kool Aid or Not

AzDad, while I agree with some of your comments the thought that the Cardinals should have stayed with Jeff Blake rather than Josh McCown is rediculous. I'm not sure if Josh is the answer but I KNOW that Jeff wasn't. As Skkorp has pointed out SOME press is good and SOME don't know s..... And of course that gives all the press a bad name.

 

[azdad1978]

AzDad, while I agree with some of your comments the thought that the Cardinals should have stayed with Jeff Blake rather than Josh McCown is rediculous. I'm not sure if Josh is the answer but I KNOW that Jeff wasn't. As Skkorp has pointed out SOME press is good and SOME don't know s..... And of course that gives all the press a bad name.

I for one think that Blake was not the answer for this team, and I was never a fan of Blake either.

 

[bigredjane]

I am not either-

I for one think that Blake was not the answer for this team, and I was never a fan of Blake either.

a fan of Blake or Shawn King. I just wish we had a wiz of a quarterback for a change, is that to much to ask for? I really hope that Josh proves me wrong, but theres this nagging feeling of dread.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

if the media was so knowledgeable about players and their abilities then they would be scouts. media just writes what the people want to hear. then at the end of the year they can say i told you the cardinals are not that great, or cover their tracks and say the cardinals overachieve and what a great story this is. from worst to first and that dennis green has turn this organzation around. the same ole hooprah that the media gave the panthers, rams and the patriots. so trust your own judgement and believe what you want. oh yeah, do what my signature says.

 

[azdad1978]

if the media was so knowledgeable about players and their abilities then they would be scouts. media just writes what the people want to hear. then at the end of the year they can say i told you the cardinals are not that great, or cover their tracks and say the cardinals overachieve and what a great story this is. from worst to first and that dennis green has turn this organzation around. the same ole hooprah that the media gave the panthers, rams and the patriots. so trust your own judgement and believe what you want. oh yeah, do what my signature says.

I agree with some of your comments and I do think DG is a good hire but we need to have a complete turn around like the Bucs did before we can say we have arrive. Graves and DG is pointing the team in the right direction but we are a still maybe 2 years away and 2 more years of good drafting and signing FA. It took the Panthers 2 years to build their team from the ground up. Same with the Pats and Rams. But thats JMHO.

 

[JeffGollin]

It gave me a scare, am I wrong to feel worried?

Yes.

Just because 2 media dudes in the Sporting News said anything (pro, con or conflicting) doesn't make it so.

Besides, are you going to let (with all due respect) guys like Kent Somers, Dan Pompeii and Paul Attner determine how you're going to feel each day?

Rely instead on what you read here amongst your friends, be observant and trust your own judgement. Then decide for yourself whether or not you should feel worried.

 

[vikesfan]

Yeah just go back and read what the media said about Boldin, they are far from all knowing.

 

[BigRedMO]

You are worried that the Cardinals have invested next to nothing at QB after investing a lot of money at WR? You are worried that the starting QB is unproven, never played in a NFL game that mattered, played college football at the level below the top level? You are worried that there is no viable back-up? You are worried that those professional sports writers who make their living analyzing the NFL say they are concerned about the QB position for the Cardinals? You have good reason to worry. I hope it works out and will be glad to eat my words. I still can not believe the moves my team makes. They made some bone headed moves in St. Louis but not near as many as they have made in Arizona. Is the heat getting to Bidwill? I love them but they piss me off.

The comments about thoughtful analysis are excellent. That independent critical thinking also means not to take and repeat the Bidwill/Green line as gospel.

Coming from a small school alone is not an absolute predictor of success or lack of. Afterall, Hart came from Southern Illinois as a free agent and Neil Lomax a second round pick came from Portland State. Think it is given someone from a major school has more experience.

 

[BigRedMO]

The reason professional sports anaylsts opinions should not be discounted is that they look at all NFL teams in an unemotional way. I am sure they have their favorite teams but they realize that they will jeopardize their career if they come across as a fan ruled by his/her emotion and biased towards a certain team(s).

 

[Sandan]

The reason professional sports anaylsts opinions should not be discounted is that they look at all NFL teams in an unemotional way. I am sure they have their favorite teams but they realize that they will jeopardize their career if they come across as a fan ruled by his/her emotion and biased towards a certain team(s).

There are two problems with this.

1. A real "professional sports anaylst" is a very, very rare breed
2. Very few national reporters follow the Cards or have any clue what is really going on down here. They just don't care because the feel their readers don't care.

The net result is most of what you rewad on ESPN or other national outletrs is really just based on what they have heard other reporters say. Then add in the fact that most of our media here in town feels that Cardinal bashing = better ratings.

The the net result is articles like this, these folks rarely come to Arizona to get first hand info. They discount the fact Denny Green is proven to be one of the best at selecting/developing QBs and he is happy with Josh.

We will get no regognition from the press until the team rams it down their collective throats (repeatedly)

 

[BigRedMO]

I admire the loyalty to the team at this web site. However, I think to say you should not be concerned about the QB position is to not be analyzing the facts as they stand. Say there was another team in the NFL that you cared nothing about that had as its starting QB a guy who played a few games that meant nothing? What would you say about that team's prospects for the next year at that position?

To say you are worried is not to say you know the team blundered by not getting a QB. You are saying that you are concerned about the risk. If you are not realistic about the Cardinals problems coming into this season then you are setting yourself up to be diappointed. When I was a child I thought every year the Cardinals were going to win the Super Bowl. Since then I have learned to be objective and analytical. To realisticly and objectively not be worried about the QB position for the Cardinals is to not be rational. It may work out fine. However, every objective, rational fan should be concerned by the facts.

 

[BigRedMO]

I love the Cardinals. I have been a fan since I was in grade school. The Cardinals organization is in the same place Tampa Bay and the Saints were in several years ago. They were bad organizations that lost all the time and built up that expectation in its players. They had some good players who played down to the level of their team mates. I see that in the Cardinals offensive line and particulalry with Leonard Davis. The number of sacks allowed last year and poor rushing numbers are a damning comment about the attitude and professionalism of that unit.

When the Cardinals some day in the future hopefully turn it around and become a winning organization it will be a complete surprise to every objective analytical person. As much as getting good talent matters it is even more important to change the organizational attitude. That change in attitude is not predictable. McGinnis came in as very positve and as a good motivator. He could not turn it around. Can Green turn it around? It is a completely unpredictable unknown. The only fans who will be saying I told you so when the Cardinals turn it around will be the people who every year predict that result. So they will be right but after being wrong for numerous years. If you are one of those kind of people you will probably be right some day.

Lastly, to blame the media because they think the Cardinals are bad is like shooting the messenger for delivering the message. They report what they see. Last in points scored and last in points allowed. Starting a QB with no real experience and with no viable alternative is extremely risky. The message they are delivering is the truth.

 

[vikesfan]

QUOTE: You are worried that the Cardinals have invested next to nothing at QB after investing a lot of money at WR?
RESPONSE: Investing money in positions does not matter. The money investment by position arguement is a phoney one. The money you need to invest is in GOOD players. The way a team wins in the NFL is by adding good players just like Minnesota did with Moss they had Reed and Carter they still drafted Moss.

QUOTE: You are worried that the starting QB is unproven, never played in a NFL game that mattered, played college football at the level below the top level?
RESPONSE: Look at Leaf he failed. You want the Cards to take another chance like that and wind up with a Leaf? Look at Bulger what had he ever done. Look at Warner what had he ever done. Look at one of the winningest QBs in the NFL Fiedler what had he ever done. The QBs who are number one draft picks and come in and are great are few and far between. Look at Couch. Lots of small school players did well in the pros. Look at Simms for example.


QUOTE:You are worried that there is no viable back-up?
RESPONSE: Shaun King is an extremely viable back up and took a team to an NFC final which they lost on a bad call.


QUOTE: You are worried that those professional sports writers who make their living analyzing the NFL say they are concerned about the QB position for the Cardinals?
RESPONSE: Read what they said about Boldin. Search the archives I posted what Sports Illustrated said about Boldin last year AFTER mini-camp. Even his performance in mini-camp did not change their mind on him. By the way some publications had said the Josh move was the right one - not that it matters.



QUOTE: You have good reason to worry. I hope it works out and will be glad to eat my words. I still can not believe the moves my team makes. They made some bone headed moves in St. Louis but not near as many as they have made in Arizona. Is the heat getting to Bidwill? I love them but they piss me off.

RESPONSE: Pick a new team. This team is making the right moves now and if you don't want to support them then why cheer for them? And you know what if Josh isn't able to do it they won't spend years on him like they did with Plummer. They will bring in a new QB. They will not waste seasons on a QB who can't win in the NFL!

QUOTE: The comments about thoughtful analysis are excellent. That independent critical thinking also means not to take and repeat the Bidwill/Green line as gospel.

RESPONSE: It's not Bidwill it's the Green line he was hired to do his thing here. If you don't like it come out against Green. Rip him and demand a new coach. Before one game let alone 1 season has been played!

QUOTE: Coming from a small school alone is not an absolute predictor of success or lack of. Afterall, Hart came from Southern Illinois as a free agent and Neil Lomax a second round pick came from Portland State. Think it is given someone from a major school has more experience.

RESPONSE: This contradicts your arguement!

 

[vikesfan]

QUOTE: I admire the loyalty to the team at this web site. However, I think to say you should not be concerned about the QB position is to not be analyzing the facts as they stand. Say there was another team in the NFL that you cared nothing about that had as its starting QB a guy who played a few games that meant nothing? What would you say about that team's prospects for the next year at that position?

RESPONSE: This was the position SEA was in with Hassleback. The position STL was in with both Warner and Bulger. This was the position MIN was with Culpepper. This was the position MIA was in with Fiedler. It happens all the time. This is Josh's prove it season not last year. If he started every game last year THEN we'd know if he could be an NFL starter.

QUOTE: To say you are worried is not to say you know the team blundered by not getting a QB.

RESPONSE: Who like the great Jeff Blake? They tried that route last year. Would you feel good if the Cards added yet another retread QB? The Cards DID get a QB when they draft the THIRD best QB in the NCAA in Josh several years ago in the THIRD round. Why did you think they did so the kid never gets to play in the NFL. Did they just waste that 3rd round pick? Get real they drafted the guy to be their QB and this is the year where (after seasoning) he will get to show his stuff!


QUOTE: You are saying that you are concerned about the risk. If you are not realistic about the Cardinals problems coming into this season then you are setting yourself up to be diappointed. When I was a child I thought every year the Cardinals were going to win the Super Bowl. Since then I have learned to be objective and analytical. To realisticly and objectively not be worried about the QB position for the Cardinals is to not be rational. It may work out fine. However, every objective, rational fan should be concerned by the facts.

RESPONSE: But taking Jeff Blake is okay. Or taking Collins or Garcia or Couch is okay. QBs come out of nowhere that is how it works in the NFL.
Warner never plays if Green doesnt get hurt. Brady never plays if Bledsoe doesn't get hurt. Get real. It happens all the time. Some guy who has not been a QB in the NFL breaks through. Take a look at the history of the NFL and QBs in the NFL especially recently.

 

[vikesfan]

QUOTE: I love the Cardinals. I have been a fan since I was in grade school. The Cardinals organization is in the same place Tampa Bay and the Saints were in several years ago. They were bad organizations that lost all the time and buit up that expectation in its players. They had some good players who played down to the level of their team mates. I see that in the Cardinals offensive line and particulalry with Leonard Davis. The number of sacks allowed last year and poor rushing numbers are a damning comment about the attitude and professionalism of that unit.

When the Cardinals some day in the future hopefully turn it around and become a winning organization it will be a complete surprise to every objective analytical person. As much as getting good talent matters it is even more important to change the organizational attitude. That change in attitude is not predictable. McGinnis came in as very positve and as a good motivator. He could not turn it around. Can Green turn it around? It is a completely unpredictable unknown. The only fans who will be saying I told you so when the Cardinals turn it around will be the people who every year predict that result. So they will be right but after being wrong for numerous years. If you are one of those kind of people you will probably be right some day.

RESPONSE: McGinnis was not a proven winner in the NFL. Green is a proven winner in the NFL. Nothing is guaranteed. How many SBs did Parcells win for NE and the NYJ. Zero! There are no guarantees. The odds are that Green like Parcells will succeed. Life is filled with playing the odds! Well the Cards have a better chance to succeed with a Green then with someone with a worse record!

QUOTE: Lastly, to blame the media because they think the Cardinals are bad is like shooting the messenger for delivering the message. They report what they see. Last in points scored and last in points allowed. Starting a QB with no real experience and with no viable alternative is extremely risky. The message they are delivering is the truth.

RESPONSE: Again not all the media is as down on the Cards and Josh as you. Again what the media says is guesswork they are no smarter then anyone here. They in fact now less about the Cards then true fans here do.

 

[BigRedMO]

I never said McCown was not going to be a good QB. I hope he is great. I said fans have reason to worry when the starting QB is unproven with no real viable alternative. I do not see King as an alternative. I believe you can be a fan of a team and still critically analyze their strengths, weaknesses and potential for success. I do not blindly approve every decision made by a coach/GM or owner. I got beyond blind loyalty and unquestioning faith many years ago.

I know a little about you. I think it is great that you are now a Cardinals fan. The Chargers became my second favorite team when Coryell went there to coach. I am no longer a fan of them though. If you have the endurance to stick around this team I think you will learn a lot about the history of the franchise with its very different management style and culture that is set by ownership. Many coaches have tried to change it. Coryell after giving the Cardinals 3 excellent years including two playoff appearances and one East title found out he was fired when Bidwill changed the locks on the locker room doors. The most successful Cardinal coach ever could not change Bidwill. Once again I hope Green can do it.

I do not understand your logic against taking the risk of a big name high dollar QB but you are willing to do that with a WR. The risk is the same. All I have to do is say David Boston or Bryant. In a capitalist system you are going to pay higher salaries to playerss with greater potential to be win games. That principal is the same at every position. The same year that Leaf was taken so was Manning. San Diego did not do its home work in analyzing Leaf. Psychological/character should be one of the most important areas examined. Once again look at Boston.

I do not understand the hatred of Plummer by some fans. He gave his all to try to make this team win. It did not work out. Wish him the best thank him for his effort and move on. Plummer was third highest rated QB in AFC last year with rating in the 90s. He is a guy who wants to win so bad he will take gambles to win. With Cardinals he had no running game except for 98. He had to try to win by himself which resulted in a one dimensional offense. Defenses find one dimensional offenses easy to defend against. People can bash Plumer all they want. He will be in the Pro Bowl this year and for many years to come.

 

[vikesfan]

QUOTE: I never said McCown was not going to be a good QB. I hope he is great. I said fans have reason to worry when the starting QB is unproven with no real viable alternative. I do not see King as an alternative. I believe you can be a fan of a team and still critically analyze their strengths, weaknesses and potential for success. I do not blindly approve every decision made by a coach/GM or owner. I got beyond blind loyalty and unquestioning faith many years ago.

RESPONSE: Well of course we don't know of Josh will be great. Just like we don't know if a QB we drafted in round 1 would be great or one of the FA QBs we signed would be great. All those FAs were let go by their teams cause they didn't believe in them anymore. We don't know if Josh will be good same goes for Berry, Fitz, Dockett etc. You just don't know even proven players one year lose it. Of course you should be worried to some extent about every move. The point I am making QBs like Josh have succeeded in the NFL. It's his year. We'll find out. You don't see King as an alternative but DG a great judge of QBs does. The King fan on here showed some very nice stats on the guy. Every QB you might have signed has question marks. Any coach you hire has question marks. The issue is Josh was the 3rd rated iirc QB in his class and was drafted 3rd has spent a couple years on the bench and is being trained and accepted by one of the best if not the best QB evaluators in the NFL. Sure some worry is appropriate as would be the case with anyone who was brought in, but it's not as bad a picture as you paint it.

Of course not every decision will work out. But the owner has attempted to change by hiring DG. DG has a track record of making good decisions. Not everything he does will work out. And when it doesn't he will attempt to correct the mistake.


QUOTE: I know a little about you. I think it is great that you are now a Cardinals fan. The Chargers became my second favorite team when Coryell went there to coach. I am no longer a fan of them though. If you have the endurance to stick around this team I think you will learn a lot about the history of the franchise with its very different management style and culture that is set by ownership.

RESPONSE: That style has changed. They hired a proven NFL winner and paid him millions. That is a point of depature for Bidwill. They drafted a kid with character issues in Dockett, another change. I understand your history with this team and owner has made you cautious but they are doing things differently now. Whether it works or not who knows. But it's not more of the same.

P S Thanks for the info on Coryell. Now I don't fell so bad I thought I was the only guy who followed a coach to his new team and cheered for them because of the coach.

 

[vikesfan]

It won't always be right about a player. Every media source had Leaf as either number 1 or 2 that year. Look at Akili Smith and McNown.

There is a difference with drafting a QB. A QB takes up a huge investment in terms of money and playing time and if he doesn't make it you keep trying with him cause of the investment. You don't do that with other players. QBs traditionally develop later and hence you could be developing him for another team in effect. That is the difference with taking a QB.



As for Plummer you can say whatever you want about him.
I didn't follow the Cards that closely when he was here, from what I saw he was a loser. He never made my upper echeleon of QBs and I though DEN made a bad move in getting him. We can debate the merits of any QB in the NFL. I think Warner is done. I am not a fan of Collins etc. I think Fiedler is a proven NFL winner. I think Culpepper rocks. Etc.

 

[BigRedMO]

My concern is McCown is untested and the backup was riding the bench with a team not exactly strong at that position. I would like to see a veteran who was a starter last year as the back up. That kind of player is more expensive than King is. So I am not sure the Cardinals have really changed their ways.

 

[vikesfan]

My concern is McCown is untested and the backup was riding the bench with a team not exactly strong at that position. I would like to see a veteran who was a starter last year as the back up. That kind of player is more expensive than King is. So I am not sure the Cardinals have really changed their ways.

Uh a starter from last year will not sit on the bench for the Cards. DG doesn't want Josh to feel challenged when Josh has a tough game or 2 he doesnt want the QB controversy to flare up. He wants Josh to feel secure.