Spurs @ Suns 11-14-18

[Cheesebeef]

Steve Wilks is the current head coach of the Arizona Cardinals. I thought the name was familiar the first time I saw it used here but wasn't sure because I knew the Cardinals just hired a new coach this season. So calling Igor "Wilks" really makes little to no sense considering Steve Wilks has been a head coach as long as Igor as, he just became one this year. Since the NFL season starts before the NBA season though you could say he's been at it a little longer. Igor has coached more games than Wilks at this point though. It's really a stupid reference.

I'm guessing anyone who's a Cardinals/Suns fan (which there are A LOT of on this forum) got this reference immediately. They're first year experiences have been very similar in the Valley. Both coaches of Phoenix sports teams... that are first year coaches... that have made both teams a laughingstock and a lot of people think they're in over their heads.

I don't know what's stupid about that.

If you're going to call Igor inexperienced and disappointing there are other ways to do it, like calling him "Hornacek". Suns fans would get that.

I think someone was talking about Koko by calling him Horny would be more confusing.

Sure, Horny eventually looked awful, but in his first year, he was perceived as anything but. I mean... we only have Koko's first year to judge and considering that, if you're making a comparison, their experiences in their respective first year have been polar opposites. In Horny's first year, everyone thought we were going to tank but were the surprise of the NBA and he got lauded for it. Meanwhile, in Koko's first year, he's taken a team that everyone thought was going to be better and has them somehow worse than last year and people are questioning if he can be a head coach.

 

[leclerc]

They shouldn't tank just yet. Play the guys who deserves playing time. Right now that's Bridges, Jackson, Holmes, JCrossover, Okobo, besides Booker, Canaan, Warren, Ayton (I love you big dummy). If the vets outplay them in practice and earn extended time then that's the young guys time to lose. Effort before age. Shoot straight.

BTW I live in Norway (Europe) so I don't get all the Arizona/Phoenix news. The little I watch of the NFL is mainly Buffalo Bills. They used to be good. Sounds familiar?

 

[Errntknght]

Normally, it is a good idea to have some savvy, old verterans on your team. They will help the youngsters learn how to play the NBA game. One of the key things they have in their memory banks is how hard you have to play to succeed in this league. I suppose the top ten per cent of the players can coast a bit now and then but everyone else has to play harder than they'd have believed was possible when they entered the league. The coaches and vets can tell the youngsters that until they're blue in the face but it not going to help because they don't even know what the words mean yet. The vets have to exemplify it so the kids can see it in action - get beaten by the vets.

The mind and body fiercely resist playing that hard - and they will reset the bar lower at every opportunity. What is a 'losing cultue'? It is a team whose collective bar has been lowered - and of course they don't know it. How do they find that out? By playing against teams who's bar is higher. Their minds and body will still rersist so getting the bar back where it belongs is a slow process. What does it mean to say 'playing down to opposition'? It simplu ,eams letting your bar down temporarily.

What happened with the Suns this year? The vets didn't do their job. Chandler probably because he'd been around the tanking team too long. Who knows about Ariza - perhaps off court problems were stressing him. Anderson has probably never played hard enough. The first game the guys were brimming with energy but from then on it has been clear that no one but Jackson was playing hard - and he was playing too hard. The three games the Suns have won are probably due to opponents playing down to their level - the Spurs certainly did, driving Pops crazy.

It does seem that the team is learning that they haven't been playing hard enough so we should see the bar creeping up - in fits and starts. Talent and experience and team coordination still matter so I wouldn't expect great things but they should get back to 'watchable'.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They shouldn't tank just yet. Play the guys who deserves playing time. Right now that's Bridges, Jackson, Holmes, JCrossover, Okobo, besides Booker, Canaan, Warren, Ayton (I love you big dummy). If the vets outplay them in practice and earn extended time then that's the young guys time to lose. Effort before age. Shoot straight.

BTW I live in Norway (Europe) so I don't get all the Arizona/Phoenix news. The little I watch of the NFL is mainly Buffalo Bills. They used to be good. Sounds familiar?

No tanking at all. Those days should be behind them. They need to try to win every game. They owe it to these young players.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No tanking at all. Those days should be behind them. They need to try to win every game. They owe it to these young players.

I agree but while I don't want to see us tank, I don't want to see us trade assets for marginal gain. If our players improve enough and that keeps us out of the top of the draft, great - but if we trade future picks or TJ Warren for a point guard so that we can win 30 games, I'm not going to be very happy.

 

[Mainstreet]

The word tank can get confusing. I mostly use it as synonymous with losing at this point in the season.

The Suns are not good enough to tank. That's why I used the word "unintentional" in my earlier post.

Now if they sit key players later in the season, it becomes tanking.

I wouldn't want the Suns to trade assets for marginal gain either unless someone really good becomes available at the trade deadline.

 

[BC867]

I agree but while I don't want to see us tank, I don't want to see us trade assets for marginal gain. If our players improve enough and that keeps us out of the top of the draft, great - but if we trade future picks or TJ Warren for a point guard so that we can win 30 games, I'm not going to be very happy.

But wouldn't a skilled distributing Point Guard make each of the other players better, which would in turn help our youngsters build a positive attitude? And confidence in themselves and the Suns?

The recent controversy about Booker passing to where players should be, then showing frustration when they're not, is not going to change the mindset of the team, which is low. Every Wing does not have the smooth shooting skill of Book or Warren. Any more than any ballplayer had the greatest natural swing of Ted Williams.

It is not about winning thirty games. It is about striving to be a more complete team. The longer we wait, the more immersed the Suns will be. Igor's strategy that everyone is a distributor is just not working. Any more than every Cardinal backfield player is a quarterback. Each has his own specialty. If he adds other skills from his position, great. But you need a lead Quarterback. And Point Guard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But wouldn't a skilled distributing Point Guard make each of the other players better, which would in turn help our youngsters build a positive attitude? And confidence in themselves and the Suns?

The recent controversy about Booker passing to where players should be, then showing frustration when they're not, is not going to change the mindset of the team, which is low. Every Wing does not have the smooth shooting skill of Book or Warren. Any more than any ballplayer had the greatest natural swing of Ted Williams.

It is not about winning thirty games. It is about striving to be a more complete team. The longer we wait, the more immersed the Suns will be. Igor's strategy that everyone is a distributor is just not working. Any more than every Cardinal backfield player is a quarterback. Each has his own specialty. If he adds other skills from his position, great. But you need a lead Quarterback. And Point Guard.

If he's also a legit weapon, sure. But I don't see any of those available. All I see are players that would make us marginally better. And I'm okay going after one of them too but only if it's on the cheap. No way would I give up our pick this season or TJ Warren or even Jackson for ANY PG that's been rumored to be available.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i'm not up for tanking. i don't want players out with fake injuries, i want them to try and win every game, and i don't want a short term fix.

but...
i would trade picks and a player now if a promising young pg was available (but one isn't)

i'd be content with the Suns losing most games this season, as long as they don't play ****

i'm conflicted about winning because it might mask the need to replace Igor as head coach. i believe replacing him with a strong leader is a priority for this young team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

i'm not up for tanking. i don't want players out with fake injuries, i want them to try and win every game, and i don't want a short term fix.

but...
i would trade picks and a player now if a promising young pg was available (but one isn't)

i'd be content with the Suns losing most games this season, as long as they don't play ****

i'm conflicted about winning because it might mask the need to replace Igor as head coach. i believe replacing him with a strong leader is a priority for this young team.

None of us like what we've seen but I just don't think we really know anything about Koko as a Head Coach so far. Maybe it's more than he can handle but we have too many holes, too many over the hill useless vets, too many kids to be anything but bad. But young players should get better over time so how this season progresses should tell us a lot about our new Coach. And firing him has to be a sure thing, we can't afford another rush to judgement black eye IMO.

 

[BC867]

i'm not up for tanking. i don't want players out with fake injuries, i want them to try and win every game, and i don't want a short term fix.

but...
i would trade picks and a player now if a promising young pg was available (but one isn't)

i'd be content with the Suns losing most games this season, as long as they don't play ****

i'm conflicted about winning because it might mask the need to replace Igor as head coach. i believe replacing him with a strong leader is a priority for this young team.

But no way Sarver is going to fire (and pay) Igor this early. His MO is to wait a few years, then start the cycle again. Just like he'll do with Jones as GM.

Sarver needs scapegoats. Hire cheap. Wait awhile. Do it again.

 

[leclerc]

But we're onto his tricks now. We've got you figured out, Mr Sarver! (Please sell the team and keep them in Phoenix.)